Evolution and the Human Soul

[solarwave]

Scripture is clear why humans differ from the rest of biological life, that they are made in the image of God --> the soul being the key element as to how the human experience is achievable as God defined it to be. You toss the most important element out and in exchange place evolutionary theory on a pedestal. Absolutely ridiculous.

I agree that we are in the image of God, but the image of God is not the same thing as the soul.

Did you know the breath of life that God breathed in Adam was the same as the breath of life in animals?

To be honest I don't see why it is necessary to suppose humans have a spiritual part of them. Maybe we do, maybe we don't.

If humans are animals, then why has God intended us to be fashioned differently than animals? Humans are not animals, what a delectable piece of evolutionary propaganda. You should spend more time reading your Bible rather than science books, as it is exceptionally clear in not distinguishing us as animals.

In what way are we different from animals? Our brains are more intelligent and so allowing us to know God, but our Genes are much like other living things.

 

[pgp_protector]

...snip...
If humans are animals, then why has God intended us to be fashioned differently than animals? Humans are not animals, what a delectable piece of evolutionary propaganda. You should spend more time reading your Bible rather than science books, as it is exceptionally clear in not distinguishing us as animals.
...snip....

What are they going to do when they also learn they're
a primate
a Mammalia
or a Eukarya
or a Animalia
or a Chordata

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

I agree that we are in the image of God, but the image of God is not the same thing as the soul.

It is not that they are the "same thing". They are nonetheless interconnected, as humanity are the sole creation made in His image and the sole proprietors of the soul.

Did you know the breath of life that God breathed in Adam was the same as the breath of life in animals?

I could use a set of carpenter tools to create an incredibly vast array of varied and unique furniture pieces. That is the full extent of the "breath of God", it doesn't imply anything more.

To be honest I don't see why it is necessary to suppose humans have a spiritual part of them. Maybe we do, maybe we don't.

Humans not having a spiritual part to them? My friend, the Bible in its entirety is dedicated to this very thing.

In what way are we different from animals? Our brains are more intelligent and so allowing us to know God, but our Genes are much like other living things.

Of course there is a common genetic make up, but the differences vastly outweigh the commonalities when you look at the full scope of things, especially in light of the scriptures.

 

[gluadys]

You seem to think:

humans have souls and animals don't,
​

(though the bible actually talks of both animal and human souls),

humans are eternal and animals aren't,
​

(though the bible is actually silent on the issue of animals in heaven )

Perhaps the bible is not silent on the issue of animals in heaven---or plants and other living creatures either. See below.

Salvation does not apply to animals nor are they found at the Great White Throne judgment which precedes eternity. The soul truly is what distinguishes us apart from the animal kingdom, it is our "eternal identity" so to speak. Beasts of the earth are never mentioned in this context simply because it does not apply to them, meaning it is something they simply do not have.

I expect the reason animals are not found at the Great White Throne judgment is that since they are innocent and without sin, there is no application of judgment to them.

But they are found around the throne of God. When I was asked to preach on our Diocesan Earth Sunday last April, I was delighted to find this passage in the epistle reading for the day:

Then I looked and I heard the voice of many angels surrounding the throne and the living creatures and the elders; they numbered myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands singing with full voice .....
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea and all that is in them singing .... Revelation 5:11,13​

To set the context, this is part of the scene in heaven when the one seated on the throne holds out the scroll with seven seals and the Lamb is called forward as the one who is worthy to take it and open the seals. When the Lamb appears, a song of praise is raised first by the four creatures around the throne and the 24 elders seated before it. The hymn is then taken up by a great antiphonal choir. The first part of the antiphon is sung by heaven's angels and the response is sung by every creature in creation.

In his gospel John tells us "God so loved the world..." And Paul speaks of creation eagerly yearning for its release from futility and bondage to decay.

These things say to me that all of creation has its place in the eternal kingdom of God.

It is right to say that salvation from sin is offered only to humanity, but that is because only humanity has sinned. It is not right to say that of all the material creation only humanity is destined for eternity. Animals and trees and mountains and lakes and fish and flowers and butterflies and every creature will be with us in eternity as they are now and add their voices to the eternal song of praise we lift to God.

