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Evolution is mathematically impossible

tas8831

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Au contraire. You have your magic, we have ours. :D
Ours has evidence.

Yours has numerologist's tales from the ancient middle east and dopey assertions premised on fake knowledge, like how you think the RLN is a grand design for it allows motor impulsed to go directly from the gut or the aorta to the larynx so we can make 'vocalizations' without the motor impulses coming from the brain. Even though that is not how the nervous system works.
 
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tas8831

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No "inquiring" again, I see.
As I know you have seen this before, since I have posted it more than a dozen times, I am sure you will ignore it or look for ways to dismiss it, but the rationale is quite simple - by using tested methods, we can reconstruct phylogenies.


I forget now who originally posted these on this forum, but I keep it in my archives because it offers a nice 'linear' progression of testing a methodology and then applying it.

The tested methodology:

Science 25 October 1991:
Vol. 254. no. 5031, pp. 554 - 558

Gene trees and the origins of inbred strains of mice

WR Atchley and WM Fitch

Extensive data on genetic divergence among 24 inbred strains of mice provide an opportunity to examine the concordance of gene trees and species trees, especially whether structured subsamples of loci give congruent estimates of phylogenetic relationships. Phylogenetic analyses of 144 separate loci reproduce almost exactly the known genealogical relationships among these 24 strains. Partitioning these loci into structured subsets representing loci coding for proteins, the immune system and endogenous viruses give incongruent phylogenetic results. The gene tree based on protein loci provides an accurate picture of the genealogical relationships among strains; however, gene trees based upon immune and viral data show significant deviations from known genealogical affinities.

======================

Science, Vol 255, Issue 5044, 589-592

Experimental phylogenetics: generation of a known phylogeny

DM Hillis, JJ Bull, ME White, MR Badgett, and IJ Molineux
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Although methods of phylogenetic estimation are used routinely in comparative biology, direct tests of these methods are hampered by the lack of known phylogenies. Here a system based on serial propagation of bacteriophage T7 in the presence of a mutagen was used to create the first completely known phylogeny. Restriction-site maps of the terminal lineages were used to infer the evolutionary history of the experimental lines for comparison to the known history and actual ancestors. The five methods used to reconstruct branching pattern all predicted the correct topology but varied in their predictions of branch lengths; one method also predicts ancestral restriction maps and was found to be greater than 98 percent accurate.

==================================

Science, Vol 264, Issue 5159, 671-677

Application and accuracy of molecular phylogenies

DM Hillis, JP Huelsenbeck, and CW Cunningham
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Molecular investigations of evolutionary history are being used to study subjects as diverse as the epidemiology of acquired immune deficiency syndrome and the origin of life. These studies depend on accurate estimates of phylogeny. The performance of methods of phylogenetic analysis can be assessed by numerical simulation studies and by the experimental evolution of organisms in controlled laboratory situations. Both kinds of assessment indicate that existing methods are effective at estimating phylogenies over a wide range of evolutionary conditions, especially if information about substitution bias is used to provide differential weightings for character transformations.



We can ASSUME that the results of an application of those methods have merit.


Application of the tested methodology:


Implications of natural selection in shaping 99.4% nonsynonymous DNA identity between humans and chimpanzees: Enlarging genus Homo

"Here we compare ≈90 kb of coding DNA nucleotide sequence from 97 human genes to their sequenced chimpanzee counterparts and to available sequenced gorilla, orangutan, and Old World monkey counterparts, and, on a more limited basis, to mouse. The nonsynonymous changes (functionally important), like synonymous changes (functionally much less important), show chimpanzees and humans to be most closely related, sharing 99.4% identity at nonsynonymous sites and 98.4% at synonymous sites. "



Mitochondrial Insertions into Primate Nuclear Genomes Suggest the Use of numts as a Tool for Phylogeny

"Moreover, numts identified in gorilla Supercontigs were used to test the human–chimp–gorilla trichotomy, yielding a high level of support for the sister relationship of human and chimpanzee."



