Everything is about to unravel...(Moved from Christian Advice)

[jason202]

Question: If you don't intend to persue a gay relationshp. as you stated above, why do you need to 'come out'? If you plan to remain single and not have any relationships, is it actually anyone's business? It's not necessary for a heterosexual who decides to be single and not have relationships to declare their sexual orientation. Why would it be different for a homosexual? Unless you plan on persuing a relationship with another man, why does anything need to be said at all? I do understand the whole thing about wanting to be true to yourself and not hiding part of oneself and that this no doubt makes you want to 'come out'. Just be prepared that you might get a stronger reaction than you are expecting so weigh it up carefully as to whether you make it public or not.

I'm still deciding how best to 'come out'... by no means am i going to snap my fingers and parade through church / public with a banner declaring my orientation. its going to be a carefully calculated process where i reveal it to first a select close friends / family (very confidentially at that) and then i suppose, to other friends should they want to know, in time, when i feel comfortable. whilst its certainly not anyone's business, and i have every right to keep it private, to press on like this seems nearly impossible.

if you had any idea of the sheer pain and weight this SECRET is impressing upon me, perhaps you'd understand why i feel i have to do this. its not like im just withholding one piece of information from everyone, i feel like im wearing a giant mask over everything i am. i feel like a fake. i hate having to censor the pain of having to endure being gay whilst trying to pursue living a christian lifestyle. i hate having to sustain interests in "straight" things, avoid certain "girly" topics, and alter the way i carry myself, so as not to appear gay. i hate telling someone i don't want to reciprocate their romantic feelings with lies and excuses. i hate telling ppl i'm "great" when inside im about to explode. im sick of telling my parents that am interested in dating someone from church, when really its just to keep them happy. im sick of seeing everyone around me grow older, falling in love, and being loved whilst i remain alone. im sick of being in an environment that seems to harbour so much disgust and hate based on who someone is affectionate towards. more than anything, i'm weary and i'm tired of upholding this facade. that's why i need to do this.

 

[jason202]

Here's a video I found for you.

Thank you. Its so true. I love Graham Cooke's stuff.

 

[wonderwaleye]

I'm still deciding how best to 'come out'... by no means am i going to snap my fingers and parade through church / public with a banner declaring my orientation. its going to be a carefully calculated process where i reveal it to first a select close friends / family (very confidentially at that) and then i suppose, to other friends should they want to know, in time, when i feel comfortable. whilst its certainly not anyone's business, and i have every right to keep it private, to press on like this seems nearly impossible.

if you had any idea of the sheer pain and weight this SECRET is impressing upon me, perhaps you'd understand why i feel i have to do this. its not like im just withholding one piece of information from everyone, i feel like im wearing a giant mask over everything i am. i feel like a fake. i hate having to censor the pain of having to endure being gay whilst trying to pursue living a christian lifestyle. i hate having to sustain interests in "straight" things, avoid certain "girly" topics, and alter the way i carry myself, so as not to appear gay. i hate telling someone i don't want to reciprocate their romantic feelings with lies and excuses. i hate telling ppl i'm "great" when inside im about to explode. im sick of telling my parents that am interested in dating someone from church, when really its just to keep them happy. im sick of seeing everyone around me grow older, falling in love, and being loved whilst i remain alone. im sick of being in an environment that seems to harbour so much disgust and hate based on who someone is affectionate towards. more than anything, i'm weary and i'm tired of upholding this facade. that's why i need to do this.

GOD'S WORD does give you another option:



" Matthew
Chapter 18:




7 Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come!



8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire.



9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna "



Maybe even the thought of this will curtail your LUST. But if not there is no doubt it's time to see a doctor.





ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

GOD'S WORD does give you another option:



" Matthew
Chapter 18:




7 Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come!



8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire.



9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna "



Maybe even the thought of this will curtail your LUST. But if not there is no doubt it's time to see a doctor.

I don't see anywhere where the OP is talking about struggling with lust, he's just trying to decide whether he should tell people or not. Part of his reason, as the post he made right before yours says, part of his reason for telling people is so that they might know and be more sensititive about things. Right now, he's said that he isn't interested in pursuing a romantic relationship because he wants to focus his energies on loving God. That is a commendable act, and you need to understand.

