If there is nothing on the table and something appears on it, like a knife or a spoon or food or anything you might can imagine, what will your conclusion be? It was there all along?
does that make sense?
If there is a void and then gets filled with a universe, do you really think it was always there? Does cars pop in to existence because they were always there or do they get manufactured?
As I said, an invalid concept. There is nothing on the table? But there is a table! There is a void to be filled? Where can there be a "there" to be filled, when there is nothing?
I know that this is difficult to "make sense", and I can understand why you are confused about that. It is not easy to understand, but please bear with me and I´ll try to explain.
"If there is nothing on the table and something appears on it, like a knife or a spoon or food or anything you might can imagine, what will your conclusion be?"
This does not happen. And this is not what you really imagine when you say that "atheists believe in something from nothing."
This is not "nothing". You imagine an existing enviroment... and it is this enviroment with alls its laws and rules and behaviour pattern that prevents spoons from appearing on a table.
This is what human commonly think when they imagine the term "nothing". They think of something, they imagine this something somewhere... and then negate it. It is "not there". But this concept of "nothing" can only work within "something". You need concepts to exist. You need laws to describe them. You need a "there" to check if your thing is there or not.
Really "nothing" is void of all these things. There is no "there". There are no ideas. And... carefull, now it get´s really wierd... there are not rules that say "if this thing does not exist, it cannot exist".
Really "nothing" cannot exist. There is, ehm, nothing to prevent it from being something. Yes, this is against logic... but there is also no logic in nothing.
So for the sake of human sanity, let´s stop calling that wierd idea "nothing" and give it a name. I call it "chaos".
What is the reason for existence, are you suggesting that something that is not in existence wants to be in existence and then just appears?
Everything in this reality is based on time, but it is written in
Revelation 22 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Again, this is too far based on simplistic human concepts. If not God, then Not-God and Not-God is nothing.
What is the reason for existence, you ask. There is no reason for "existence". Existence IS. If a reason for existence would exist, it would... read that! EXIST! It would already be "existence".
So even the universe must have a beginning..... either it came in existence from nothing for no specific reason or came in existence because there is a powerful being who desired to create it the way He wanted it to be and to prevent chaos made laws, etc.....
The universe had a beginning. But that does not mean it "came from nothing" or "it came from a powerful being that wanted it to be". False dichotomy. It came from "something different".
And now consider that the question "what is the reason for that 'something' to exist?" can also be asked for this powerful creator: "why does a being that
thinks like humans exist as the cause of all".
"God is uncaused", so the Christians claim. Well, "chaos" is also uncaused. "God is timeless" - so is "chaos". "God is omnipotent" - so is "chaos". "God is infinite" - so is "chaos". But chaos does not care for the human sex life or the hygiene practices of stars. It does not care at all. It is not a human to be able to "care".
We do not differ on "something" vs. "nothing"... we differ on the specifics of "something".
...to prevent chaos made laws...
I have to comment on that again, because I fear that you did not read or understand my last post: what we call "laws of nature" is not "made". The laws of nature are not there to prescribe certain behaviours to things, but to describe the way things behave.
THE LAWS OF NATURE ARE DESCRIPTIVE, NOT PRESCRIPTIVE.
Again I have to ask you: imagine what a cube would have looked like before God decreed that it should have six sides and three dimensions?
Science can only observe that what is in the present, cannot observe what happened in the past or what will happen in the future....therefore many fairy tales are told which makes up nice stories to tell the kids, they actually start the stories with, "One time , long, long, long, long, long, long ago there was a dinosaur with green skin, beautiful blue eyes and nicely groomed teeth....his name was T-rex!" it almost sounds as if someone observed this dinosaur, it is not a fact, but more fiction derived from bones found in the ground. There is no way to test the reliability of the dating methods used by scientist, do we have anything which is a million years old that is not dated by modern day dating methods to be used as a marker to test the reliability?
You do know what forensic evidence is? Roughly, we could define it as "things we expect to find now if something specific happened in the past".
Forensic sciences uses these things to make conclusions: "If we have found this certain thing now, we can conclude that this specific something DID happen in the past."
If there is a fingerprint on a weapon, it can be concluded that a human held it in the past.
And you can do it with directly observing the past!
The natural sciences that tell us about dinosaurs use the same technics... because they work!
Of course, they are not fool-proof. The real reason for the fingerprint on the weapon could be that Iggy the Magic Elf painted it on with his magic fingerpaints. I guess you can imagine why science excludes such scenarious? They focus on things that are within human experience.
So the real "fairy tale" is told by the people who claim: "You cannot trust the evidence! It was completely different! It was different in such a way that it looks exactly as science would expect it, but in fact it was different! And I know that because I have "experienced" the real cause, and have read it in an old book."
