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Your Calvinist faith tradition. Why are so many Protestants blind of the fact that they adhere to their own faith traditions.What faith tradition? Is the letter to the Ephesians my church tradition? Is it not God's word?
Your Calvinist faith tradition. Why are so many Protestants blind of the fact that they adhere to their own faith traditions.
Ps no where in Scripture does it teach Sola Scriptura, no where. That is a man made doctrine and tradition,
THE Book of Revelation says that not to add or subtract to/from it. A perfect example of poor interpretation.Revelation warns us not to add or subtract from the letter. It is good to apply that to the Scriptures.
Yes it does. Anything novel in theology isn't a good thing. Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are two perfect examples.When men and women of other era's start adding and subtracting, it leads to heresy.
Amen. Wished Calvin would have believed that.God spoke. It is sufficient for us. Let the Sovereign King speak and rule. Let all others follow.
THE Book of Revelation says that not to add or subtract to/from it. A perfect example of poor interpretation.
Yes it does. Anything novel in theology isn't a good thing. Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are two perfect examples.
Amen. Wished Calvin would have believed that.
But you cannot provide any Catholic doctrine that contradicts God's Word. Show me somewhere where it says that children are not to be baptized.Sola Scriptura
Anything that contradicts God's word is anathema. Infant baptism is unsupported in God's word. You are desperately pulling figment out of your imagination and calling them truth.
I will bet you hundreds of dollars that I read and hear more Scripture on any given day of the week than you do. Meaning I don't, and my Church doesn't, ignore Scripture at all. By the way, we don't have any leaders who think they're more authoritative than God's teaching.God teaches us how we are saved...in the Scriptures. He tells us in Ephesians 1 and 2. Yet, you boldly ignore God's word in order to cling to a figment of some church leaders imagination as being more authoritative than God's teaching. Stop it.
It was.I was being somewhat sarcastic. The Orthodox Church is probably the least ecumenical of any Christian group. When the Ecumenical Patriarch met with the Pope, he drew great criticism from certain monastics on Mt. Athos.
Given what I have read of the thread, I suspect you also harbor some animosity against the Orthodox Church, but I think it is worth commenting that we find an instance of infant baptism in the Acts of the Apostles. Perhaps this was already brought up and rebutted. I did not read that deeply in the thread.
What the problem is...is that you have a different understanding of what constitutes "God's Word". We believe that God gifted men with the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth.It's not animosity. It's an expectation of excellence to God's word. All humans are by nature flawed, which is why all traditions must be measured by God's word.
You haven't shown any tradition which is in contradiction of God's Word.When a tradition is in contradiction of God's word, it must be abandoned...regardless of which church denomination is promoting it. My frustration comes when humans place their faith in church traditions above God's word. This should never be.
LOLBut you cannot provide any Catholic doctrine that contradicts God's Word. Show me somewhere where it says that children are not to be baptized.
I will bet you hundreds of dollars that I read and hear more Scripture on any given day of the week than you do. Meaning I don't, and my Church doesn't, ignore Scripture at all. By the way, we don't have any leaders who think they're more authoritative than God's teaching.
Keep it up, Donald Jr.
You add extra teachings to the Bible. You give undo credence to false teachers because you refuse to have the Bible be the standard of measurement against the heresies in your church.What the problem is...is that you have a different understanding of what constitutes "God's Word". We believe that God gifted men with the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth. You haven't shown any tradition which is in contradiction of God's Word.
But applying your understanding of Revelation is adding to God's word, no?You and I agree on the book of Revelation, but the application can/should be made to all the books in God's word. We don't add or subtract.
No, it's interpreting God's Word correctly. Families include children. Households include children. It is true that not all families or households have children, but to say that none of them did is error.Infant baptism for salvation is clearly adding to the Scripture something that is not there.
Again, we agree. Novel ideas from any Era that are not biblical must be tossed out. (infant baptism for salvation is a perfect example.)
Sola Scriptura is an example by which novel heresy is disallowed.
You should fully support God's word as the sole measurement against the heresies of men.
We find baptism for salvation, and whole households being baptized. Households include children, more often than not. Case closed.LOL
Infant baptism for salvation - You can't find anything on the subject. That's the point.
Paul speaks of it in 1 Corinthians, and Maccabees as well.Purgatory - nowhere in the Bible.
Never a teaching of the Church, though it was used that way by some individual Catholics. I think it's poignant to note that most people who criticize the Catholic Church criticize them for not adhering to the Catholic faith.Indulgences - people buying other folks salvation.
We don't believe that good works save you.Merits of the Saints - Grace points from the good works clan.