To the OP:
I know where you're coming from. People ask questions all the time about me, trying to find out if I'm looking for a thing with someone or whatnot. All my life, I've known that there was something different about me. I wasn't attracted to anyone. All the boys and girls from school would want to be dating each other, and I just didn't have the desire to do so. Until last year, I didn't have a name for it, but now I do: Asexuality. Being content without sex or attraction, which is the basic definition.

my heart goes out to those struggling with homosexuality, but it is only because I have a separate view than the world does. I didn't choose to be asexual, I just was. There was not a time in which I decided, "well, I'll just be turned off by everyone" or whatnot. I've tried to force myself to date people,and they end up being just close friends rather than a romantic relationship. I did not choose asexuality. It's not celibacy in which you oppress your sexual preference for God, but asexuality is almost like natural celibacy in which to declare yourself celibate really doesn't change anything. Do I think heterosexuality is a choice? No. I think you're born with that desire to seek relationships in the opposite sex. Everyone I've talked to that are straight...they just were, it wasn't a choice. Do I think homosexuality is a choice? Since the other two aren't, I'm gonna have to go with this conclusion.

I understand the desire to "come out" and be honest with people about your sexuality so that they might not continue asking you over and over again about it. I wish that I had the courage to just tell everyone to quit talking about me finding someone to love...and just let it be. But I haven't told many people, except for my friends, which are completely wonderful with it! But I'm still in the closet, because I don't want to disappoint my parents.

Peace,
tbird

 

[Prizm]

You say not to believe that you're born gay - may I ask what you believe causes someone to become attracted to their same sex?

Hi Jason,

The reason that people are not born gay is because God does not tempt anyone, and because He made man and woman for the sole purpose of being with each other. I'll explain:

Jesus says, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." (Matthew 19:4-5)

The Bible states that for a man or woman to be sexually attracted to the same sex is unnatural:

Romans 1:27: "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful"

God would not cause us to have an unnatural longing for the same sex right from birth because God does not tempt anyone (James 1:13). We are all born in sin, but whether we sin is ultimately our choice. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God. They may have been tempted by Satan, but they were never compelled and had an aching to disobey right from the beginning.

Being born (ie created by God) and having an automatic compulsion and burning to do something that is not of God would be as though God is tempting us. As though God is pushing us towards something he condemns:

"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot by tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death." (James 1:13-15)

James is saying here that we become partial to sin when we entertain those thoughts in our head. Which then leads to sinful action. Which ultimately leads to eternal separation from God unless we repent.

This is why pornography is so dangerous. Sexual immorality is a huge spiritual issue. The problems it causes are immense.
The world wonders why sexual crime and abuse has been rapidly increasing. A lot of it is exactly what James is describing. People giving in to their lustful thoughts, fueled by pornography as they go deeper and deeper until they are acting out gross perversions and homosexuality. So many articles about sexual crimes mention that police also find stacks of pornography at the person's house. The Bible talks about times when God gives a person over to their lusts because they continually desire it and constantly reject His Word (Romans 1:24-26). It's as though God eventually lifts His gracious hand and allows their sinful desires to take over.

That's one issue. Another is many times sexual abuse and molestation seem to open a spiritual doorway, a curse somewhat. Time and time again, I hear that people who sexually abuse were molested themselves. Or those abused may not sexually abuse others, but they start to have an unnatural longing for sexual perversion, homosexuality included. The evidence seem to show a demonic doorway has been opened up, somewhat transferred at the hands of an abuser. Which causes the abused person to have an unnatural and distorted perspective of sex.

The other side of this I've noticed has nothing to do with sex initially. It's the lack of a father figure. I know you mentioned you have a good relationship with your parents, but I'll just discuss this briefly, perhaps for the sake of other readers. It does seem to be a common thread with many gay men - the lack of a supportive father figure in their lives when they were growing up. I notice this also with effeminate teenage boys (common in emo culture) who are not necessarily gay. The father was either physically absent, emotionally distant, or abusive.
The son then grows up subconsciously trying to fulfill a lacking of masculine love and attention, but sexualizes that desire instead and turns to homosexuality.

Hence for most gay men, their relationships never seem to last.
I know a couple gay guys that seem to have a different partner everytime I see them. Gay men also seem to fight and argue constantly (I've noticed this also with lesbians), and the homosexual community has very high rates of depression compared to heterosexuals. They simply aren't being fulfilled by their relationships:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...higher-for-gays/2006/03/30/1143441279515.html
(Just one of many articles, and also mentions high rates of verbal abuse between partners)

Phew. It's a long post, but it's a complicated subject and I certainly don't have all the answers. But when you're looking for answers, look to what the Bible and the character of God say. Worldly reasoning and advice on homosexuality will almost never match up with God's Word or will.

I did read this interview on a Christian who used to be gay and firmly believes that gays are not born that way. Thought you might find it helpful:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/953334/posts

 

[bsd13]

How might someone come out without continuing to commit the act? Where might I find in GOD'S WORD that the LORD would have him COME OUT? GOD handles it with hell, do you think that's gentle and delicate? Could you please tell me how you would handle your advice before the LORD with discernment?

Do you think threatening someone with what they already know is going to lead to a changing of the heart, repentance? It won't. That's a work of God, not of man.

