Everything is about to unravel...(Moved from Christian Advice)

[Sketcher]

I have admitted this problem to God almost daily for the past decade and have found no release or freedom from it no matter how much prayer I've packed into it. I realise I need to bring it to someone of spiritual authority very soon. Its something that must be done sooner than later. Everything is just so overwhelming. I just wish there was CONSISTENCY with this issue. there are so many different opinions and no one christian seems to be able to agree upon why people are gay, and that really bothers me. I know i'm not the only when i say that i wish i could have a five minute sit down interview with God!

I understand this. There are sins that run in my family that I have a lot of problems with. If God sets me free from them in practice on this earth, then awesome. If not, I'm just going to strive against them and do what I can to be as good as I can be, so help me God.

 

[DreamsAreFree]

The OP asked me what I believe causes someone to become attracted to the same sex. I responded with what seem to be some of the main causes and characteristics I have personally seen in gay men over the years. There is no one answer, but I was trying to bring across a couple common threads.

Sexual sin and abuse has a lot more spiritual ramifications than many may realize.

Abuse is sin on the part of the perpetrator, not the victim. There may be ramifications for the victim but this is not a result of demonisation or sin on their part. It is the result of betrayal, hurt trust, being used and an association of sexuality with discomfort and an inappropriate power dynamic.

I have worked with enough abuse survivors to know what I am talking about.

 

[jason202]

Try a women and you will find you do have a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

Not helpful.

About as helpful as me telling someone to eat mushrooms to overcome their dislike for the taste of mushrooms.

 

[jason202]

The question I have is do you want to change, or do you want to avoid angering God? No one wants to anger God. But that doesn't mean your heart is right and truly wants to change. I've been through the same thing, but regarding different sins. I wanted to change so as to not anger the Lord, but if given my own choice on the matter would have stayed as I was. Until your heart is in line with God's will (and not just your mind) there will may not be any release from it.

No one knows why someone is gay. Personally I think it's a product of environment and upbringing. Do I have scientific evidence? No, but God isn't going to make someone gay and then tell them they can't be. That would be like saying God makes some people into serial killers. It just doesn't make sense.

I want what God wants for me. For my heart to be aligned with His. To be all that he has created me to be. Right now i am praying, reading, researching, and pondering this topic of sexuality. I understand what you're saying.. that i need to move away from just wanting to superficially keep my brownie points with God in check, but to be completely in tune with what He actually wants, and seeking nothing but that.

Absolutely, a few yrs ago I completely 100% believed that all homosexuality is completely detestable and I FREQUENTLY prayed for it to go. I've spent the greater part of the last decade hating myself for it. I'm not keen on jumping to knee jerk conclusions, but as I mature and learn more about myself, and others in my position, I'm coming to an understanding that it is definitely not something chosen. This then brings me to a predicament i must resolve, as i don't believe God would make me gay and then completely detest and abhor it... that wouldn't make sense in the least bit. i think Christians need to be careful and wise with how they consume the word of God. I believe there's more to it than meets the eye. There's more to the mysteries of God than what we're fed constantly in the Christian sub cultures we're immersed in.

As i've said, my number one desire is to seek Jesus and love Him. i am currently assessing how to do so with the hand i've been dealt.

 

[jason202]

I was thinking about these verses yesterday, when I read your post:

Rev 14: 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

And you are right that it is better to be single then to be married, but when Paul speaks about this he mention that it is a gift from God to live in celibacy, and I find it unlikely that homosexuality can be considered a gift from God (I think it have to do with our fallen nature), and it don't seem like Paul was bitter about it either, like you seem to be. You have clearly expressed that you don't enjoy to be homosexual, and that you would prefer to be heterosexual if you had a choice.

I am not going to trivialize it and say it is about choice or suggest that it is demons inside of you that make you feel like that or anything like that. But remember that the bible says that nothing is impossible for God, so I don't think you should settle with the idea that it is the will of God that you feel like you do, since you seem to long for something better.

2 cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

And how you can see anything new if you think that there are limits in what God can do, and therefore hang on the old man?

If you agree that homosexual lusts are a sin, then you also know as a Christian that Jesus came to take our sins on Himself, so we could be free. So then you can let your chains go, you don't need to have them on you anymore.