To prove this you will need to go to the Catechism and pull quotes directly from that. I don't care how some priests or faithful carry out their faith.The Roman church is chalk full of non-biblical teachings that must be tossed out as heresy.
I don't cling to any anti-biblical practices. Non-Biblical are not prohibited. Just because something is non-Biblical doesn't make it a heresy, FYI.Quit clinging to such non-biblical heresies.
So what? We burn candles. Shrug.You add extra teachings to the Bible.
A completely incorrect statement. I think you know better, which would make it a lie.You give undo credence to false teachers because you refuse to have the Bible be the standard of measurement against the heresies in your church.
We don't "add teachings from fallible sources and call them inspired by God." We allow the Holy Spirit to teach us, even to this day. As for cult of personality, I don't pick and choose who I follow. The Holy Spirit does it for me. I TRUST the Holy Spirit, and I trust Jesus in what he says.You have zero ability to discern truth when you add teachings from fallible sources and call them inspired by God. You set yourself up to follow a cult of personality.
You prove my point. Thank you.So what? We burn candles. Shrug. A completely incorrect statement. I think you know better, which would make it a lie.
We don't "add teachings from fallible sources and call them inspired by God." We allow the Holy Spirit to teach us, even to this day. As for cult of personality, I don't pick and choose who I follow. The Holy Spirit does it for me. I TRUST the Holy Spirit, and I trust Jesus in what he says.
But applying your understanding of Revelation is adding to God's word, no?You and I agree on the book of Revelation, but the application can/should be made to all the books in God's word. We don't add or subtract.
No, it's interpreting God's Word correctly. Families include children. Households include children. It is true that not all families or households have children, but to say that none of them did is error.Infant baptism for salvation is clearly adding to the Scripture something that is not there.
Again, we agree. Novel ideas from any Era that are not biblical must be tossed out. (infant baptism for salvation is a perfect example.)
Sola Scriptura is an example by which novel heresy is disallowed.
You should fully support God's word as the sole measurement against the heresies of men.
And you prove mine.You prove my point. Thank you.
So why do you follow the adding and subtracting then? You really are getting confusing here.You and I agree on the book of Revelation, but the application can/should be made to all the books in God's word. We don't add or subtract. Infant baptism for salvation is clearly adding to the Scripture something that is not there.
Concerning Baptism, what do you think it is? What does Baptism do in your opinion?Again, we agree. Novel ideas from any Era that are not biblical must be tossed out. (infant baptism for salvation is a perfect example.)
Considering Sola Scriptura is a novel heresy, and what you are espousing is not taught in Scripture, stop it!Sola Scriptura is an example by which novel heresy is disallowed.
You should fully support God's word as the sole measurement against the heresies of men.
Jesus spoke Scripture when people questioned him. He didn't revert to the traditions of the priesthood, Pharisee's and Saducee's as his source. He didn't declare that tradition had equality with Scripture. He spoke by quoting His Father's words in Scripture.So why do you follow the adding and subtracting then? You really are getting confusing here.
Concerning Baptism, what do you think it is? What does Baptism do in your opinion?
Considering Sola Scriptura is a novel heresy, and what you are espousing is not taught in Scripture, stop it!
I see. You want me to follow your man-made warping of Scripture. No thanks. Why should I bind myself to your non-Biblical ideas? That makes no sense. Stop it!Jesus spoke Scripture when people questioned him. He didn't revert to the traditions of the priesthood, Pharisee's and Saducee's as his source. He didn't declare that tradition had equality with Scripture. He spoke by quoting His Father's words in Scripture.
Why do you pine for the teachings of the Pharisee's and Saducee's rather than God's word?
Stop giving authority to heretical teachings from your church leaders.
It's not animosity. It's an expectation of excellence to God's word. All humans are by nature flawed, which is why all traditions must be measured by God's word. When a tradition is in contradiction of God's word, it must be abandoned...regardless of which church denomination is promoting it. My frustration comes when humans place their faith in church traditions above God's word. This should never be.
Understood.
Speaking as an (Eastern) Orthodox Christian, I would state that it is the Church that Christ left to us and not "the Bible" (τὰ βιβλία - a term coined, I believe, by Archbishop John Chrysostom in the 4th century) and that the New Testament (and arguably, to some extent, even the Old) came out of the Church and not vice versa. Would you disagree with this view?
This does not mean, however, that the Church's practices and beliefs should be contrary to what has been witnessed to by the Church previously in Holy Scripture. Scripture is a rule of sorts in this regard (the Greek word used would be "canon"). I think you are arguing that Scripture clearly states that infant baptism is not "Biblical" (or, if you will, "canonical"). What in Scripture, to your mind, makes this clear?
Thank you in advance for your reading my response.
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