The first step to recovery is to admit there's a problem; to God, to yourself, and to those that God has put in authority over your life. Hence coming out.

Tell me, do you think it's better to just sit on the sin and do nothing about it, seeking no counsel nor help in the interest of being a "good" acceptable Christian? You know, as opposed to coming out to the APPROPRIATE people who can show discernment, love, and guidance based on the Word of the Lord...

There's certainly a time and place to tell people about hell, but he already knows about hell. It's not a revelation to him. He's a Christian and knows enough that he has a problem. So why rake him back through the coals about it. Just help him get on to the solution which is seeking God's will for how to handle the situation.

 

[heron]

I don't want to debate within the thread, but we need to remember that the OP has already been brought up with all these teachings, and has heard all the rationales. The question was not whether he was sinning or not -- it was on how he should convey this to people around him.

i feel like a fake. i hate having to censor the pain of having to endure being gay whilst trying to pursue living a christian lifestyle. i hate having to sustain interests in "straight" things, avoid certain "girly" topics, and alter the way i carry myself, so as not to appear gay. i hate telling someone i don't want to reciprocate their romantic feelings with lies and excuses. i hate telling ppl i'm "great" when inside im about to explode. im sick of telling my parents that am interested in dating someone from church, when really its just to keep them happy. im sick of seeing everyone around me grow older, falling in love, and being loved whilst i remain alone. im sick of being in an environment that seems to harbour so much disgust and hate based on who someone is affectionate towards. more than anything, i'm weary and i'm tired of upholding this facade. that's why i need to do this.

Well, this is a good place to start. A straight person should not have to fake any of these things either.

The bit about the environment is worth reviewing. What we surround ourselves with will impact how we think. If you see injustices and oppression, then maybe it is a good time to visit other churches. Even though it's hard to break out of a church community, it's not a wrong thing to do.

This was a particularly vocal year over election issues, so topics came up more than usual.

About being honest, though -- that's an important thing to look at.

I had times where I didn't want to date anyone in school, and no one thought that was unusual. It was just a statement of my opinion. Sure, people tried to set me up and draw attention to people they thought were enticing, but that didn't change what I said.

I am a girl, and I often avoid girly conversations. I talk about what I want to talk about. If people don't like me talking about their topic of choice, too bad. I happen to like to hear about what people do at work, or the maintenance of the church building and grounds, but certain other women in church consider that man conversation. Too bad!

I know that it is harder for men to talk about topics tagged feminine than the opposite, so I have an unfair advantage. But it shouldn't be that way. There are men who make candles and women in motocross, and that's just an expression of who they are and what they like.

I just heard someone yesterday say that their male friend, who is obsessed with music and drama, barely has the right to call himself conservative. They were not being mean -- they just had categories set in their head about who fits into what box. We are not boxes.

 

[bsd13]

I don't want to debate within the thread, but we need to remember that the OP has already been brought up with all these teachings, and has heard all the rationales. The question was not whether he was sinning or not -- it was on how he should convey this to people around him.

Well, this is a good place to start. A straight person should not have to fake any of these things either.

The bit about the environment is worth reviewing. What we surround ourselves with will impact how we think. If you see injustices and oppression, then maybe it is a good time to visit other churches. Even though it's hard to break out of a church community, it's not a wrong thing to do.

This was a particularly vocal year over election issues, so topics came up more than usual.

About being honest, though -- that's an important thing to look at.

I had times where I didn't want to date anyone in school, and no one thought that was unusual. It was just a statement of my opinion. Sure, people tried to set me up and draw attention to people they thought were enticing, but that didn't change what I said.

I am a girl, and I often avoid girly conversations. I talk about what I want to talk about. If people don't like me talking about their topic of choice, too bad. I happen to like to hear about what people do at work, or the maintenance of the church building and grounds, but certain other women in church consider that man conversation. Too bad!

I know that it is harder for men to talk about topics tagged feminine than the opposite, so I have an unfair advantage. But it shouldn't be that way. There are men who make candles and women in motocross, and that's just an expression of who they are and what they like.

I just heard someone yesterday say that their male friend, who is obsessed with music and drama, barely has the right to call himself conservative. They were not being mean -- they just had categories set in their head about who fits into what box. We are not boxes.

Heron makes some good points.

 

[nhislove]

So.. here I am, contemplating my life and how its all about to dramatically unravel to its core...

I'm gay. To type it out, let alone say aloud, is something incredibly surreal. Something i'm still getting used to. i've known this fact subconsciously from a young age, and came to terms with it consciously when i was around 13. I'm now 21. I don't want to trivialize anyone's coming-out experience, but i can't help feel that I have it particularly hard.. being a christian and all, its not exactly the most honorable position to be in! my family, my parents, my friends, MY WHOLE WORLD is seemingly opposed to this way of life and i'm terrified to tell ppl. but to be true to myself, honest to myself and those i care about, i need to let it be known. i'm sick of the lies, the covers, the hurt and the disappointment.