So don't be bitter, and even if you seem to have made your mind up on this to tell the people close to you what you have been struggling with (I don't think that is a bad idea), then don't forget that there is always hope and I pray that you will find a future that you can feel content with and not a life where you feel that your destiny is a life of pain and sorrow.

God bless you.

Thank you for your encouragement. God bless you too.

 

[wonderwaleye]

It's time to shake the dust off our feet and leave.


"

2 Timothy
Chapter 2:​

22 So turn from youthful desires and pursue righteousness, faith,love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord with purity of heart. 23 Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels. 24 A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, 25 correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they may return to their senses out of the devil's snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will.

Titus
Chapter 3​

9 Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile. 10 After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic, 11 realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned. "




ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[EazyMack]

Jason202, you defend the idea that this is not a "choice," that it's just there. I can understand this perspective & agree to it. Hopefully you will find the following examples to be relevant:

I, for example, have NEVER been tempted by drugs or alcohol. Therefore, I've never even puffed on a cigarette or taken a sip of beer. Not that I believe that drinking alchohol is a sin in and of itself, only when in excess. But you get the point. But even though these things were never in the least appealing to me, what about the gazillions of other people who've at least been tempted enough to try them? And what about the millions of addicts and alcoholics we have on our hands?

I guess I'm reiterating a point made by someone else previously in this thread. We are not all tempted by the same things, nor do we choose what is tempting to us. Some temptations may not be as common as others. And some temptations are more accepted by the world than others. Getting drunk is accepted in many circles as being "cool" or "funny," whereas smoking crack cocaine is more widely frowned upon. But it still happens.

Either way, we all need help for something. We all need a savior. We all need to repent & pray. Just not all for the same reasons.

Hopefully this lends somewhat of a different & helpful perspective. God bless!

It's time to shake the dust off our feet and leave.

Always using scripture to put yourself above others as you duck out of a discussion.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Jason202,


Always using scripture to put yourself above others as you duck out of a discussion.

Dear Easy

I'm sorry you feel GOD'S WORD places anyone above others. If you will read the verse quoted you would understand this " homosexual " is not going to change. With all the help he has received here is to no avail. GOD knew there comes a point you drive a DEAD HORSE into the ground and gave us instruction on how to deal with the like. Yes I am going to comply with GOD'S instructions and if you feel that places me above others, all I can say is you have made a judgement on me. Need I say more?






ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[EazyMack]

I'm not the one who feels it places anyone above others.

How can you decide, just that easily, that it's been to no avail? He came here seeking "Christian Advice," did he not? I don't condemn so quickly, sorry.

As with all topics in this forum, and at all times in life, one can never know when a seed planted today will grow. Some seeds take immediately, some seeds take 5, 10, 20 years or more. So what else to do but keep planting?

If you feel you can say no more, then say no more. But don't spit on his thread to make your statement.

God bless.

 

[wonderwaleye]

I'm not the one who feels it places anyone above others.

How can you decide, just that easily, that it's been to no avail? He came here seeking "Christian Advice," did he not? I don't condemn so quickly, sorry.

As with all topics in this forum, and at all times in life, one can never know when a seed planted today will grow. Some seeds take immediately, some seeds take 5, 10, 20 years or more. So what else to do but keep planting?

If you feel you can say no more, then say no more. But don't spit on his thread to make your statement.

God bless.

Don't you feel there comes a time when you thrown enough seed on the ROCKS and it's time to move on to fertile ground?


" 2 Thessalonians
Chapter 3:




13 But you, brothers, do not be remiss in doing good.



14 If anyone does not obey our word as expressed in this letter, take note of this person not to associate with him, that he may be put to shame.



15 Do not regard him as an enemy but admonish him as a brother. "




I really don't feel that GOD has spit when he gave us instruction.







ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[bsd13]

Dear Easy

I'm sorry you feel GOD'S WORD places anyone above others. If you will read the verse quoted you would understand this " homosexual " is not going to change. With all the help he has received here is to no avail. GOD knew there comes a point you drive a DEAD HORSE into the ground and gave us instruction on how to deal with the like. Yes I am going to comply with GOD'S instructions and if you feel that places me above others, all I can say is you have made a judgement on me. Need I say more?

And you've just spoken/written a curse over his life when you said "this homosexual is not going to change". What does God say about that?

...every idle word...

God didn't stop communicating with His people when the Bible was compiled. He still talks to us to this very day and gives us instruction through His Spirit. If you feel led to bow out then by all means do so, but please stop declaring people a lost cause and trying to make people move on as if you have some great spiritual authority.