 

[Cabal]

To discuss the ramifications of the human soul in the presence of evolutionary theory.



Truthfully, it is the human soul that engenders the human experience. This much is clear from scripture. The human mind and all of its various capacities would therefore be empty and vain without the existence of the soul, which is the very seat of human identity. So then, do we assume that an ape-man/woman devoid of all these aspects that engenders the human experience somehow gave birth to the "first" human? That this first human popped out with a soul, mind, and all the various components that define a modern human? That this "human" would "grow up" to look back at his "birth mother" in full, intimate awareness of himself and the world in which he finds himself, and sees her scurrying off after a critter while grunting and making other guttural sounds?

It matters not if you want to infer an evolutionary gradient as to how the faculties of the human mind arose. Without the presence of a soul, all of the major faculties are "turned off", they will not and simply cannot work. So in reality, TEs ignore the ramifications of their very own views, that an ape-man really did give birth to the first human, as any being without a soul or the various cognitive faculties present in mankind is just that --> an animal.



Evidently, the only way around this is to start redefining "this" or "that". I wonder what kind of legitimate theories can be produced to possibly explain this away, hmm?

Provide empirical evidence that the soul exists, then we'll talk.

 

[solarwave]

It is not that they are the "same thing". They are nonetheless interconnected, as humanity are the sole creation made in His image and the sole proprietors of the soul.

Ok

Humans not having a spiritual part to them? My friend, the Bible in its entirety is dedicated to this very thing.

Can you give me any verses. I wouldn't be supprised if u could change my mind as I am quite open to that.

Of course there is a common genetic make up, but the differences vastly outweigh the commonalities when you look at the full scope of things, especially in light of the scriptures.

Do you believe animals go to heaven?

 

[Papias]

Happy wrote:

I am simply arguing that the level of consciousness in humans that occurs naturally (which is a deeply intimate kind) could not exist without the soul, which is the seat of that human's identity.

How could you possibly know that? Do you have any reason to think that our level of consciousness can exist without a soul? What does the soul do, then, magically allow the computation of the mind to work differently?

More to the point, do you think that even severely mentally handicapped people are more conscious than, say, chimps or dolphins? It doesn't seem like it. If someone is severely mentally handicapped, and not very conscious, then are you saying that they must not have a soul, so it is OK to kill them? Do we lose our soul when we sleep or are anesthetized? What evidence are you basing your claim on that the presence of a sould renders a being conscious?

Is there any evidence against the idea that humans were divinely given a soul, and that this is not related to consciousness? After all, unconsious humans still have a soul, and conscious non-human animals don't have one.

Papias

 

[Mikecpking]

The level of intelligence present within humans could not exist without the soul, which is my point. Like I said, the human experience is engendered by the human soul, without a soul any form of intelligence is severely limited in comparison. This is proven by both scripture and nature. The dividing line between animals and humans.

You do not reconcile this issue, you are simply nitpicking.

Hi,
This is where there is obvious conflict on the definition of what a 'soul' is.

The bible uses the word 'nephesh' and in every place in the OT where you see the word 'soul' is always translated from this Hebrew word.

The fact is animals and humans are 'souls' (Gen 1:26, Gen 2:7, Gen 2:17).
The Hebrew realm of consciousness lay not with 'soul', rather with 'heart' (Hebrew= Leb) eg.. the fool has said in his heart 'there is no God' from Proverbs.
One must make a careful study on Hebrew or biblical anthropology to get a full understanding of human personhood.

 

[Mikecpking]

Scripture reveals more than enough on the topic. There is no purpose in quoting this verse other than an attempt to feign some sort of ambiguity to the discussion. Mankind are eternal beings, the beasts of the earth are not.