I think i'm ready to come out... but so terrified. i've been through many dark days of depression, and I'm sick of pretending to be something i'm not. i'm scared of what ppl will think, but i have to learn not to. i realise there's a huge support network out there for G/L ppl, im not denying that. it just kinda feels like that the ppl in my CIRCLE, the ppl that comprise of my world won't understand, empathise, or truly relate. im scared their opinion of me will become undone and that i'll be treated like an outcast, or someone to be pitied. its going to be horrifying to see the "world" i live in completely change. i know a lot of them will love me either way, and wish the best for me.. but as i said, being a christian, this is potentially the biggest bombshell i could ever drop. it will be slightly epic...

I know everything will change dramatically.. and that terrifies me. A part of me is truly excited about it... for the first time in my life - the opportunity to be REAL.. the chance to drop the facade. butterflies in my stomach!

I love Jesus with all my heart, and want to please him and honour him completely with my life. I'm worried particularly because i hold a certain degree of influence / leadership at church, and fear this will come crashing down, and i'll dissapoint various ppl who look up to me. I hope that we're all over the "its a choice" routine - obviously its not.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or encouragement. This is a very hard time.

....People only hide things when they know they are doing wrong......You really need to pray for God's will to be done in this matter not yiours.

 

[wonderwaleye]

“If you want what you’ve never had, you must do what you’ve never done”​

Context Specific Therapy (CST) offers an approach to homosexual problems that differs in many ways from traditional psycho-dynamic therapy. CST is straight forward, understandable, and specific to the unique difficulties of those struggling with homosexual problems.
CST is Ground in Clinical Research.
CST is based on research which describes in detail the elements of change which have been effective in the lives of LDS men who have successfully overcome homosexuality. CST is guided by the successful experience of others rather than theory.
CST Focuses on the Present.
CST views the causes of homosexual problems as existing in a “here and now” context of thoughts, feelings and behaviors. Changing these patterns along with the social context in which they are grounded is the focus of CST. Therefore CST moves quickly from exploring and resolving past issues to making changes in the present

CST is Pragmatic and Solution Focused.
CST is aimed at helping individuals find what works and doing more of it, while identifying what doesn’t work and doing less of it. CST places greater responsibility on the individual to try new things outside of the therapy session. While this takes courage and motivation it provides opportunities to do more than “talk” about the problem.
CST Changes Clearly Perceived Patterns of Thought and Behavior.
CST focuses on personally observable ways of thinking and behaving which can be tracked and dealt with directly. This allows the individual to establish clear objectives and monitor progress. CST avoids describing homosexual problems in terms of unseen psychological causes which are frequently illusive and mysterious.
CST is Individualized.
CST recognizes that the specific nature of homosexual problems often varies dramatically between individuals. The same is true for the specific contexts (life patterns) which maintain these problems. CST seeks to help each individual alter their unique patterns rather than assuming a common cause and a common solution for all individuals. CST is not a “one size fits all” therapy.
CST Expands Personal Agency.
CST views individuals as agentative decision makers who choose responses based on their current level of understanding and values. CST operates on the premise that as individuals make enlightened decisions they will consistently expand and increase the positive alternatives available to them. This view contrasts with theories that generally question and/or minimize the importance of personal agency.

CST Increases Moral and Religious Congruence.
CST sees religious and moral values as essential to change. CST research and clinical experience clearly indicates that individuals who are successful at overcoming homosexual problems are motivated by strong religious values. Such individuals consistently describe religious and spiritual transformation as central and fundamental elements of change. In this aspect, CST contrasts significantly with many approaches which see change as an entirely psychological process in which moral and religious values have little relevance.

Contact Dr. Robinson​

http://www.theguardrail.com/whatis.htm



I really hope this will help.




ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[DreamsAreFree]

Hi Jason,

That's one issue. Another is many times sexual abuse and molestation seem to open a spiritual doorway, a curse somewhat. Time and time again, I hear that people who sexually abuse were molested themselves. Or those abused may not sexually abuse others, but they start to have an unnatural longing for sexual perversion, homosexuality included. The evidence seem to show a demonic doorway has been opened up, somewhat transferred at the hands of an abuser. Which causes the abused person to have an unnatural and distorted perspective of sex.

There are FAR more people who were abused who use that experience to help other people. No demonic doorways are necessarily opened, being abused does not mean that a person will have peverted ways. Often they are sexually very conservative.

Sure, some people who abuse were abused themselves - more of a reflection on their general background and the way they grew up than the abuse itself. That was just part of it.