Sorry OP, for hijacking your thread.

 

[wonderwaleye]

And you've just spoken/written a curse over his life when you said "this homosexual is not going to change". What does God say about that?

...every idle word...

God didn't stop communicating with His people when the Bible was compiled. He still talks to us to this very day and gives us instruction through His Spirit. If you feel led to bow out then by all means do so, but please stop declaring people a lost cause and trying to make people move on as if you have some great spiritual authority.

Sorry OP, for hijacking your thread.

" Titus
Chapter 3:



9 Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.




10 After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic,




11 realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned. "




What more can I say?






ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[bsd13]

" Titus
Chapter 3:



9 Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.




10 After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic,




11 realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned. "




What more can I say?

This isn't an argument about the law. Nor a quarrel and certainly not a dispute about genealogy.

Someone came asking for advice and help about a very real issue and your reaction is to tell them they're going to hell. When they don't jump for joy and immediately become something different than they've become over many years at the "revelation" of this information you figure it's time to shake the dust off your feet and move on.

Sorry, but I don't believe God meant it to be that quick and easy. If that were the case I could walk up to anyone on the street and say "Without Jesus you're going to hell." And walk away because I've just summed up the gospel in one sentence.

Anyhow we can argue elsewhere if you like. If you're led to shake the dust from your feet then so be it. I'm not. Maybe I will be, but right now, no.

 

[wonderwaleye]

This isn't an argument about the law. Nor a quarrel and certainly not a dispute about genealogy.

Someone came asking for advice and help about a very real issue and your reaction is to tell them they're going to hell. When they don't jump for joy and immediately become something different than they've become over many years at the "revelation" of this information you figure it's time to shake the dust off your feet and move on.

Sorry, but I don't believe God meant it to be that quick and easy. If that were the case I could walk up to anyone on the street and say "Without Jesus you're going to hell." And walk away because I've just summed up the gospel in one sentence.

Anyhow we can argue elsewhere if you like. If you're led to shake the dust from your feet then so be it. I'm not. Maybe I will be, but right now, no.

Laws:

" Romans
Chapter 13:




13 let us conduct ourselves properly as in the day, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in promiscuity and licentiousness, not in rivalry and jealousy.



14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.





Romans
Chapter 1:






26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,





27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. "



"

2 Timothy
Chapter 2:​

22 So turn from youthful desires and pursue righteousness, faith,love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord with purity of heart.




23 Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels.




24 A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant,




25 correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth,





26 and that they may return to their senses out of the devil's snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will. "



So you wish to help him in his evil deed?



" 1 Thessalonians
Chapter 5:



22 Refrain from every kind of evil. "



Need I say more. Of would you rather HELP him to continue?







ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

Thank you for your honesty and maturity. It means a lot. Perhaps the admission of your asexuality will be just a little something to help those who still think that God wants every single last male and female on this earth to be on an altar marrying someone when clearly he didn't design it that way for everyone. All the best with everything!

You're welcome! Please keep all of us here updated! Is there anything else anyone can do for you?

 

[kellyc]

hi jason! i am sorry you are struggling. speaking as a woman PLEASE DO NOT TRY ONE TO SEE IF IT MAKES YOU STRAIGHT for heaven's sakes. that was insulting advice i am sorry to say.

let me ask you something. do you want to live a gay lifestyle, having same sex relationships? it kind of sounds like you are leaning towards this. i don't see a conflict in being a gay christian, unmarried and therefore celibate. the conflict lies in your committing sins and still saying you are living as God wishes. since everything works together for good, i wonder what this part of you is meant to be used for. have you ever read about the thorn in paul's flesh? a gay christian friend of mine was able to relate to that, in fact he even wondered if lust (gay or not) might have been the thorn paul had.

 

[Nilla]

Mod Hat On​

Thread moved from Christian Advice to
Struggles with sexuality.

Please remember to post within CF rules and the FSG's for this area. And to be nice to each other.
​

Mod Hat Off​

 

[bsd13]

Laws:

" Romans
Chapter 13:




13 let us conduct ourselves properly as in the day, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in promiscuity and licentiousness, not in rivalry and jealousy.



14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.





