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Evolution is just a theory!

Colter

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Hebrews talks about the faith of people we read about in the Bible. We were talking about Matthew ch 24. Here Jesus was asked two questions. When would the temple be tore down, the other question is when will the end of this era be. He was answering both questions at the same time. So some people get confused if He is talking about the events in 70 AD when the temple in Jerusalem was tore down or if He is talking about what has yet to take place in what we now know is the Church age, or the age of Grace. This is when we are told that at the end of this age it will be as it was in the days of Noah. "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark," So for some the world will continue to look normal to them right up to the end.
Any theology, which condemns people for not being part of the club, because they simply can not reconcile the story with reality, is a theology that is morally bankrupt.

Many Christians believe, that if you are not part of their religion, you are doomed, no matter the quality of life an atheist, muslim, hindu or non Christian may lead. All the while, if the serial killer finds Jesus on death row, they can be saved.

Sorry, this reeks of injustice and immorality.


* There was the religion OF Jesus, exemplified in the original gospel of "the kingdom of heaven."

* There is sect divided Christianity, a religion ABOUT Jesus which we are erroneously taught he founded.

* What is fundamental to the human experience is seeking God with all of your heart, salvation by faith and the responsibility that comes with it.
 
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AV1611VET

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God is a God of Absolute Justice. That is why Jesus had to go to Calvary to pay the price for our sin. A price that was to high for us to pay. Our debt is marked paid in full because Jesus pays that sin debt for us. God's Justice will prevail.
Indeed.

Because of God's justice (getting what you deserve), we can have grace & mercy.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

God declared us "guilty," then took the penalty Himself.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Indeed.

Because of God's justice (getting what you deserve), we can have grace & mercy.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

God declared us "guilty," then took the penalty Himself.
That is why we read about the Elders that throw their crowns before the throne. There are five crowns: they are the imperishable crown, the crown of rejoicing, the crown of righteousness, the crown of glory, and the crown of life. Rev4 "10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
 
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mickiio

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You do realize I have prayed before, and do so frequently, yes? The primary thing I pray for is for belief (as a little kid, I did it for some other things, like finding a lost toy). For context though, I was always a highly skeptical child, and that was my way of covering "all the bases".
Who do you pray to? If you don't believe in Him why would you pray to Him? Do you think He'd notice?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Who do you pray to? If you don't believe in Him why would you pray to Him? Do you think He'd notice?
The problem is in knowing how to pray. People think God can do anything, but He has to remain faithful to Himself. He is who He is and one thing is for sure, we did not invent Him. We do not control and manipulate Him. WE have to learn what is His will for us to have, then we can pray according to His will for us. It stands to reason that He is willing to give us what He wants to give us.

The next thing to understand is that we actually have a covenant relationship with God. He is the one that comes to us with an offer and it is up to us if we want to accept or reject His offer to enter into a covenant relationship with Him. If we read in the Bible every promise from God has a condition. We have our part that we have to do and if we do our part then you can be sure that God will keep His part of the deal. For example, lets pick something at random. People like to quote: "I AM the GOD that HEALETH Thee" We can run that into google and look up that passage.

"If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you." Ex15:26

This is a lot of requirements: 1) Listen to God, 2) do what is right in His eyes, 3) pay attention to His commands, 4) keep all his decrees. IF we do all of this then His promise to us is that; "I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians". Then He says: "I Am the LORD that HEALETH the". So we can see why health is so difficult.

The point is all the promises of God come with conditons. If we want God to do His part then we have to do our part of the covenant. We can read the Bible, look to see what God wants and has for us. Then we do our part and He will do His part.
 
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ecco

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ecco:
God's Creation lead to God's Great Flood.
Rejection of God led to the Great Flood.
Didn't you read the Memo?
That's like saying Boeing's Great Plane killed all the passengers.
It wasn't Boeing's fault. It was pilot error.

God created the universe and the people and knew when he created them that they would fail. In other words, your god is Boeing and the Pilot.


ecco:
That probably wasn't very comforting to the mothers who saw their daughters buried alive in a mud slide.
Those mothers were atheists. Nothing about God's creation is comforting to an atheist.

Intentionally creating humanity so that he could destroy it is comforting to you? That's beyond sick.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Sorry, this reeks of injustice and immorality.
That was exactly my point. The world is filled with injustice and immorality. The question is: What is God doing about it. Your answer is that no one is doing anything about it. As they say your either a part of the problem or a part of the cure, but you can not be both. You can not play on both sides of the track, you have to choose one or the other.
 