I know a number of people who have been abused and none of them have gone on to abuse. Many now work in social services fields or ministry using their experience to reach out to others.

No wonder it is so hard for those who are abused to come forward if it results in such accusations.

The OP has already said he was not abused.

 

[BigNorsk]

So.. here I am, contemplating my life and how its all about to dramatically unravel to its core...

I'm gay. To type it out, let alone say aloud, is something incredibly surreal. Something i'm still getting used to. i've known this fact subconsciously from a young age, and came to terms with it consciously when i was around 13. I'm now 21. I don't want to trivialize anyone's coming-out experience, but i can't help feel that I have it particularly hard.. being a christian and all, its not exactly the most honorable position to be in! my family, my parents, my friends, MY WHOLE WORLD is seemingly opposed to this way of life and i'm terrified to tell ppl. but to be true to myself, honest to myself and those i care about, i need to let it be known. i'm sick of the lies, the covers, the hurt and the disappointment.

I think i'm ready to come out... but so terrified. i've been through many dark days of depression, and I'm sick of pretending to be something i'm not. i'm scared of what ppl will think, but i have to learn not to. i realise there's a huge support network out there for G/L ppl, im not denying that. it just kinda feels like that the ppl in my CIRCLE, the ppl that comprise of my world won't understand, empathise, or truly relate. im scared their opinion of me will become undone and that i'll be treated like an outcast, or someone to be pitied. its going to be horrifying to see the "world" i live in completely change. i know a lot of them will love me either way, and wish the best for me.. but as i said, being a christian, this is potentially the biggest bombshell i could ever drop. it will be slightly epic...

I know everything will change dramatically.. and that terrifies me. A part of me is truly excited about it... for the first time in my life - the opportunity to be REAL.. the chance to drop the facade. butterflies in my stomach!

I love Jesus with all my heart, and want to please him and honour him completely with my life. I'm worried particularly because i hold a certain degree of influence / leadership at church, and fear this will come crashing down, and i'll dissapoint various ppl who look up to me. I hope that we're all over the "its a choice" routine - obviously its not.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or encouragement. This is a very hard time.

I have to admit, I see no purpose to coming out. What for? Now I'm not saying live a lie, if you are lying, it would be good to stop. But I see no advantage to running around making a spectacle of yourself.

People, almost all people, have sexual desires. I don't need to come out with mine, and you really don't need to come out with yours. Live your life, follow your faith.

It's probably good to have someone to talk to, maybe even a professional. It appears that it's been quite a burden for you. But if your whole world is torn apart it would likely only be because you come out and get in people's faces about being homosexual.

You don't have to hide, but you don't have to make it the most important thing people know about you either.

As you go forward, there will be times when maybe it will come up. At those times, it's your choice, you could share or you could decide it's not their business. Most will pretty well know long before you tell them anything.

Marv

 

[jason202]

9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna "

Maybe even the thought of this will curtail your LUST. But if not there is no doubt it's time to see a doctor.

Right... and the doctor will tell me to stop being depressed and confused, that being gay is completely natural and fine and that I should go on my way and be happy. Being gay is NOT recognized within the medical community as a defect, problem, or illness. or were you insinuating I need an appointment for them to remove me eyeballs because suddenly out of thin air i have a problem with lust? Is this what you did when you were turned 12, realised you were a hetereosexual and starting being attracted to the opposite sex? i never said I'm trying to overcome lust, I'm recognizing an attraction I have to the same sex. Just because i identify as gay doesn't suddenly mean I'm a sexed up lust demon... surely someone can calmly and maturely identify "ok, this is what i'm attracted to" without being told they must pull their eyes from their heads because they suddenly have a massive lust problem?

 

[jason202]

I don't see anywhere where the OP is talking about struggling with lust, he's just trying to decide whether he should tell people or not. Part of his reason, as the post he made right before yours says, part of his reason for telling people is so that they might know and be more sensititive about things. Right now, he's said that he isn't interested in pursuing a romantic relationship because he wants to focus his energies on loving God. That is a commendable act, and you need to understand.

To the OP:
I know where you're coming from. People ask questions all the time about me, trying to find out if I'm looking for a thing with someone or whatnot. All my life, I've known that there was something different about me. I wasn't attracted to anyone. All the boys and girls from school would want to be dating each other, and I just didn't have the desire to do so. Until last year, I didn't have a name for it, but now I do: Asexuality. Being content without sex or attraction, which is the basic definition.

my heart goes out to those struggling with homosexuality, but it is only because I have a separate view than the world does. I didn't choose to be asexual, I just was. There was not a time in which I decided, "well, I'll just be turned off by everyone" or whatnot. I've tried to force myself to date people,and they end up being just close friends rather than a romantic relationship. I did not choose asexuality. It's not celibacy in which you oppress your sexual preference for God, but asexuality is almost like natural celibacy in which to declare yourself celibate really doesn't change anything. Do I think heterosexuality is a choice? No. I think you're born with that desire to seek relationships in the opposite sex. Everyone I've talked to that are straight...they just were, it wasn't a choice. Do I think homosexuality is a choice? Since the other two aren't, I'm gonna have to go with this conclusion.