Mankind are not eternal beings at all. There is only one immortal being and that is God himself.
Immortality is a gift (Romans 6:23), we are subject to death as there is biblically speaking no such thing as an immortal soul.
EZ 18:4
Judges 16:30
Numbers 23:10

 

[Assyrian]

I'd have to say you are incorrect here. Immortality does not equate with eternal life nor does having eternal life equate with being "eternal" persay. God alone is "immortal" because He is the one and only being who by nature is -not- mortal, that is the extent of 1 Tim 6:15. Eternal life is simply the opposite of eternal damnation, it speaks not of the eternal nature of man. And like I already mentioned, humans are eternal beings. Whether they have eternal life or not is irrelevant, and they are by nature mortal --> hence of course they do not possess immortality. The soul of man encompasses his identity, and it is not in dispute that this identity even persists death and will carry over into eternity, hence the reason why I say humankind to be of an eternal nature. It has nothing to do with my personal opinion.

How do you now the soul encompasses our identity? If it did there would be no reason for the resurrection. What makes you think this identity survives death because it a 'soul', rather than being the work of God who is alone immortal? Even if the human soul is intrinsically eternal (contradicting 1Tim 6:16), why is this not simply a quality God has given the human soul and not animals? Remember Solomon though it was possible for animals to have a spirit that dies with the body while the human spirit could return to God. Eccles 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

The Bible doesn't explicitly mention the reality of the trinity, but it is present nonetheless within its pages. The soul is what persists death and will be what carries over into eternity, I'd assume this to be understood as a Basic Biblical principle.

It is funny how people keep quoting the Trinity when they can't back up other doctrines. Just because the Trinity is true, doesn't men you doctrine of the soul is. The Trinity is grounded in sound biblical teaching on the divinity of Christ, Christ himself calling God his father, the divinity and personality of the Holy Spirit and the biblical insistence that God is one. On the other hand the popular understanding of the soul is based on tradition. So I wil ask again, where does the bible say we are eternal beings because we have souls?

You actually answer your previous question. Salvation proves the eternality of man. Only humans have the capacity to sin, and I'd say this is due to both the fact that they possess a soul and intelligence, both being of a completely unique kind. Salvation is relevant because it is a remedy for humanity in regards to their eternal disposition, salvation exists because mankind have souls which are eternal, and will not pass out of existence.

Oddly enough, God's plan for our eternal salvation is the resurrection of our bodies. I would say we have eternal life because of Jesus death and resurrection, not because we have souls. The difference between us an animals is that we sinned and fell short of God, not that we have souls and they don't.

The end of revelations affirms the eternity of all humans to say the least. Like I said perviously, sometimes critical issues in the Bible are never explicitly mentionned, it does not mean they are not there nor are they spoken of. Salvation does not apply to animals nor are they found at the Great White Throne judgment which precedes eternity. The soul truly is what distinguishes us apart from the animal kingdom, it is our "eternal identity" so to speak. Beasts of the earth are never mentioned in this context simply because it does not apply to them, meaning it is something they simply do not have.

Being created in the image of God, being able to understand God's command and disobeying God, being redeemed and made the children of God is what distinguishes us from animals, not having a soul.

No, the reason why I think animals don't have souls is because the Bible makes it very clear. If animals had souls then salvation would be extended to them as well.

It is amazing you claim that after I just showed you the bible taking about animal souls.

Instead you claim salvation would be extended to animals if they had souls, which (a) the bible does not say and (b) you have just read how all creation will share in the redemption of the sons of God.

We haven't just evolved from beasts, according to the bible we still are beasts. Getting back to Solomon,
Eccles 3:18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.

It is clearly a theological saying --> I find it ironic that you read it as literal in order to bring your point across. Making use of a double standard here

How is it a double standard when I never claimed everything in the bible is figurative? The bible certainly does use 'beast' to describe people acting well, beastly. However in this passage Solomon is comparing people and animals and discussing what happens after they die. It is in this context he says God wants us to understand we are animals too.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Mankind are not eternal beings at all. There is only one immortal being and that is God himself.
Immortality is a gift (Romans 6:23), we are subject to death as there is biblically speaking no such thing as an immortal soul.
EZ 18:4
Judges 16:30
Numbers 23:10

Learn the difference between what "eternal" means and what "immortality" means. I do not understand why people claim humans are not of an eternal nature despite the fact that scripture reveals they will be spending "eternity" either in God's presence or gehenna.

