Evolution is an ancient Creation dogma

lifepsyop

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In 1803, before Charles Darwin was even born, his grandfather Erasmus Darwin published a lengthy poem celebrating the beauty of the evolutionary history of all life on earth...
Here's a small excerpt from "The Temple of Nature":
http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Darwin/temple1.html

"ORGANIC LIFE beneath the shoreless waves
Was born and nursed in Ocean's pearly caves;
First forms minute, unseen by spheric glass,
Move on the mud, or pierce the watery mass;
These, as successive generations bloom
New powers acquire, and larger limbs assume;
Whence countless groups of vegetation spring,
And breathing realms of fin, and feet, and wing.
"

Hmmmm... I thought Evolution was all about objective science and reason prevailing over faith-based dogmas?
How did these guys already 'know' Evolution was true *before* the advent of scientific theories supposedly demonstrating it? A feeling, a hunch, an educated guess?

Actually the Darwins and other students of the Enlightenment were simply resurrecting an ancient dogma.

Briefly stated, this ancient dogma is the "alchemical" view of nature.... a thoroughly mystical belief that nature itself has the power to transform itself from an initial primitive state into all the diverse physical forms we see today.

"Proposals that one type of animal, even humans, could descend from other types of animals, are known to go back to the first pre-Socratic Greek philosophers. Anaximander of Miletus (c. 610 – 546 BC) proposed that the first animals lived in water, during a wet phase of the Earth's past, and that the first land-dwelling ancestors of mankind must have been born in water..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought#Antiquity

Evolution is a hidden dogma, a mystical, quasi-religious creation narrative that was held to faithfully by the very progenitors of our modern scientific institutions. The 'learned societies' of the 17th-19th centuries, the students of the Enlightenment that propelled the ancient "nature as creator" dogma into the modern age. And for all the scientific progress these societies and institutions have made, the essential idea of Evolution (Nature as creator) was never and will never be up for debate within them.

The Evolutionary creation story - the unfolding of all of the diversity of nature by the intrinsic power of nature itself - will simply be revised and refined as knowledge increases. But that fundamental belief in Evolution is not allowed tobe questioned. It would be like Christian institutions questioning whether the Bible is inspired by God. The very question negates the assumption the institution is built on.

In some cases, we'll actually see this dogma freely admitted. Take modern "Origin of Life" (abiogenesis) studies for example. Within our scientific institutions, it is simply taken for granted that IT HAPPENED. "Nature created life, we just need to figure out how.". Only the HOW is to be questioned, but never IF it happened. Here we have this ancient dogma exposed for all to see. And we see that the scientific institutions are not even equipped to question that central dogma that nature is the creator of all things.

It's not hard to see... this shouldn't even be controversial if we're being honest with ourselves... It's just a hard pill to swallow for people who were sold flimsy "science vs. religion" mythology all their lives by these same authorities.
 

Johnny4ChristJesus

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In 1803, before Charles Darwin was even born, his grandfather Erasmus Darwin published a lengthy poem celebrating the beauty of the evolutionary history of all life on earth...
Here's a small excerpt from "The Temple of Nature":
http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Darwin/temple1.html

"ORGANIC LIFE beneath the shoreless waves
Was born and nursed in Ocean's pearly caves;
First forms minute, unseen by spheric glass,
Move on the mud, or pierce the watery mass;
These, as successive generations bloom
New powers acquire, and larger limbs assume;
Whence countless groups of vegetation spring,
And breathing realms of fin, and feet, and wing.
"

Hmmmm... I thought Evolution was all about objective science and reason prevailing over faith-based dogmas?
How did these guys already 'know' Evolution was true *before* the advent of scientific theories supposedly demonstrating it? A feeling, a hunch, an educated guess?

Actually the Darwins and other students of the Enlightenment were simply resurrecting an ancient dogma.

Briefly stated, this ancient dogma is the "alchemical" view of nature.... a thoroughly mystical belief that nature itself has the power to transform itself from an initial primitive state into all the diverse physical forms we see today.