I understand the desire to "come out" and be honest with people about your sexuality so that they might not continue asking you over and over again about it. I wish that I had the courage to just tell everyone to quit talking about me finding someone to love...and just let it be. But I haven't told many people, except for my friends, which are completely wonderful with it! But I'm still in the closet, because I don't want to disappoint my parents.

Peace,
tbird

Thank you for your honesty and maturity. It means a lot. Perhaps the admission of your asexuality will be just a little something to help those who still think that God wants every single last male and female on this earth to be on an altar marrying someone when clearly he didn't design it that way for everyone. All the best with everything!

 

[jason202]

Hi Jason,

The reason that people are not born gay is because God does not tempt anyone, and because He made man and woman for the sole purpose of being with each other. I'll explain:

Jesus says, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." (Matthew 19:4-5)

Clearly this wasn't intended to be addressed to every single last human being on earth... Even Jesus himself also said in Matthew 19:12, “For there are eunuchs who are born thus from their mothers womb, and there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who are eunuchs for the kingdom of heavens sake. Let those who can accept it, accept it.”
And what do we say a Eunuch is? Well, typically, the definition is a male who has had their testicles removed, making it biologically impossible for him to impregnate a female. But the verse says "born thus" - exclusively including the way in which God made them. From that we can quickly conclude that God designs / makes / delights in men who aren't necessarily attracted to or physically able to engage in sexual acts with women. Wasn't it Paul or someone else in the NT say that it is better not to marry? Isaiah 56 also speaks of those who remain single will be given name better than sons and daughters. I think you can draw from that alone that the idea of a man and woman coming together to marry is not necessarily the model of perfection Jesus calls every person on earth to pursue, right? If you do, then there are some serious contradictions here, no?

The Bible states that for a man or woman to be sexually attracted to the same sex is unnatural:

Romans 1:27: "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful"

God would not cause us to have an unnatural longing for the same sex right from birth because God does not tempt anyone (James 1:13).

I struggle with this, because being attracted to males is the only natural thing I've ever known.. there was never a "turning" or "abandoning" of heterosexual desires, because I've never experienced them. From the age of like 3, i was playing dress ups in makeup and dresses, preferred playing with dolls to trucks, liked going shopping instead of playing contact sports.. i remember first having crushes on guys when i was as young as 9.. before i even KNEW what gay / straight WAS! How can ppl continue to persist in declaring that gay ppl CHOSE who they're attraced to, when clearly its embedded into the very fabric of their being from a very very young age, if not birth. Because, i suppose, they cannot say that God tempts people. i have a question for you - if it were proven somehow without a shadow of a doubt that homosexuals DONT chose their orientation, would it change the way you view being gay as a sin (as God doesn't tempt people, right?)

We are all born in sin, but whether we sin is ultimately our choice.

.

Agree.

This is why pornography is so dangerous. Sexual immorality is a huge spiritual issue. The problems it causes are immense.
The world wonders why sexual crime and abuse has been rapidly increasing. A lot of it is exactly what James is describing. People giving in to their lustful thoughts, fueled by pornography as they go deeper and deeper until they are acting out gross perversions and homosexuality.

.
I agree with your position on pornography - I too believe it is destructive, not beneficial, and dangerous. However I don't like how you've linked one's interest and abuse of pornography as the catalyst that suddenly causes them to be homosexual. I don't see that logic. Certainly, it might awaken in them desires they didn't know they had, but I can look at pornography that feautres naked WOMEN all day long, and it certainly wont send me straight! i'm sorry, but this angle you've taken seems to hit a dead end and appears to be quite irrelevant.

That's one issue. Another is many times sexual abuse and molestation seem to open a spiritual doorway, a curse somewhat. Time and time again, I hear that people who sexually abuse were molested themselves. Or those abused may not sexually abuse others, but they start to have an unnatural longing for sexual perversion, homosexuality included.

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Yep, not denying being abused as a child, etc, may influence one's sexuality or perceived sexuality. However this is rendered irrelevant to me. I've had a great life void of any abuse.

The other side of this I've noticed has nothing to do with sex initially. It's the lack of a father figure. I know you mentioned you have a good relationship with your parents, but I'll just discuss this briefly, perhaps for the sake of other readers.

Yep, you said it yourself! I've had a great relationship with my dad.