 

[Mikecpking]

Learn the difference between what "eternal" means and what "immortality" means. I do not understand why people claim humans are not of an eternal nature despite the fact that scripture reveals they will be spending "eternity" either in God's presence or gehenna.

'Gehenna' is a valley outside Jerusalem where rubbish was burnt and was used for a figurative image of what judgement would be like. If you mean the Lake of Fire, that is something else.
My take on this subject is that we will all be resurrected at the last day and all will stand before the judgement seat of God and then eternity is decided, but the route to the lake of fire in my view will result in death (the second one!)

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

'Gehenna' is a valley outside Jerusalem where rubbish was burnt and was used for a figurative image of what judgement would be like. If you mean the Lake of Fire, that is something else.
My take on this subject is that we will all be resurrected at the last day and all will stand before the judgement seat of God and then eternity is decided, but the route to the lake of fire in my view will result in death (the second one!)

There is no such thing as annihilation of souls and gehenna is clearly the second death, the lake of fire. It is a scriptural certainty, anything other than this is simpe denial of scripture my friend.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

How do you now the soul encompasses our identity? If it did there would be no reason for the resurrection.

Then you clearly do not know what "resurrection" signifies. Resurrection is simply a reunion between "body" and "soul". The reason for resurrection is so that the souls of men who lost their physical body will regain them once again. There is absolutely no correlation in what you argue. Identity is not lost at death, nor do souls pass out of non-existence but go down to Sheol (believer's go to be with Christ ->> phillippians).

What makes you think this identity survives death because it a 'soul', rather than being the work of God who is alone immortal? Even if the human soul is intrinsically eternal (contradicting 1Tim 6:16),

Being "immortal" is NOT the same as being "eternal", understand this. There is no contradiction, it is simply a misunderstanding on your part. Humans are eternal beings, open your eyes and understand this simple, obvious truth. Never does a human soul pass into non-existence, and "eternity" follows the great white throne judgment, eternity being something that every human is a part of, Sweet Lord.

why is this not simply a quality God has given the human soul and not animals? Remember Solomon though it was possible for animals to have a spirit that dies with the body while the human spirit could return to God. Eccles 3:21

Spirit =/= Soul

Human: (Body(Soul(Spirit)Soul)Body)
Beast: (Body(Spirit)Body)

So I will ask again, where does the bible say we are eternal beings because we have souls?

Wrong causality, we have souls and are thus eternal beings. Humans do not pass into non-existence at death. Identity is retained at death, clearly scriptural. The soul of man is what persists, and it will persist eternally --> read Isaiah 14 (the men of Sheol not only realize who they are and those around them, but they know who enter). The Great White Throne Judgment is further evidence to the persistence of man's identity after death.

Oddly enough, God's plan for our eternal salvation is the resurrection of our bodies. I would say we have eternal life because of Jesus death and resurrection, not because we have souls. The difference between us an animals is that we sinned and fell short of God, not that we have souls and they don't.

The reason why salvation exists is -because- men are eternal. Salvation does not exist for the animal kingdom because they do not have an eternal disposition, mankind does.

Being created in the image of God, being able to understand God's command and disobeying God, being redeemed and made the children of God is what distinguishes us from animals, not having a soul.

The whole reason why we ae capable of all this is due to the soul that is inescapably set with an eternal disposition

It is amazing you claim that after I just showed you the bible taking about animal souls.

Absolutely not. The extent of animal "spirituality" is limited to ecclesiastes (the "spirit" of beasts) and the term -"living" beings- from genesis. Anytime you actually read the term "soul" it is consistently and exclusively in relation to a human, never a beast. The Bible speaks nothing of animal souls, simply because there is no such thing.

Instead you claim salvation would be extended to animals if they had souls, which (a) the bible does not say

Whether you want to accept it or not, salvation is not extended to animals because they have no eternal disposition as humans do, and the eternal disposition of humankind is accomplished due to the existence of his soul.

and (b) you have just read how all creation will share in the redemption of the sons of God.

