Evolution is mathematically impossible

[Subduction Zone]

I'll concede that some of my ideas are so far ahead of their time that they seem foolish to most (although there are some that get it).

Please, don't make up stuff. You can't support any of your beliefs. Scientists can support their beliefs. If you could support your claims you would not constantly look foolish.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Please, don't make up stuff. You can't support any of your beliefs. Scientists can support their beliefs. If you could support your claims you would not constantly look foolish.

You don't know what my beliefs are because we never get that far in our discussions. It's reminiscent of the oft suggested "We need to have a conversation about"... this or that, but as soon as something is said that is offensive to someone the conversation gets nasty, and then ends.

For example, imagine the outcry if I suggested that one key to success is to do more than you are being paid to do, and to support your employer rather than entering into the usual conspiracies hatched by disgruntled co-workers.

In fact it should appear in this thread very soon.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You don't know what my beliefs are because we never get that far in our discussions. It's reminiscent of the oft suggested "We need to have a conversation about"... this or that, but as soon as something is said that is offensive to someone the conversation gets nasty, and then ends.

For example, imagine the outcry if I suggested that one key to success is to do more than you are being paid to do, and to support your employer rather than entering into the usual conspiracies hatched by disgruntled co-workers.

In fact it should appear in this thread very soon.

Then perhaps don't you think it might be a good idea to begin to support your claims?

As to how employees should act I do agree. Of course a "My company right or wrong" approach does not work either, but if one wants to get ahead in the world of business performing above and beyond what is expected of you usually, but not always, is amply rewarded. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but sooner or later a person performing that way will be appreciated.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Then perhaps don't you think it might be a good idea to begin to support your claims?

Some of 'claims' are really just ideas.

As to how employees should act I do agree. Of course a "My company right or wrong" approach does not work either, but if one wants to get ahead in the world of business performing above and beyond what is expected of you usually, but not always, is amply rewarded. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but sooner or later a person performing that way will be appreciated.

Now if we can just get more people to buy into that.

I have driven a Mercury Grand Marquis (2) for twenty years, but of course must have service done from time to time. When needed I drive a 'loaner'. The loaners are usually mid to small sized cars that we're all familiar with. After driving my Merc for so long I was shocked, angered, saddened, and disappointed (really) at the cheap, plastic, drab, uncomfortable, and downright ugly interior of these cars, including a Buick Park Avenue.

That said if I worked for any of these car companies I would be the best designer or assembler of these pieces of crap the company has ever employed.

As I write this I am driving a Chevy Cobalt LS as a loaner. The seat is barely more comfortable than an old fashioned wooden straight back chair. The interior is more like a jail cell than an automobile. You wouldn't believe it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Some of 'claims' are really just ideas.



Now if we can just get more people to buy into that.

I have driven a Mercury Grand Marquis (2) for twenty years, but of course must have service done from time to time. When needed I drive a 'loaner'. The loaners are usually mid to small sized cars that we're all familiar with. After driving my Merc for so long I was shocked, angered, saddened, and disappointed (really) at the cheap, plastic, drab, uncomfortable, and downright ugly interior of these cars, including a Buick Park Avenue.

That said if I worked for any of these car companies I would be the best designer or assembler of these pieces of crap the company has ever employed.

As I write this I am driving a Chevy Cobalt LS as a loaner. The seat is barely more comfortable than an old fashioned wooden straight back chair. The interior is more like a jail cell than an automobile. You wouldn't believe it.

Hey! Don't put down wooden seated chairs. A properly made one is quite comfortable. My Dad used to sell some very nice ones and would tell people that when he sold them. And he was right.

And yes, there is often a race to the bottom when it comes to quality. Car companies try to get away with the cheapest construction possible at times.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Hey! Don't put down wooden seated chairs. A properly made one is quite comfortable. My Dad used to sell some very nice ones and would tell people that when he sold them. And he was right.

And yes, there is often a race to the bottom when it comes to quality. Car companies try to get away with the cheapest construction possible at times.

At the very least they could have provided a comfortable seat for the driver.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

All I have to see is "mathematically impossible" and I can dismiss it.

Since we know that evolution has happened, any claim that it's impossible cannot be supported mathematically or not.

That depends on how critically one thinks about it. For example how many evolutionary changes are needed for an organism to develop, mature, age, and die.

 

[Speedwell]

That depends on how critically one thinks about it. For example how many evolutionary changes are needed for an organism to develop, mature, age, and die.

A single organism? None. Single organisms don't evolve.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A single organism? None. Single organisms don't evolve.

So if ten thousand similar organisms evolve no single organism among them actually evolves? If so how can any evolve if no one can evolve?

 

[TBDude65]

These mathematical "proofs" never seem to get published by reputable sources. Wonder why?

 

[Tom 1]

If creationists followed that, the entire C/E 'debate' would disappear...

What would you do with the extra free time? Take up a new hobby?

 

[Speedwell]

So if ten thousand similar organisms evolve no single organism among them actually evolves. If so how can any evolve if no one can evolve?

Because each offspring is slightly different from its parent(s). That's where evolutionary change comes in: the difference between parents and offspring. No evolutionary change takes place to the organism itself during its life.

 

[Ophiolite]

So if ten thousand similar organisms evolve no single organism among them actually evolves. If so how can any evolve if no one can evolve?

Populations evolve, not the individual. In eukaryotes (all the plants and animals) there are germ cells (ova and sperm) and somatic cells (the rest). Mutations in the somatic cells can effect the individual, but that is not evolution. Mutations in the germ cells do not effect the individual, but any offspring are potentially changed - that change is evolution.

I am reasonably sure this has been explained to you before. I am reasonably sure it will have to be explained to you again.

Edit: cross-posted with Speedwell

 

[OldWiseGuy]

These mathematical "proofs" never seem to get published by reputable sources. Wonder why?

Not proof, but reasonable assumption.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Because each offspring is slightly different from its parent(s). That's where evolutionary change comes in: the difference between parents and offspring. No evolutionary change takes place to the organism itself during its life.

How many evolutionary changes must (have occurred) to produce an elephant from a single celled organism. It seems to me that just factoring generational mutations would slow the whole evolutionary process to a snails pace with larger animals. How does the evolutionary timescale account for this?

 

[TBDude65]

Not proof, but reasonable assumption.

What "reasonable assumption" do you refer?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What "reasonable assumption" do you refer?

For example how does evolution explain growth?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

For example how does evolution explain growth?

That's not a 'reasonable assumption'. That's just you asking a question.

 

[TBDude65]

For example how does evolution explain growth?

Like...cell growth? Are you asking why a cell cycle was selected for?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Like...cell growth? Are you asking why a cell cycle was selected for?

Not why, how.