Hence for most gay men, their relationships never seem to last.
I know a couple gay guys that seem to have a different partner everytime I see them. Gay men also seem to fight and argue constantly (I've noticed this also with lesbians)

Are you kidding me? I know countless STRAIGHT ppl who always fight, who always have different partners. Look at the divorce rate alone. Please dont try and justify the corruptiveness of homosexual relationships purely on the tensions and conflicts you see within them. if i do the same, then can we agree that hetereosexual relationships, too are not of God? Of course not!

and the homosexual community has very high rates of depression compared to heterosexuals.

This comes of no surprise to me either. Do you really think having a gay relationship in this world is all going to be smiles, acceptance, rainbows and lollipops? Of course the depression rate is going to be higher, if not in the very least for all the hate, rejection and hurt from their families and society itself. dont get me wrong, im not trying to justify homosexual relationships, i just want a level playing field here..

Phew. It's a long post, but it's a complicated subject and I certainly don't have all the answers. But when you're looking for answers, look to what the Bible and the character of God say. Worldly reasoning and advice on homosexuality will almost never match up with God's Word or will.

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Haha, yes a very long post indeed! Whilst it might seem like I'm attacking your arguments/points, I do appreciate them, and see that you're not being rude or trying to start fights. Thank you for sharing what you believe to be true. Like you, I am seeking truth too.

So... can we conclude..
Jason is a homosexual because, either:
1. He was sexually abused as a child.
2. He has had a distant and passive father.
3. He chose it! Who wouldn't want this life!?
4. He is possessed by demons who have taken his real sexuality hostage.
5. ....?

 

[jason202]

Do you think threatening someone with what they already know is going to lead to a changing of the heart, repentance? It won't. That's a work of God, not of man.

.

Thank you for that. I have definitely been informed of all "those" scriptures, believe me. I've been to church and read my bible every week for the past 10 years.

The first step to recovery is to admit there's a problem; to God, to yourself, and to those that God has put in authority over your life. Hence coming out. Tell me, do you think it's better to just sit on the sin and do nothing about it, seeking no counsel nor help in the interest of being a "good" acceptable Christian? You know, as opposed to coming out to the APPROPRIATE people who can show discernment, love, and guidance based on the Word of the Lord...

I have admitted this problem to God almost daily for the past decade and have found no release or freedom from it no matter how much prayer I've packed into it. I realise I need to bring it to someone of spiritual authority very soon. Its something that must be done sooner than later. Everything is just so overwhelming. I just wish there was CONSISTENCY with this issue. there are so many different opinions and no one christian seems to be able to agree upon why people are gay, and that really bothers me. I know i'm not the only when i say that i wish i could have a five minute sit down interview with God!

 

[wonderwaleye]

Clearly this wasn't intended to be addressed to every single last human being on earth... Even Jesus himself also said in Matthew 19:12, “For there are eunuchs who are born thus from their mothers womb, and there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who are eunuchs for the kingdom of heavens sake. Let those who can accept it, accept it.”
And what do we say a Eunuch is? Well, typically, the definition is a male who has had their testicles removed, making it biologically impossible for him to impregnate a female. But the verse says "born thus" - exclusively including the way in which God made them. From that we can quickly conclude that God designs / makes / delights in men who aren't necessarily attracted to or physically able to engage in sexual acts with women. Wasn't it Paul or someone else in the NT say that it is better not to marry? Isaiah 56 also speaks of those who remain single will be given name better than sons and daughters. I think you can draw from that alone that the idea of a man and woman coming together to marry is not necessarily the model of perfection Jesus calls every person on earth to pursue, right? If you do, then there are some serious contradictions here, no?



I struggle with this, because being attracted to males is the only natural thing I've ever known.. there was never a "turning" or "abandoning" of heterosexual desires, because I've never experienced them. From the age of like 3, i was playing dress ups in makeup and dresses, preferred playing with dolls to trucks, liked going shopping instead of playing contact sports.. i remember first having crushes on guys when i was as young as 9.. before i even KNEW what gay / straight WAS! How can ppl continue to persist in declaring that gay ppl CHOSE who they're attraced to, when clearly its embedded into the very fabric of their being from a very very young age, if not birth. Because, i suppose, they cannot say that God tempts people. i have a question for you - if it were proven somehow without a shadow of a doubt that homosexuals DONT chose their orientation, would it change the way you view being gay as a sin (as God doesn't tempt people, right?)

.

Agree.
.
I agree with your position on pornography - I too believe it is destructive, not beneficial, and dangerous. However I don't like how you've linked one's interest and abuse of pornography as the catalyst that suddenly causes them to be homosexual. I don't see that logic. Certainly, it might awaken in them desires they didn't know they had, but I can look at pornography that feautres naked WOMEN all day long, and it certainly wont send me straight! i'm sorry, but this angle you've taken seems to hit a dead end and appears to be quite irrelevant.