So will the trees, grasshoppers, boulders, rocks, pebbles,...etc. Rocks will not be redeemed nor resurrected. You are erroneously applying the verse here

How is it a double standard when I never claimed everything in the bible is figurative? The bible certainly does use 'beast' to describe people acting well, beastly. However in this passage Solomon is comparing people and animals and discussing what happens after they die. It is in this context he says God wants us to understand we are animals too

It is not meant to say we are alike animals in any literal form, but in a theological sense. Again, wrongfully applied

"For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street. Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.” (Ecc.12)

Pay close attention. The spirit returns to God. Do the souls of all men go to God? No (i.e. Rev 20:15). Does the spirit of all men return to God? Yes. However, this happens only at death. The “spirit” is essenatilly the “breath” of God, which is the life of all living beings. Regardless if it is of a righteous man, wicked man, or beast of the earth, at death this life “returns” to God. The soul of man is something different, unique, and as I have been saying, eternal. The Bible speaks more than enough on the state of man’s soul after death (i.e. Sheol/Gehenna).

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Provide empirical evidence that the soul exists, then we'll talk.

We apparently have nothing to talk about, as there is no "empirical" evidence for God, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit's existence. Why are you even on these forums?

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Can you give me any verses. I wouldn't be supprised if u could change my mind as I am quite open to that.

The ultimate goal of what the scriptures are to reveal is salvation. The entire NT is dedicated to the unveiling of this very salvation (gospels) and the perfecting of this salvation in believers (every other NT book) with the OT being the preamble/exposition material for it. It's not about one verse, it's literally about every verse. Salvation is a central element that applies to the spiritual nature of mankind and the adhering/rejection of it determines his eternal disposition.

Do you believe animals go to heaven?

Scripture revelas only mankind to be beings with an eternal disposition, and animals are never mentioned as being possessors of souls, whereas mankind are consistently. Animals do not only not go to heaven, they do not go to hell either, they are simply not of any eternal nature.

 

[Mikecpking]

There is no such thing as annihilation of souls and gehenna is clearly the second death, the lake of fire. It is a scriptural certainty, anything other than this is simpe denial of scripture my friend.

Numbers 23:10 Let my (nephesh=soul) die the death of the righteous
Judges 16:30 Let my (nephesh=soul) die with the philistines
Ezekiel 18:4 The soul (nephesh) that sins is the one who will die.

So much for soul immortality as it is simply not taught in scripture.

Here is the defiintion of 'soul'

Nephesh - Psyche - SoulThe important passage in Genesis 2:7 sets the scene for this 'window - word' into the nature of personhood. An individual becomes a 'nephesh' from the infusion of divine breath into moulded dust. In physical terms 'nephesh' means, 'neck', 'throat', 'gullet' and came to mean 'life', that 'vital motion' which distinguishes a living being from a corpse.

'Nephesh' has such a variety of senses that we must make a careful definition in each particular case. Meanings overlap and are used side by side. It is easy to end up with contradictory statements about 'nephesh'. Here are some of the central statements about 'nephesh':-
• it is that vital life which is shared by both humans and animals [Gen 2:19].
• it is life that is bound up with the body, blood is the vehicle of nephesh [Dt 12:23], at death it dies [Nu 23:10] draining away with the blood, with resuscitation it 'returns'; not that it has gone anywhere.
• it can denote 'the living individual themselves' [Gen 14:21], and can replace the personal pronoun to create special emphasis [Ps 42:6], God uses it of himself [Am 6:8].
• it is strongly instinctive [animal] activity; desire, vital urge, feeling, emotion, mood [Dt 14:26].
• it is feelings and emotions of a spiritual kind; grief, pain, joy, peace, love [Ezk 27:31]; its highest expression is longing for God [Ps 25:1].
The New Testament uses the Greek 'psyche' with the sense of the Hebrew 'nephesh'. Paul's writings are significant for how rarely he uses it. The Synoptics are interesting in that one third of their usage refers to life beyond death [Mt 10:28,39; 16:25-26; Mk 8:35-37; Lk 9:24; 21:19], due to the overlap of present and future in the Kingdom of God; revolutionary in terms of its Hebrew roots.
This 'nephesh' is primarily the life of the whole person in terms of strongly instinctive [animal] activity. It reflects the glory and richness of God's gift of life to him though susceptible to death. It is not an independent substance which, as many have argued, survives death.