"Proposals that one type of animal, even humans, could descend from other types of animals, are known to go back to the first pre-Socratic Greek philosophers. Anaximander of Miletus (c. 610 – 546 BC) proposed that the first animals lived in water, during a wet phase of the Earth's past, and that the first land-dwelling ancestors of mankind must have been born in water..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought#Antiquity

Evolution is a hidden dogma, a mystical, quasi-religious creation narrative that was held to faithfully by the very progenitors of our modern scientific institutions. The 'learned societies' of the 17th-19th centuries, the students of the Enlightenment that propelled the ancient "nature as creator" dogma into the modern age. And for all the scientific progress these societies and institutions have made, the essential idea of Evolution (Nature as creator) was never and will never be up for debate within them.

The Evolutionary creation story - the unfolding of all of the diversity of nature by the intrinsic power of nature itself - will simply be revised and refined as knowledge increases. But that fundamental belief in Evolution is not allowed tobe questioned. It would be like Christian institutions questioning whether the Bible is inspired by God. The very question negates the assumption the institution is built on.

In some cases, we'll actually see this dogma freely admitted. Take modern "Origin of Life" (abiogenesis) studies for example. Within our scientific institutions, it is simply taken for granted that IT HAPPENED. "Nature created life, we just need to figure out how.". Only the HOW is to be questioned, but never IF it happened. Here we have this ancient dogma exposed for all to see. And we see that the scientific institutions are not even equipped to question that central dogma that nature is the creator of all things.

It's not hard to see... this shouldn't even be controversial if we're being honest with ourselves... It's just a hard pill to swallow for people who were sold flimsy "science vs. religion" mythology all their lives by these same authorities.

I'm a little confused about what you are trying to say. Are you just pointing out that the anti-God theories that are devoid of real science have always existed?
 
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lifepsyop

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I'm a little confused about what you are trying to say. Are you just pointing out that the anti-God theories that are devoid of real science have always existed?

Not just general theories, but a specific ancient belief in an intrinsic property of nature which acts as a transforming agent, giving rise to all of life from a primeval state.
 
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Brightmoon

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That's not surprising considering he was a student of the Enlightenment.
and there was a good reason that they called it the enlightenment.
 
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pitabread

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How did these guys already 'know' Evolution was true *before* the advent of scientific theories supposedly demonstrating it?

The idea of biological evolution certainly predates Darwin's time. Darwin's big contribution was identifying one of the mechanisms (natural selection) by which evolution operates.

The Evolutionary creation story - the unfolding of all of the diversity of nature by the intrinsic power of nature itself - will simply be revised and refined as knowledge increases. But that fundamental belief in Evolution is not allowed tobe questioned.

The latter isn't true at all. You're more than welcome to question the validity of evolution. The problem is that nobody has come up with a scientific alternative that has the same level of explanatory power. Anyone who could do that would probably win a Nobel Prize.

In fact, this is the big problem with creationism. For all the claims about fully-formed life forms being created, nobody has ever put forth a mechanism by which such a thing is possible. If you can come up with that, in the same manner Darwin came up with natural selection, then maybe you'll be as famous as him. 150 years from now people will be debating your ideas.
 
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Brightmoon

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The idea of biological evolution certainly predates Darwin's time. Darwin's big contribution was identifying one of the mechanisms (natural selection) by which evolution operates.



The latter isn't true at all. You're more than welcome to question the validity of evolution. The problem is that nobody has come up with a scientific alternative that has the same level of explanatory power. Anyone who could do that would probably win a Nobel Prize in biology.

In fact, this is the big problem with creationism. For all the claims about fully-formed life forms being created, nobody has ever put forth a mechanism by which such a thing is possible. If you can come up with that, in the same manner Darwin came up with natural selection, then maybe you'll be as famous as him and 150 years from now people will be debating your ideas.
And they’d win that Nobel in biology even though there is no Nobel for biology ;)
 
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Heissonear

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In 1803, before Charles Darwin was even born, his grandfather Erasmus Darwin published a lengthy poem celebrating the beauty of the evolutionary history of all life on earth...
Here's a small excerpt from "The Temple of Nature":
http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Darwin/temple1.html

"ORGANIC LIFE beneath the shoreless waves
Was born and nursed in Ocean's pearly caves;
First forms minute, unseen by spheric glass,
Move on the mud, or pierce the watery mass;
These, as successive generations bloom
New powers acquire, and larger limbs assume;
Whence countless groups of vegetation spring,
And breathing realms of fin, and feet, and wing.
"

Hmmmm... I thought Evolution was all about objective science and reason prevailing over faith-based dogmas?
How did these guys already 'know' Evolution was true *before* the advent of scientific theories supposedly demonstrating it? A feeling, a hunch, an educated guess?