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bhsmte

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That was exactly my point. The world is filled with injustice and immorality. The question is: What is God doing about it. Your answer is that no one is doing anything about it. As they say your either a part of the problem or a part of the cure, but you can not be both. You can not play on both sides of the track, you have to choose one or the other.

We were talking about whether Christian theology was moral and I made my statement in that regard.
 
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Meowzltov

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However, the bible strongly implies that nonbelief is the major mechanism of getting into hell.
It depends on how you interpret it. "THE important thing is to keep God's commandments." 1 Corinthians 7:19
 
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Meowzltov

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Ah yes, the overly long, convoluted means of teaching people very basic concepts. A great story doesn't necessarily make for a great teaching method.
Again, it is the highest form of literature because it speaks to the whole person. As an intuitive, it is definitely more helpful for me in understanding than well reasoned prose. I reason slightly better than average, but it's just not my best suit. I find reasoning to be boring, stiff, colorless, and one dimensional. I simply can't relate to it. I reason when necessary (and have great difficulty tolerating others who reason badly). I'm staring at my library, and only about 1/5 of the books are prose.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Again, it is the highest form of literature because it speaks to the whole person. As an intuitive, it is definitely more helpful for me in understanding than well reasoned prose. I reason slightly better than average, but it's just not my best suit. I find reasoning to be boring, stiff, colorless, and one dimensional. I simply can't relate to it. I reason when necessary (and have great difficulty tolerating others who reason badly). I'm staring at my library, and only about 1/5 of the books are prose.
-_- highest form of literature in your opinion. I find the constant vagueness in regards to important concepts in the bible to be not only frustrating, but morally objectionable since the book is supposed to be "a guide to salvation". Sure, I don't enjoy reading the manual that tells me how to put together the table I ordered, but I certainly appreciate it the more concise and clear it is.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Who do you pray to? If you don't believe in Him why would you pray to Him? Do you think He'd notice?
No specific who most of the time, just a generalized prayer to anything willing to listen. Any religion that advocates some sort of prayer suggests that deities or representatives of them will notice. Even though I don't believe they exist, I see no reason not to try to attract their attention so that they can prove me wrong.
 
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Meowzltov

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I find the constant vagueness in regards to important concepts in the bible to be not only frustrating
Only because you are a rational, non-intuitive thinker.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Only because you are a rational, non-intuitive thinker.
Intuition is a source of error. Everyone interprets the bible a little differently, thanks in part to its vagueness. This is an unacceptable flaw that has lead to an enormous amount of infighting amongst Christians.
 
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AV1611VET

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Intuition is a source of error. Everyone interprets the bible a little differently, thanks in part to its vagueness. This is an unacceptable flaw that has lead to an enormous amount of infighting amongst Christians.
And we have scientists to thank for driving wedges between everything, don't we?
 
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Colter

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Intuition is a source of error. Everyone interprets the bible a little differently, thanks in part to its vagueness. This is an unacceptable flaw that has lead to an enormous amount of infighting amongst Christians.
The Bible is a layer cake of evolved and revealed religion, human speculation and conjecture, redaction, editing, revision, refrain.
 
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Meowzltov

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Intuition is a source of error. Everyone interprets the bible a little differently, thanks in part to its vagueness. This is an unacceptable flaw that has lead to an enormous amount of infighting amongst Christians.
A person can intuit incorrectly. A person can reason incorrectly as well. It drives me nuts when people reason badly. But bad intuition cannot be blamed on intuition as it is supposed to be, just as bad reasoning cannot be blamed on reasoning as it is supposed to be.
 
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PsychoSarah

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And we have scientists to thank for driving wedges between everything, don't we?
No, pretty sure there was infighting long before scientific findings conflicted with the bible. Lutheranism, the conflict between the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches... they come to mind.
 
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AV1611VET

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No, pretty sure there was infighting long before scientific findings conflicted with the bible. Lutheranism, the conflict between the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches... they come to mind.
It started in the Garden of Eden, when the Serpent got Eve to consider what she was looking at from a purely empirical viewpoint.
 
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PsychoSarah

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It started in the Garden of Eden, when the Serpent got Eve to consider what she was looking at from a purely empirical viewpoint.
Hard to make a moral based decision without the knowledge of good and evil.
 
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