 

[Mikecpking]

Then you clearly do not know what "resurrection" signifies. Resurrection is simply a reunion between "body" and "soul". The reason for resurrection is so that the souls of men who lost their physical body will regain them once again. There is absolutely no correlation in what you argue. Identity is not lost at death, nor do souls pass out of non-existence but go down to Sheol (believer's go to be with Christ ->> phillippians).

I think it is clearly a case of definition. Nowhere does it state that the resurrection is reunion of soul and body as the biblical soul is not the same thing as the Platonic soul. The soul is essentially the life bound up in the biody and remains a soul in the grave after death until it decomposes into dust (gen 3:19, Ecllesiates 12:6,7) and when in the grave (sheol) is a 'rephaim' (Psalm 88, Job 3) until the resurection (dan 12:2, Job 14:10-12, John 5:28), we simply do not eneter heaven until the last day which is resurection day (John 3:13, Acts 2:29-34).
So death is not non existence, the problem I am arguing with you is that the biblical soul is not the essence of a person, rather it is the living, whole person and is subject to death.

Being "immortal" is NOT the same as being "eternal", understand this. There is no contradiction, it is simply a misunderstanding on your part. Humans are eternal beings, open your eyes and understand this simple, obvious truth. Never does a human soul pass into non-existence, and "eternity" follows the great white throne judgment, eternity being something that every human is a part of, Sweet Lord.



Spirit =/= Soul

Human: (Body(Soul(Spirit)Soul)Body)
Beast: (Body(Spirit)Body)



Wrong causality, we have souls and are thus eternal beings. Humans do not pass into non-existence at death. Identity is retained at death, clearly scriptural. The soul of man is what persists, and it will persist eternally --> read Isaiah 14 (the men of Sheol not only realize who they are and those around them, but they know who enter). The Great White Throne Judgment is further evidence to the persistence of man's identity after death.



The reason why salvation exists is -because- men are eternal. Salvation does not exist for the animal kingdom because they do not have an eternal disposition, mankind does.



The whole reason why we ae capable of all this is due to the soul that is inescapably set with an eternal disposition



Absolutely not. The extent of animal "spirituality" is limited to ecclesiastes (the "spirit" of beasts) and the term -"living" beings- from genesis. Anytime you actually read the term "soul" it is consistently and exclusively in relation to a human, never a beast. The Bible speaks nothing of animal souls, simply because there is no such thing.



Whether you want to accept it or not, salvation is not extended to animals because they have no eternal disposition as humans do, and the eternal disposition of humankind is accomplished due to the existence of his soul.



So will the trees, grasshoppers, boulders, rocks, pebbles,...etc. Rocks will not be redeemed nor resurrected. You are erroneously applying the verse here



It is not meant to say we are alike animals in any literal form, but in a theological sense. Again, wrongfully applied

"For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street. Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.” (Ecc.12)

Pay close attention. The spirit returns to God. Do the souls of all men go to God? No (i.e. Rev 20:15). Does the spirit of all men return to God? Yes. However, this happens only at death. The “spirit” is essenatilly the “breath” of God, which is the life of all living beings. Regardless if it is of a righteous man, wicked man, or beast of the earth, at death this life “returns” to God. The soul of man is something different, unique, and as I have been saying, eternal. The Bible speaks more than enough on the state of man’s soul after death (i.e. Sheol/Gehenna).