A Molecular Phylogeny of Living Primates

"Once contentiously debated, the closest human relative of chimpanzee (Pan) within subfamily Homininae (Gorilla, Pan, Homo) is now generally undisputed. The branch forming the Homo andPanlineage apart from Gorilla is relatively short (node 73, 27 steps MP, 0 indels) compared with that of thePan genus (node 72, 91 steps MP, 2 indels) and suggests rapid speciation into the 3 genera occurred early in Homininae evolution. Based on 54 gene regions, Homo-Pan genetic distance range from 6.92 to 7.90×10−3 substitutions/site (P. paniscus and P. troglodytes, respectively), which is less than previous estimates based on large scale sequencing of specific regions such as chromosome 7[50]. "




Catarrhine phylogeny: noncoding DNA evidence for a diphyletic origin of the mangabeys and for a human-chimpanzee clade.

"The Superfamily Hominoidea for apes and humans is reduced to family Hominidae within Superfamily Cercopithecoidea, with all living hominids placed in subfamily Homininae; and (4) chimpanzees and humans are members of a single genus, Homo, with common and bonobo chimpanzees placed in subgenus H. (Pan) and humans placed in subgenus H. (Homo). It may be noted that humans and chimpanzees are more than 98.3% identical in their typical nuclear noncoding DNA and probably more than 99.5% identical in the active coding nucleotide sequences of their functional nuclear genes (Goodman et al., 1989, 1990). In mammals such high genetic correspondence is commonly found between sibling species below the generic level but not between species in different genera."

--------------------------------


I wonder if the math and evolution genius pathologist Andelin can calculate the odds of any of this...
Phony 'open-mindedness' and intellectualism is almost as rampant as the Dunning-Kruger effect is in the land of the self-righteous creationist.
 
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VirOptimus

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so prove me that human and banana share a common descent.

Firstly, science doesnt do "proof".

Secondly, Im not responsible for your education.

Thirdly, "share a common descent" is nonsesical. My guess is that you mean a common ancestor.
 
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VirOptimus

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so you have no evidence. thanks.

That you chose ignorance is not my problem. As you have ignored all evidence so far makes trying to educate you a fools errand.
 
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Speedwell

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its not logical to conclude that human and banana are related.
Why not? But you won't reveal your own logic to us, of course. You have been very careful in your time on this forum to keep your own views on the matter secret. You denounce evolution, refuse to learn anything about the content of the theory, all the while demanding that it be proved to you. But what you would replace it with you keep a deep, dark secret. "Design" you say, "It must have been designed." But you offer no explanation as to how that could have happened. I don't think you have an explanation; I don't think you care, so long is it was "not evolution." I put it to you that you are using "design" just like the Discovery Institute--as a Trojan Horse for some strange religious doctrine.
 
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inquiring mind

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For your handle, yes.

I note that you are still making false claims about evidence and the like. Pity that your 'inquiring' seems to stop when it comes to your middle eastern myths.
The important thing with evidence is always interpretation. Thankfully, with the so-called myth you refer to, mine came by way of my heart, long before I knew anything about the middle east or could cloud my mind with too much inquiry. I don’t seem to question with my heart like I do with my mind... it either feels right or it doesn’t.
 
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VirOptimus

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The important thing with evidence is always interpretation. Thankfully, with the so-called myth you refer to, mine came by way of my heart, long before I knew anything about the middle east or could cloud my mind with too much inquiry. I don’t seem to question with my heart like I do with my mind... it either feels right or it doesn’t.

Your heart is a muscle that pumps blood, not an organ to make informed descions with.
 
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inquiring mind

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Your heart is a muscle that pumps blood, not an organ to make informed descions with.
Of course I mean an inner feeling... do you know what I'm referring to?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Your heart is a muscle that pumps blood, not an organ to make informed descions with.

The heart makes many important decisions. It just doesn't inform the brain very often.
 
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