Past resurrections did not include a transformation, that is not a required component of "resurrection" but is rather a unique element that will be necessitated only at the coming of Christ. The resurrection is only for those who are dead in Christ, those who are alive get caught up and transformed, not resurrected.
The soul is the seat of our identity, the glorified bodies are simply the shells we will obtain that will allow us a physical existence in the New Jerusalem, as mortal bodies cannot be in the presence of a holy God. You do not understand the necessity nor the significance of the glorified body, it is not negated by the soul of man. It is for the believer to be conformed to the likeness of Christ so as to allow our existence in the very presence of God.
Not sure the relevance of previous resurrections when we are talking about our future resurrection in Christ. You still haven't shown the purpose of the glorified resurrection body when they are simply shells for our soul which encompasses our identity, saying our moral bodies cannot be in the present of God simply leaves the question why we need a body at all, and being conformed to the likeness of Christ raises the question why Christ needed to be physically raised from the dead. He had already triumphed in the spirit
1Pet 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,
why did he need his body raised too?
Of course, I am not questioning the resurrection myself, then again I don't see a scriptural basis for an intrinsically eternal soul which encompasses our identity and lives on after death. But it is interesting that the Greeks who believed in an immortal soul were the ones who found Paul's preaching of physical resurrection foolishness.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
No reference to soul there, and anyway Paul was taking to people who were still alive.
Anyway, where does Paul say in Philippians that it is the believer's soul that goes to be with Christ?
Absent from the body --> present with the Lord. (2 Cor.5:6-8)
23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. (Philippians 1:23)
Paul understand his departure from his physical body equated with him going to be with Christ.
Again, where does Paul say that it is the believer's soul that goes to be with Christ?
You do not understand the difference between the two, that is the cause for your confusion. It is not "spirits" (plural) but rather "spirit" (singular), it is simply the borrowed breath of God that gives life to all living beings.
Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
The spirit (singular) of men (plural)
-A single, common substance.
There may be lots of us but we die one at a time and our spirit returns to God. Heb 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect.
But lets run with you argument, you have shown that
nephesh is simply physical life (see my previous post) now ruach is just the breath God gave to the humans race. Where in the OT do we find this mysterious soul that encompasses our personality and survives death? You say it is not
ruach and
nephesh is simply our physical life?
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls;
Your (men = plural) souls (plural).
-Individual, unique possessions
That is precisely what the scriptures reveal, "spirit" is intrinsic in its nature of simply being the breath of life (no eternal component whatsoever, it is absolutely exclusive to physical existence) whereas souls are intrinsic in their eternal nature, as they are in need of redemption in order to reverse the eternal disposition from Gehenna to the presence of a Holy God.
You left out the second half of the verse
Lev 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
You have
nephesh in the plural for the first time it is translated 'souls'
nephesh singular for the second time it is translated soul
and you have nephesh translated as life in the blood of the sacrificial animals.
In fact the whole argument is bases on the equivalence of animals and human nephesh. Blood atones for our nephesh, because it has the nephesh of the sacrifice
It is not a question of what you deem to be consistent. The life of flesh is in the blood --> pertains to physical life, blood is physical. Nephesh is a word referencing the tangible (PHYSICAL) aspects of life COMMON TO ALL LIVING BEINGS. This makes atonement for the soul --> soul is not physical, it is a spiritual component. Darby translates it wrongfully, and note that the souls belong to man --> "your" souls, like I said you cannot seem to understand "souls" are always used consistently in the context of belonging to men and never animals.
It is the same word
nephesh.
Atonement is not needed for animals because animals do not have souls that require atonement in the first place.
Exodus 13:13
Every firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. Every firstborn of man among your sons you shall redeem.
More seriously, atonement is for sin. Animals do not need atonement for their souls, their
nephesh, because animals do not sin.
[QUOTE
Instead you claim salvation would be extended to animals if they had souls, which (a) the bible does not say]
Whether you want to accept it or not, salvation is not extended to animals because they have no eternal disposition as humans do, and the eternal disposition of humankind is accomplished due to the existence of his soul.
And yet you give no scriptural basis for this.
Mankind inescapably are set with an eternal disposition, and are thus beings of an eternal nature.
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both
soul and body in hell."
"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet
are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever...
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."
"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John,[
a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying,
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God." [/QUOTE]
Great verses nothing to do with your claim though.
Mankind possess souls-->the element of human existence requiring atonement, atonement being needed for the capacity to sin.
Christ's redemption extends way beyond our souls, we are saved body, soul and spirit. The reason it talks of souls requiring atonement is because the wages of sin is death, Ezek 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul." (Lev.17:11)
The identity of man does not/cannot pass into non-existence at death.
-Isaiah 14/Revelations 20:11
Where is the reference to souls in Isaiah 14 or Rev 20:11?
The eternal disposition of man and his soul are inextricably linked in scripture. This is an obvious and clear Biblical principle you do not seem to understand.
For something so inextricably linked in scripture you are having an awfully hard time coming up with scripture supporting the idea
And this bears absolutely no significance to the argument at hand, as it does not show any evidence for/against the animal soul. They will simply be present, evidently.
No what it shows is that they share in the inheritance and redemption of the sons of God as Paul says in Romans. You claimed salvation would be extended to animals if they had souls, a non sequitor, so I showed you how animals share in our redemption. It doesn't isn't evidence animals have souls, it simply shows how your arguments against animals having souls is contradicted by scripture. Of course the real evidence animals have souls is that the bible uses exactly the same word for animals as it does the human soul .
I said in my heart, Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.
The text is clear, it is not meant to connect men with beasts in any literal form whatsoever, it is simply a theological simile.
Eccles 3:18 NKJV
I said in my heart, Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.
Notice how your NKJV quote has 'like' in italics? That means it is a word they added in themselves, it is not there in the Hebrew.
Does not mention souls? The dead are being judged, and in what form do you think they are? It is the souls of all the dead, and they are being judged --> can you not understand this is only accomplished due to their identities being in tact and in existence. Does not Christ tell us both body and soul get thrown into gehenna? A body is given only prior to the individual being tossed into Gehenna. You do not seem to want to make the connections.
Where do you get the idea the dead are resurrected
after the last judgement?
Proposing? If you do not want to trust scripture, that is your issue. Are you not able to follow simple, scriptural truths? Ecclesiastes 12 makes it clear the "breath" that God gives all living flesh returns to Him at death. Do the souls of all men go to God at death? If you have read the Bible enough you will know the answer, it is not what I am proposing, it is what scripture is saying. Spirit is simply the breath of life.
So, what are all the spirits of righteous men made perfect doing in heaven?
"nephesh" delineates the tangible aspects of all living flesh, this much is clear, as it is a reference to the physical life --> blood. Soul is not physical nor tangible.
Yet soul is a translation of
nephesh. So where you you get this intangible soul from in scripture?
He confirmed both body and soul, He speaks about the very thing I am trying to make clear to you --> the eternal disposition of the soul in Gehenna. You are missing the point completely here, it is perfectly evident nonetheless.
No you have been talking about a soul that has an independent existence apart from the body, Jesus was talking about body and soul together.