As some people like to equate soul and spirit, here are the rest of teh notes concerning spirit

Ruah - Pneuma - Spirit
This 'picture - window' into personhood highlights our unique relationship with God.'Ruah' has its roots in the 'wind' which emphasises both its powerful and yet subtle nature. 'Ruah' is used in a number of different contexts:-
• for the wind in nature.
• for the nature of God's being ['Spirit of God', 'Holy Spirit']; dynamic, overwhelming, at times completely dominating [Jg 6:34], the root of prophesying [ISam 10:5-6] and abnormal strength [Jg 14:6].
• for demonic activity [ISam 16:14].
• for the 'principle of life' [akin to 'nephesh' often used interchangeably]. It is the life force present everywhere; independent, universal, it does not die.
• for the vital energy dwelling within each individual, that force which affects temperament.
Human 'ruah' is more than just the natural breath we breathe [which is 'nesama']. There is a vital energy within each person which is the result of the special 'in-breathing' of God; the centre of thoughts, decisions, moods, and is the dimension of personhood most directly open to the influence of God. 'Ruah' particularly stresses:-
• the direction of the will, it is the energy behind willing and acting, that which urges good and evil [Isa 29:24; Ps 51:12].
• the deep emotions; passion [Jg 8:3], grief [Gen 26:35] zeal [Hag 1:14], often seen in the panting of excitement or distress which is different from normal breathing.
• the seat of individual moral qualities and attitudes [Ecc 7:8; Isa 57:15; Num 14:24]. Ezekiel sees the Messianic age as a period when individuals will be permeated by Yahweh's 'ruah' which in turn will renew their own [11; 19; 18:31; 36:26; 39:29]. This is one of the most important words in Paul's vocabulary with his emphasis on regeneration, sanctification, fellowship with God [Gal. 5:22-23 etc].
• the experience of being in touch with God and under God's influence. The human 'ruah' searches out God's ways [Ps 77:7; Isa 26;9], it can be stirred or hardened by God [Jer 51; 11; Dt 2:30].
'Ruah' presents us with human nature's in interplay with the nature of God. It is stressing a person open to and transmitting the life of God [Rm 8:16; ICor 2:10-11]. It has no physical 'animal' character, [never associated with blood], transcending mere desire or feeling.
Leb - Kardia - Heart'Leb' is a 'window - word' that looks in at personhood in terms of deepest emotions and from the perspective of intellect and will. 'Leb', in some ways, draws together every spiritual process. It is'conscious spiritual activity'.
It was early recognised that emotions and intense feelings produce physical effects in the heart [slow, quick, intermittent pulse rates, sometimes strong pain]. So it has come to picture the epicentre of the human person as an emotional being. Other bodily organs have been drawn alongside to add other facets to this idea:-
• Kidneys: the unfathomable depths of an individual, centre of emotions that only God can search out and test [Jer 11:20; 12:2; Isa 29:13].
• Bowels: emotions that can be deeply agitated; seething fermenting, troubling [Job 30:27; Lam 1:20].
• Inwards-Belly: emphasising the unique character of human spiritual nature in contrast to the external world [Phil 3:19; Jn 7:38].
• Bones: the basic structural element in man; spiritually and emotio
well as physically [Ps 35:10; Pr 3:8], they suffer seismic shock in emotional distress [Jer 23:9].
The other very important emphasis of 'leb' is personhood in terms of their inner direction; the deliberate conscious activity of the will and the responsibility it brings.
What comes from an individuals heart is 'the distinct property of the whole person' making them responsible for it. The 'responsible will' is central to the biblical concept of the 'heart'. Making God's will our own requires a new heart [Ezk 36:26].
Paul in his writings uses 'kardia' with all the senses of the Hebrew 'leb', but enlarges it by the introduction of two other words that emphasis 'will' and ' responsibilities':-
• Mind [nous]: human intellectual capacity [Phil 4:7] which may be good or bad. It may be immoral, vain, corrupt defiled [Rm 1:28; Eph 4:17]. It contains God's law [Rm 7:23] and in a Christian is renewed transforming life [Rm 12:2], imparting the mind of Christ [ICor 2:16].
• Conscience [suneidessis]: human faculty for moral judgment. It can be defiled [ICor 8:7] or pure [ITim 3:9]. It is that consciousness of 'being right within one's heart' [Rm2:15].
So 'leb' is conscious spiritual activity, stressing the sense of responsibility.
Contrast : Nephesh, Ruah, Leb
It will be quite clear that 'nephesh', 'ruah', and 'leb' overlap one another at significant points.
The distinctions between 'nephesh' and 'leb' at the higher level of understanding is very difficult. They are often used interchangeably [cf Ex 6:9 with Jg 16:16; Ecc 7:8 with Job 6:11], and yet they are not the same. The distinction is found back at their roots.
The overlap between all three is to be expected when we remember each is considering the whole man from a slightly different angle. Their contrasting stresses may be seen as:-
• Nephesh : instinctive 'animal' activity.
• Leb : conscious spiritual activity.
• Ruah : personhood open to the influence of the nature of God.
'Nephesh' and 'leb' stand in contrast with 'ruah' between them. 'Nephesh' and 'ruah' stress the 'lower' and 'higher' levels of consciousness.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Numbers 23:10 Let my (nephesh=soul) die the death of the righteous
Judges 16:30 Let my (nephesh=soul) die with the philistines
Ezekiel 18:4 The soul (nephesh) that sins is the one who will die.

