Evolution Goes (Retro)Viral

[JohnEmmett]

It might be better if you asked whether the cosmos originated by natural processes or whether it was made by a supernatural creator.

The Hopi call him the Creator

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Just out of interest, how do you interpret the fossils of the australopithecines (Australopithecus afarensis, A. africanus, Paranthropus robustus, A. sediba, etc.) and the pre-sapiens members of the genus Homo (H. habilis, H. erectus, H. ergaster, H. antecessor, H. heidelbergensis, H. neanderthalis, etc.)?

Do you accept that the later species of Australopithecus evolved from the earlier species and that the pre-sapiens species of Homo evolved from the australopithecines, or do you think that all the species of Australopithecus and Homo were created as brand-new adult hominins?

No complete skeletons have been discovered. With one where a bone was discovered which was identified as a part human, when it was analysed, it turned out to be a bone from a pig. I think there was another one where a jawbone was found, and a whole part human was created out of it, but later found that it was the jawbone of an non human ape. The Pitdown man, celebrated as a great example of a part human ancestor, was later exposed as a total hoax and a fraud. I think there was a skeleton found of what was thought to be a Neanderthal man, but upon closer examination, it more likely appeared to be a normal man with advanced arthritis. In all, there is insufficient evidence that any of these sub-humans actually existed.

 

[JohnEmmett]

In all, there is insufficient evidence

There is evidence of modern humans from millions of years ago

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

No complete skeletons have been discovered. With one where a bone was discovered which was identified as a part human, when it was analysed, it turned out to be a bone from a pig. I think there was another one where a jawbone was found, and a whole part human was created out of it, but later found that it was the jawbone of an non human ape. The Pitdown man, celebrated as a great example of a part human ancestor, was later exposed as a total hoax and a fraud. I think there was a skeleton found of what was thought to be a Neanderthal man, but upon closer examination, it more likely appeared to be a normal man with advanced arthritis. In all, there is insufficient evidence that any of these sub-humans actually existed.

That's... that's all just absolutely and completely wrong.

There have been multiple and many skeletons of earlier humans, going all the way back to Australopithecus, and the ones that you are citing are known hoaxes and frauds that really do nothing to disprove that humans evolved from earlier forms.

So, you're either lying here or are very much just horribly misinformed about evolution. I pray it's the latter.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It might be better if you asked whether the cosmos originated by natural processes or whether it was made by a supernatural creator.

I think I have already explained what I have learned about the creation by a supernatural creator connected with the universe constructed over billions of years. You can go back over my previous posts where I explained it. You don't have to believe what I say about it. All I am posting is what makes sense to me. Because all our knowledge is incomplete, I may be right or I may be wrong. We all have to do our own research and come to our own conclusions.

It depends on whether we believe that God can use billions of our years to construct a universal and a planet suitable for mankind, using natural processes in the construction of them, or that God waved a magic wand like Harry Potter and the universe suddenly appeared out of the blue. There have been many old earth scientists who have come to Christ, not through quoting the Bible at them, but though their observation of the wonders of the universe and our world, convincing them that the universe was designed and created by someone infinitely intelligent and powerful, and when presented with the Gospel of Christ, they have believed it and turned in faith and trust to Christ. But they did not reject their view of an old earth creation, because the evidence before them was quite clear to them. Even so, this did not diminish their wonder at a God who could create a whole universe out of nothing, and maintain it so that the whole universe remained such that life on our planet could be maintained. Then they realised that this whole universe was created for the sole purpose of the redemption of mankind and the eradication of evil.

 

[JohnEmmett]

this whole universe was created for the sole purpose of the redemption of mankind and the eradication of evil.

Hobbits do not think like this

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is evidence of modern humans from millions of years ago

Yes there is. Anthropological evidence shows that Adam and Eve could well have been created at the last ice age. This is shown about the four rivers that flowed out of Eden. Two of them are still flowing - the Tigris and Euphrates, because there is still substantial deposits of ice at their source. But the other two rivers are dry river beds, which show that the initial ice that supplied the water melted many thousands of years ago when the last ice age ended. In actual fact, according to scientists expert in the field, we are 5000 years overdue for a new ice age.

We don't know how much time elapsed between the creation of Adam and Eve and Noah's flood. Certainly enough time for the whole Middle East region to be fully populated.