.
Yep, not denying being abused as a child, etc, may influence one's sexuality or perceived sexuality. However this is rendered irrelevant to me. I've had a great life void of any abuse.

Yep, you said it yourself! I've had a great relationship with my dad.


Are you kidding me? I know countless STRAIGHT ppl who always fight, who always have different partners. Look at the divorce rate alone. Please dont try and justify the corruptiveness of homosexual relationships purely on the tensions and conflicts you see within them. if i do the same, then can we agree that hetereosexual relationships, too are not of God? Of course not!

This comes of no surprise to me either. Do you really think having a gay relationship in this world is all going to be smiles, acceptance, rainbows and lollipops? Of course the depression rate is going to be higher, if not in the very least for all the hate, rejection and hurt from their families and society itself. dont get me wrong, im not trying to justify homosexual relationships, i just want a level playing field here..

.
Haha, yes a very long post indeed! Whilst it might seem like I'm attacking your arguments/points, I do appreciate them, and see that you're not being rude or trying to start fights. Thank you for sharing what you believe to be true. Like you, I am seeking truth too.

So... can we conclude..
Jason is a homosexual because, either:
1. He was sexually abused as a child.
2. He has had a distant and passive father.
3. He chose it! Who wouldn't want this life!?
4. He is possessed by demons who have taken his real sexuality hostage.
5. ....?

" dont get me wrong, im not trying to justify homosexual relationships, i just want a level playing field here.. "


Try a women and you will find you do have a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.






ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[Prizm]

The OP has already said he was not abused.

The OP asked me what I believe causes someone to become attracted to the same sex. I responded with what seem to be some of the main causes and characteristics I have personally seen in gay men over the years. There is no one answer, but I was trying to bring across a couple common threads.

Sexual sin and abuse has a lot more spiritual ramifications than many may realize.

 

[bsd13]

.

Thank you for that. I have definitely been informed of all "those" scriptures, believe me. I've been to church and read my bible every week for the past 10 years.



I have admitted this problem to God almost daily for the past decade and have found no release or freedom from it no matter how much prayer I've packed into it. I realise I need to bring it to someone of spiritual authority very soon. Its something that must be done sooner than later. Everything is just so overwhelming. I just wish there was CONSISTENCY with this issue. there are so many different opinions and no one christian seems to be able to agree upon why people are gay, and that really bothers me. I know i'm not the only when i say that i wish i could have a five minute sit down interview with God!

The question I have is do you want to change, or do you want to avoid angering God? No one wants to anger God. But that doesn't mean your heart is right and truly wants to change. I've been through the same thing, but regarding different sins. I wanted to change so as to not anger the Lord, but if given my own choice on the matter would have stayed as I was. Until your heart is in line with God's will (and not just your mind) there will may not be any release from it.

No one knows why someone is gay. Personally I think it's a product of environment and upbringing. Do I have scientific evidence? No, but God isn't going to make someone gay and then tell them they can't be. That would be like saying God makes some people into serial killers. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Bellicus]

Wasn't it Paul or someone else in the NT say that it is better not to marry? Isaiah 56 also speaks of those who remain single will be given name better than sons and daughters. I think you can draw from that alone that the idea of a man and woman coming together to marry is not necessarily the model of perfection Jesus calls every person on earth to pursue, right? If you do, then there are some serious contradictions here, no?

I was thinking about these verses yesterday, when I read your post:

Rev 14: 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

And you are right that it is better to be single then to be married, but when Paul speaks about this he mention that it is a gift from God to live in celibacy, and I find it unlikely that homosexuality can be considered a gift from God (I think it have to do with our fallen nature), and it don't seem like Paul was bitter about it either, like you seem to be. You have clearly expressed that you don't enjoy to be homosexual, and that you would prefer to be heterosexual if you had a choice.

I am not going to trivialize it and say it is about choice or suggest that it is demons inside of you that make you feel like that or anything like that. But remember that the bible says that nothing is impossible for God, so I don't think you should settle with the idea that it is the will of God that you feel like you do, since you seem to long for something better.

2 cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

And how you can see anything new if you think that there are limits in what God can do, and therefore hang on the old man?

If you agree that homosexual lusts are a sin, then you also know as a Christian that Jesus came to take our sins on Himself, so we could be free. So then you can let your chains go, you don't need to have them on you anymore.

So don't be bitter, and even if you seem to have made your mind up on this to tell the people close to you what you have been struggling with (I don't think that is a bad idea), then don't forget that there is always hope and I pray that you will find a future that you can feel content with and not a life where you feel that your destiny is a life of pain and sorrow.

God bless you.