Actually the Darwins and other students of the Enlightenment were simply resurrecting an ancient dogma.

Briefly stated, this ancient dogma is the "alchemical" view of nature.... a thoroughly mystical belief that nature itself has the power to transform itself from an initial primitive state into all the diverse physical forms we see today.

"Proposals that one type of animal, even humans, could descend from other types of animals, are known to go back to the first pre-Socratic Greek philosophers. Anaximander of Miletus (c. 610 – 546 BC) proposed that the first animals lived in water, during a wet phase of the Earth's past, and that the first land-dwelling ancestors of mankind must have been born in water..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought#Antiquity

Evolution is a hidden dogma, a mystical, quasi-religious creation narrative that was held to faithfully by the very progenitors of our modern scientific institutions. The 'learned societies' of the 17th-19th centuries, the students of the Enlightenment that propelled the ancient "nature as creator" dogma into the modern age. And for all the scientific progress these societies and institutions have made, the essential idea of Evolution (Nature as creator) was never and will never be up for debate within them.

The Evolutionary creation story - the unfolding of all of the diversity of nature by the intrinsic power of nature itself - will simply be revised and refined as knowledge increases. But that fundamental belief in Evolution is not allowed tobe questioned. It would be like Christian institutions questioning whether the Bible is inspired by God. The very question negates the assumption the institution is built on.

In some cases, we'll actually see this dogma freely admitted. Take modern "Origin of Life" (abiogenesis) studies for example. Within our scientific institutions, it is simply taken for granted that IT HAPPENED. "Nature created life, we just need to figure out how.". Only the HOW is to be questioned, but never IF it happened. Here we have this ancient dogma exposed for all to see. And we see that the scientific institutions are not even equipped to question that central dogma that nature is the creator of all things.

It's not hard to see... this shouldn't even be controversial if we're being honest with ourselves... It's just a hard pill to swallow for people who were sold flimsy "science vs. religion" mythology all their lives by these same authorities.
Very information and written post.

You are on target presenting the central theme of Evolution that it is viewed as a natural power to produce diversity of life. And all who have bought in on this natural power and deemed processes.
 
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John Bowen

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Quantum physics proves nothing just evolves just on it own. 80 yrs of experiments proven it. What does it state beyond all the jargon How a scientist thinks can control the very atoms in a experiment .The Big Bang theory is also been proven wrong cause scientists have discovered much to there surprise the universe is expanding at a accelerated rate.So where is that energy coming from after that initial explosion .A Catholic priest came up with the theory to try to explain the church doctrine that the Earth was created in 6 days it has no scientific basis .Put educational institutions keeping feeding to kids to deny how creation really works.
 
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Heissonear

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Evolutionists should be honest with themselves how they accepted the theory of Evolution without all information necessary.

Most would say by default, due to the less likely alternatives.

The other parts are being ruled by the five senses, and through the senses having no detection of a God to turn to.

But the news is out, it is proven by scientific enquiry of fossils that evolution is based on conjecture. Yes, based on faith.

I faced such in times past, as a godless (no God in this world) naturalists (all things of the past and present can be accounted for by natural processes).

Walking by conjecture in Earth sciences made me open minded to other ways of things coming about.
 
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pitabread

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Interesting you say that evolution is an "anti-god theory", when most theists accept the theory.

It's especially interesting that so many creationists set their own beliefs up for falsification by requiring scientific findings to be false. When in the end, scientific findings are simply the results of investigation of our own universe. In effect, creationists require a deceptive universe for their beliefs to be true. I don't understand that mindset.
 
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