There is evidence that the first human beings had migrated to North America, 20,000 years ago, when there was still enough surface ice between Russia and Alaska to permit people to travel between the two continents. What this tells us that the Tower of Babel event occurred more that 20,000 years ago. Noah's flood must have happened quite a few generations before that, because it would have taken time for the population to increase from just 8 people to enough people to be able to build the tower. I don't know how this coincides with the genealogical record stated in Genesis that was calculated by [Bishop Ussher?]. I think some have an explanation for it, perhaps someone on the thread who knows can explain it for our information.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Noah's flood must have happened quite a few generations before that,

youtu.be/laXhTcko-lg?t=637

12 900–11 700 years ago

 

[Occams Barber]

No complete skeletons have been discovered. With one where a bone was discovered which was identified as a part human, when it was analysed, it turned out to be a bone from a pig. I think there was another one where a jawbone was found, and a whole part human was created out of it, but later found that it was the jawbone of an non human ape. The Pitdown man, celebrated as a great example of a part human ancestor, was later exposed as a total hoax and a fraud. I think there was a skeleton found of what was thought to be a Neanderthal man, but upon closer examination, it more likely appeared to be a normal man with advanced arthritis. In all, there is insufficient evidence that any of these sub-humans actually existed.

Here are three qualified sources which disagree with your view of human evolution and fossils - better still why not visit your local natural history museum and see for yourself?

The Smithsonian Institution

Human Fossils

humanorigins.si.edu

Encyclopedia Britannica

Human evolution | History, Stages, Timeline, Tree, Chart, & Facts | Britannica

Human evolution, the process by which human beings developed on Earth from now-extinct primates. The only extant members of the human tribe, Hominini, belong to the species Homo sapiens. The exact nature of the evolutionary relationships between modern humans and their ancestors remains the...

www.britannica.com

British National History Museum

Human evolution | Natural History Museum

Find out about the origin of modern humans - our species, Homo sapiens. Explore our family tree and hominin characteristics. Discover what Neanderthals looked like.

www.nhm.ac.uk

OB

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's... that's all just absolutely and completely wrong.

There have been multiple and many skeletons of earlier humans, going all the way back to Australopithecus, and the ones that you are citing are known hoaxes and frauds that really do nothing to disprove that humans evolved from earlier forms.

So, you're either lying here or are very much just horribly misinformed about evolution. I pray it's the latter.

Most of the complete skeletons have been of normal human beings of different shapes and sizes. The only so called evidence of intermediate stage sub humans have been bone fragments added to theoretical mockups or artist impressions to make it appear that there were intermediate stage sub humans. There have been many Youtube videos that have examined the evidence and the results have shown that any artist impression or mockup is based purely on guesswork. You can go on Youtube and see that evidence for yourself, if you are open and interested enough to see both sides of the Evolution/Creation side of the story.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Most of the complete skeletons have been of normal human beings of different shapes and sizes. The only so called evidence of intermediate stage sub humans have been bone fragments added to theoretical mockups or artist impressions to make it appear that there were intermediate stage sub humans. There have been many Youtube videos that have examined the evidence and the results have shown that any artist impression or mockup is based purely on guesswork. You can go on Youtube and see that evidence for yourself, if you are open and interested enough to see both sides of the Evolution/Creation side of the story.

YouTube videos are only that: YouTube videos. They mean next to nothing when they talk about things like this. Just because someone posts something online does not mean it's factual or accurate. Your claims above are great examples of that.

The history of the discoveries of the various and numerous fossilised skeletal remains of human ancestors is well documented and easily accessible to anyone with half a brain to actually put in the effort to research it. But it's clear that you're the type of person who just wants to be told what to believe while doing the minimum amount of work, and then thinks that you can overturn a century of scientific knowledge and discovery.

I've seen the Creationist side of the debate and it's laughably poor in so many ways and means.

 

[JohnEmmett]

I've seen the Creationist side of the debate and it's laughably poor

Hobbits are unaware of Eru Ilúvatar


It’s a metaphor…

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Hobbits are unaware of Eru Ilúvatar


It’s a metaphor…

Because they came unbidden into Middle Earth.

Also, Tolkien hated metaphor and allegory, by his own admission, so you're wrong in that it's a metaphor. Please stop trying to be smart. No one is impressed by your snap shot quotes.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Please stop trying to be smart.

It’s a simple metaphor

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It’s a simple metaphor

It's not a metaphor at all. Stop.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Also, Tolkien hated metaphor and allegory,

Tolkien said the hobbits lack imagination


This is relevant in a debate about the Creator

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Tolkien said the hobbits lack imagination


This is relevant in a debate about the Creator

No, it's not. Stop it.

 

[JohnEmmett]

No, it's not. Stop it.

If you cannot tolerate the truth…

 

[JohnEmmett]

…

 

[Gene2memE]

No complete skeletons have been discovered.

Some very nearly complete skeletons have though.

Little Foot, an Australopithecus skeleton, is a little more than 90% complete.
Kebara, a Homo Neanderthalis skeleton, is described as "nearly complete"
Neo, a Homo naledi skeleton, is largely complete except for a missing a section of skull, and the ankles and feet. The skeleton was discovered in a cave with the remains of 14 other Homo naledi.
Turkana Boy, a Homo Erectus skeleton, is about 70% complete.

There are hundreds of hominid and archaic homo sapiens fossils that have been discovered. Most are fragmentary, but more get discovered all the time.