So much for soul immortality as it is simply not taught in scripture.

Here is the defiintion of 'soul'

Nephesh - Psyche - SoulThe important passage in Genesis 2:7 sets the scene for this 'window - word' into the nature of personhood. An individual becomes a 'nephesh' from the infusion of divine breath into moulded dust. In physical terms 'nephesh' means, 'neck', 'throat', 'gullet' and came to mean 'life', that 'vital motion' which distinguishes a living being from a corpse.

'Nephesh' has such a variety of senses that we must make a careful definition in each particular case. Meanings overlap and are used side by side. It is easy to end up with contradictory statements about 'nephesh'. Here are some of the central statements about 'nephesh':-
• it is that vital life which is shared by both humans and animals [Gen 2:19].
• it is life that is bound up with the body, blood is the vehicle of nephesh [Dt 12:23], at death it dies [Nu 23:10] draining away with the blood, with resuscitation it 'returns'; not that it has gone anywhere.
• it can denote 'the living individual themselves' [Gen 14:21], and can replace the personal pronoun to create special emphasis [Ps 42:6], God uses it of himself [Am 6:8].
• it is strongly instinctive [animal] activity; desire, vital urge, feeling, emotion, mood [Dt 14:26].
• it is feelings and emotions of a spiritual kind; grief, pain, joy, peace, love [Ezk 27:31]; its highest expression is longing for God [Ps 25:1].
The New Testament uses the Greek 'psyche' with the sense of the Hebrew 'nephesh'. Paul's writings are significant for how rarely he uses it. The Synoptics are interesting in that one third of their usage refers to life beyond death [Mt 10:28,39; 16:25-26; Mk 8:35-37; Lk 9:24; 21:19], due to the overlap of present and future in the Kingdom of God; revolutionary in terms of its Hebrew roots.
This 'nephesh' is primarily the life of the whole person in terms of strongly instinctive [animal] activity. It reflects the glory and richness of God's gift of life to him though susceptible to death. It is not an independent substance which, as many have argued, survives death.

A soul survives death, go read your bible and put down the jewish encyclopedia - it'll do you good. If man's soul didn't survive death then there is no significance for salvation and judgment. If the soul is not an independent "substance" that survives death, then all the writers of the Bible had it wrong. Isaiah 14 --> men of egypt and babylon are within Sheol, conscious of themselves, those around, and those that enter. Rich man and lazarus --> both of whom were aware of their disposition in the after life - a rabbinical parable taught by jesus himself. The human soul not only persists death, it is conscious after death and is of an eternal nature (new jerusalem/gehenna being eternal destinations), with eternal simply meaning "without" end. Like I said, you know not the difference between immortality and eternality, I cannot expect any correct opinions and/or interpretations from you on this matter.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

I think it is clearly a case of definition. Nowhere does it state that the resurrection is reunion of soul and body

Despite the fact that every single time a resurrection takes place in the Bible this is exactly what happens, the soul returns to the body. Please stop bombarding me with this baseless theology