Romans
Chapter 1:






26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,





27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. "



"

2 Timothy
Chapter 2:​

22 So turn from youthful desires and pursue righteousness, faith,love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord with purity of heart.




23 Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels.




24 A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant,




25 correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth,





26 and that they may return to their senses out of the devil's snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will. "



So you wish to help him in his evil deed?



" 1 Thessalonians
Chapter 5:



22 Refrain from every kind of evil. "



Need I say more. Of would you rather HELP him to continue?







ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

No, I wish to help him overcome his sin, or "evil deed" as you put it. He's not asked for help in continuing in sin. He's made no indication that he wants to remain how he is. You seem to think that if he "comes out" that is somehow justifying the sin. I don't get why you would believe that. Scripture tells us to confess our sins one to another. Wouldn't that include homosexuality, or is that so grave a sin that it shouldn't be mentioned?

I'm not saying he should keep sinning. What I'm doing is trying to encourage discernment in who he comes out to that he might find someone who will help him overcome his sin instead of throwing a few scriptures at him and then moving on.

 

[wonderwaleye]

No, I wish to help him overcome his sin, or "evil deed" as you put it. He's not asked for help in continuing in sin. He's made no indication that he wants to remain how he is. You seem to think that if he "comes out" that is somehow justifying the sin. I don't get why you would believe that. Scripture tells us to confess our sins one to another. Wouldn't that include homosexuality, or is that so grave a sin that it shouldn't be mentioned?

I'm not saying he should keep sinning. What I'm doing is trying to encourage discernment in who he comes out to that he might find someone who will help him overcome his sin instead of throwing a few scriptures at him and then moving on.

Please read these WORDS slowly and digest their meaning:


" Romans
Chapter 1:







18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.

19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.

20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;
21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.

22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools

23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies.

25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.

29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips

30 and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.

31 They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

32 Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. "
I hope now you will understand why this homo needs no help, as he refuses to help himself. I sure hope he doesn't draw you into his snare, or has he already?





ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[Prizm]

Clearly this wasn't intended to be addressed to every single last human being on earth

You're right, I'm not saying that everyone must marry. The reason I brought up that scripture was that it explains the purpose of creating male and female is for them to be united as one. My point was that it rules out same-sex relationships being intended by God. Jesus said regarding eunuchs, "he who is able to accept it, let him accept it." He doesn't condemn celibacy, but neither does He promote it.

if it were proven somehow without a shadow of a doubt that homosexuals DONT chose their orientation, would it change the way you view being gay as a sin

You'd still have to explain away a batch of scriptures that condemn homosexuality (I'm sure you've read them all), and the intention of God for male to be with female. So no, it won't change my view on homosexuality being sin. I think you'd have to treat those desires as a straight man treats lust for a woman: don't indulge in it, and don't let it play out in your desires. To be tempted is not a sin. It becomes sin when we indulge in those thoughts, and eventually act them out.

Are you kidding me? I know countless STRAIGHT ppl who always fight, who always have different partners. ... Please dont try and justify the corruptiveness of homosexual relationships purely on the tensions and conflicts you see within them.

I'm saying the evidence is showing the ratio is a lot higher in homosexual relationships, according to secular studies, not even christian research. I provided you with one such link in my previous post. My point is overall it seems homosexuals are not being fulfilled in their relationships, which again is evidence that homosexuality is not God's intention.

Certainly, it might awaken in them desires they didn't know they had, but I can look at pornography that feautres naked WOMEN all day long, and it certainly wont send me straight!

I'm not saying it specifically applies to you, I'm saying for many it's a lust issue. Lust will never cause a person to become straight. This is why people indulging in pornography continually need harder and more perverse sexual images, to satisfy their lust. It might start off as looking at a man and woman having sex, but then they'll want more. Gradually moving into more and more perverse territory. They never thought they'd start looking at homosexual pornography and wondering what it would be like. And how they got there was not necessarily due to a dormant homosexual desire, it was produced by their own lusts, steadily eroding their boundaries away (the scripture in James 1:14 I mentioned).

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." Matt. 15:18-19.

Jesus is confirming here that "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he" (Prov. 23:7). If we give over to sinful thoughts and allow them to cultivate in our mind, they will eventually play out in our actions. As I said before, to be tempted by homosexual thoughts is not a sin. To entertain those thoughts is.

I noticed the pentecostal icon on your profile. Have you been baptised in the Holy Spirit?