Evolution and Religion

[Hydra009]

Hi Troof,

After taking this all in, I have a few points to make:

#1 - How do you define "Christian"? If you define it as the YECs do, then yes TEs are not Christians. In fact, extremely few Christians would actually be Christians.

A problem I notice with atheists sometimes is that they adopt some of the same modes of thinking that the fundamentalists do: namely, the same definition of "True" Christianity and viewing mainline or liberal Christians as "compromisers" who aren't "True Christians". I hope that's not the case here.

#2 - No part of evolution, or science in general, states that life is with or without a spiritual component. Notto is right about that. I don't believe that souls exist - but I don't kid myself into thinking that this is a scientific conclusion.

#3 - "Nice idea, but the logical conclusion from this argument is that he put the matter in place and sat back and did nothing else. Then billions of years later he decided that just one species of life on earth should believe that he exists."

Again, this is a creationist argument - that God is somehow lacking if the universe wasn't created on a timescale of 6 days. This is most assuredly bad logic, because for an atemporal being, time is irrelevant.

#4 - I'm puzzled by statements like this "You on the other hand assert that God exists and will not consider that you might be wrong." as it seems like it belongs more in GA than in Crevo. This is common, because evolution/creationism discussions often walk the fine line between religion and science, but try to leave the discussions about whether or not God exists to GA.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

Please do not feed the creationist sock puppet!

Could the moderators please find out which YEC has opened this phoney troof account and put an end to this lying and stupidity?

 

[LittleNipper]

The world of today is a confusing place. I believe that the ONLY persons who are Christian are those the have placed their faith and trust in the LORD JESUS CHRIST for salvation from their sinful inheritance ---- by having a personal relationship with HIM through the HOLY SPIRIT. Anything less is just a cheap immatation and of no eternal value.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

I suggest that it is you who will not listen.

I am not arguing from assertion. I am arguing from logic, that is quite different.

More importantly you are not arguing from science, you are arguing from philosophy. You make a great many assertions and when challenged you fall back not on research, not on evidence but on “logic”. The problem is that you argue fallacious logic. You insist absence of evidence is evidence of absence - something the scientific method specifically denies. You insist that logic is as good as evidence - something the scientific method specifically denies. You insist that if there is any truth to the metaphysical then science should be able to investigate it - despite the fact that the scientific method specifically denies this. You insist that evolution and theism are incompatible based on nothing more than your insistence this is logic, knowing full well both theists and atheists disagree with you. You build that assertion on nothing more than a “no true Scotsman” fallacy and an argument form incredulity. Much like a YEC.


If you really wanted to understand this you would have read Popper and/or Kuhn the last time I suggested it so you could understand what science is and is not and what claims it does and does not make.

Ghost

 

[Edx]

I have recently become convinced that it is completely illogical to believe in a God (or Gods) and accept that evolution is true.

I know that many Christians (and advocates of other religions) accept that evolution is true, but I cannot understand how they manage to do this.

It seems to me that the only way to be both Christian and to accept evolution is to only believe bits of the Christian faith, and/or only accept part of the evolutionary explanation of life on earth.

Can any Christians persuade me that they fully accept the evolutionary explanation of life on earth and still believe in God?

As if it was reasonable and logical to believe to begin with.

You are, apparently, an atheist, so you should understand this.

To be a Christian you have to ignore a whole bunch of things about the Bible. Why would anyone choose to still believe in the Bible when the OT is such a repugnant source of morality? Thats right, they have to ignore it. They also have to ignore the absurdity of the idea that in order to forgve us god had to be born as a human god-man and get himself killed.

So in other words, you need faith to be a Christian with or without literal belief. Creationists are however far more unreasonable in their faith. Non-literalists believe in the absence of evidence, literalists believe in the face of evidence.

 

[Edx]

So God create all the matter in the universe and set the physical and chemical laws by which it would interact and the sat back for billions of years and did nothing until 2000 years ago when he decided that on type of creature on one little planet needed to believe in him so he intervened and gave us Christ.

Is that what you believe?

Creationists are so sad. They think believeing in evolution and the Bible means people doubt the Bible. Why has it not occured to them, even though people likely tell them often enough, that Creationism makes the Bible RIDICULOUS. Im far less likely to believe the Bible if I have to believe that Genesis is literally true. Why cant they understand that people that doubt the Bible not based on the literal Genesis being true, but because theyve read the REST of it. And people that DO doubt the Bible are only going to be more convinced its wrong if you're sitting there telling them Adam and Eve were real, the earth is only 6,000 years old and god flooded the entire world apart from a few guys on a boat.

 

[LittleNipper]

Creationists are so sad. They think believeing in evolution and the Bible means people doubt the Bible. Why has it not occured to them, even though people likely tell them often enough, that Creationism makes the Bible RIDICULOUS. Im far less likely to believe the Bible if I have to believe that Genesis is literally true. Why cant they understand that people that doubt the Bible not based on the literal Genesis being true, but because theyve read the REST of it. And people that DO doubt the Bible are only going to be more convinced its wrong if you're sitting there telling them Adam and Eve were real, the earth is only 6,000 years old and god flooded the entire world apart from a few guys on a boat.

Evolution insists fossils are the result of uniformitarian processes that have always been and always will be over eons. Creationism understands that the FLOOD was a catastrophic event that created the fossils at a specific time.... Creationism does not make the Bible look rediculous. Poor unstudied and agenda oriented christians undermind the perception of the Scriptures....

 

[LittleNipper]

Creationists are so sad. They think believeing in evolution and the Bible means people doubt the Bible. Why has it not occured to them, even though people likely tell them often enough, that Creationism makes the Bible RIDICULOUS. Im far less likely to believe the Bible if I have to believe that Genesis is literally true. Why cant they understand that people that doubt the Bible not based on the literal Genesis being true, but because theyve read the REST of it. And people that DO doubt the Bible are only going to be more convinced its wrong if you're sitting there telling them Adam and Eve were real, the earth is only 6,000 years old and god flooded the entire world apart from a few guys on a boat.

If you need an excuse in order to be a Christian, you never will be one.

 

[Edx]

Evolution insists fossils are the result of uniformitarian processes that have always been and always will be over eons. Creationism understands that the FLOOD was a catastrophic event that created the fossils at a specific time.... Creationism does not make the Bible look rediculous. Poor unstudied and agenda oriented christians undermind the perception of the Scriptures....

Creationism and people like YOU make Christianity look ridiculous.

 

[Edx]

If you need an excuse in order to be a Christian, you never will be one.

Where did I say anything about needing an excuse to be a Christian?