Evidence for widespread systemic racism.

[BNR32FAN]

It's because we're looking at the whole system. The topic, once again, is systemic racism. The topic is not your racist uncle who uses the N-word at family gatherings.

Snd like I said the same exact data you provided could just as easily support the theory that Latinos and blacks are more prone to committing crimes than whites. Without the specific details about each case the information is inconclusive.

 

[essentialsaltes]

a research paper that I can’t see the actual applications. Like I said before, I believe what I see in everyday life over what someone I don’t know tells me that I can’t actually see.

If you looked at Appendix 1, you'd actually see what went into the correspondence.

 

[Hammster]

If you looked at Appendix 1, you'd actually see what went into the correspondence.

Do we see the actual applications?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Do we see the actual applications?

The study was about people inquiring with loan originators for information about a loan. Appendix 1 shows the options in the 'Chinese menu' or MadLib for constructing the correspondence. Hi/Hello/Hi there/Hey... all the options and names chosen at random from the lists.

 

[A_Thinker]

The system is impersonal. People can be bias towards ethnicities, which is sinful. But for a system to be bias, a person has to be behind it.

Systems (within government) which are supposed to serve each citizen without bias ... can be responsible for systemic bias ... by simply turning a blind eye to it ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Then it isn’t racism.

It is if they're basing policy on race ...like we can sell our properties for more ... if we keep out certain people groups ...

 

[Hammster]

Systems (within government) which are supposed to serve each citizen without bias ... can be responsible for systemic bias ... by simply turning a blind eye to it ...

I don’t doubt that. But there needs to be evidence to support it.

 

[Hammster]

It is if they're basing policy on race ...like we can sell our properties for more ... if we keep out certain people groups ...

If that’s the case, then show it.

 

[A_Thinker]

I don’t doubt that. But there needs to be evidence to support it.

Here's the effect. And there have been studies, which we've discussed before, which locates bias in the American justice system.

It may not be mandated or dictated, but it is allowed ...

• Illegal drug use does not vary significantly by race and ethnicity, but blacks are more than twice as likely to be arrested for drug use than the general population
• Black and Hispanic drivers were somewhat more likely to be stopped than whites, and three times as likely as whites to be searched and arrested
• Blacks and Latinos are more likely than whites to be denied bail, to have a higher money bond set, and to be detained because they cannot pay their bond
• Prosecutors are more likely to charge people of color with crimes that carry heavier sentences than whites. Federal prosecutors, for example, are twice as likely to charge African Americans with offenses that carry a mandatory minimum sentence than similarly situated whites

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you looked at Appendix 1, you'd actually see what went into the correspondence.

they provide the actual applications?

 

[essentialsaltes]

they provide the actual applications?

See #64. All of the text used to construct the messages is there.

 

[BNR32FAN]

See #64. All of the text used to construct the messages is there.

All of these loan applications are going to be subject to a credit check, so I’ll ask again how are fake names going to be confirmed in the credit check?

 

[essentialsaltes]

All of these loan applications are going to be subject to a credit check, so I’ll ask again how are fake names going to be confirmed in the credit check?

These were requests for information from loan originators, rather than applications.

 

[BNR32FAN]

These were requests for information from loan originators, rather than applications.

ok, because the your original quote said these were identical loan applications.

Identical loan applications with stereotypical black names are equivalent to having a credit score 71 points lower

And their findings were a mere 1.8% discrepancy. So that’s like 3 people out of 200 didn’t receive a reply. I’m assuming that they sent an equal amount of white names as black names so that means that out of 200 emails sent 100 whites received a reply and 97 blacks received a reply if all whites even received a reply. This hardly seems like an example of systematic racism if 98.2% of the emails with black names received a reply.

 

[essentialsaltes]

And their findings were a mere 1.8% discrepancy.

In response rate. There were also differences in the rates being offered. "equivalent to having a credit score 71 points lower"

This hardly seems like an example of systematic racism

Black people are being treated in a statistically different (and worse) way. What more do you want?

 

[BNR32FAN]

In response rate. There were also differences in the rates being offered. "equivalent to having a credit score 71 points lower"

Their expected rates are listed on their website as a average rate available to everyone which is subject to change depending on a person’s credit score. They can’t give an actual interest rate without a credit score and since these people didn’t fill out an actual loan application they can’t have possibly been given an accurate interest rate.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Black people are being treated in a statistically different (and worse) way. What more do you want?

98.2 % of black names received a reply and no one can get an actual interest rate without submitting a loan application. You did say that they did not submit an actual loan application. So the more we dig into this the more preposterous it’s beginning to sound. First you said they submitted identical loan applications then you say they weren’t actually loan applications, then we find out that they received a higher interest rate when they haven’t even submitted a loan application? Nobody does that. It doesn’t make sense. That’s why I’m finding it so hard to believe.

 

[Aussie Pete]

This has come up in another thread, and I didn’t want to derail it further. I’ve been told that denying widespread systemic racism is giving it a pass. I’d hate to do that because I hate racism. So here’s the chance to show that systemic racism is a widespread problem.

The challenge is to define systemic racism, and show evidence that it exists.

Ready? Go.

There is no definition of systemic racism. People like Morgan Freeman and Danny Glover say no. There are countless successful blacks in all walks of life.

Others say yes, they have been discriminated against. Is that systemic? If the "system" allows blacks to succeed, how can it be systemic?

It's actually an insult to blacks to say that they are the victims of racism. People have choices and make decisions. Some get up out the gutter and succeed, white and black. Some prefer to blame everyone else for their problems.

If you want to know about real racism, go to India. The cast system is true racism. And that really is systemic.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Others say yes, they have been discriminated against. Is that systemic? If the "system" allows blacks to succeed, how can it be systemic?

If the playing field (system) is not level, and one group of people has to work uphill while the other gets to coast downhill, this doesn't prevent individuals of either type from succeeding. But it's harder for one group than the other.

 

[Aussie Pete]

If the playing field (system) is not level, and one group of people has to work uphill while the other gets to coast downhill, this doesn't prevent individuals of either type from succeeding. But it's harder for one group than the other.

The desperately poor whites would agree with you, as would poor blacks. The playing field is never level. But can you imagine a black president being elected 70 years ago? White people voted for someone that whites may have lynched not that long ago.