Everyone should be watching developments in Israel

parousia70

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Please can you give us some evidence that American Evangelicals actually support the 'persecution of Israeli Christians' ? (As you stated).

According to this Research, "One-fourth (24%)[of American Evangelicals] support the existence, security and prosperity of Israel, no matter what Israel does.

If you personally do not support Israeli persecution of Christians (and I hope you don't), does that lack of support manifest itself in any tangible way with you?
Have you spoken out against it anywhere?
Have you taken any action to attempt to bring the issue to light in any of your faith group circles? Have you taken any action to try to stop it?

Or is it more of a shrugging your shoulders type of "oh well... its the price we Christians have to pay if we want to support Israel?"
 
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Nige55

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Yes, But they have done this over and over since Israel was named Israel.... They will always be His chosen and they will be the people from which the 144,000 come.

Absolutely. They repeatedly rejected him throughout Kings, and yet would also repeatedly return to him. Paul himself was a persecutor of early Disciples of Christ before his conversion.
I think people struggle to see beyond today, unable to image people, and nations being saved and having hearts changed and softened. I have the feeling with some however, that they simply don't actually want the Jews to become saved.
 
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parousia70

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Secondly, I did not say that you were antisemitic... my point was that there is so much hate for Israel that there is a name for it... antisemitism.


Ironically, the charge of antisemitism lies squarely at the feet of the Evangelical Christians who are "supporting" Israel because they adhere to and promote the notion that sometime in our NEAR future (its always near apparently), 2/3 of the Jewish Population MUST BE VIOLENTLY EXTERMINATED in the SOON coming (its always soon) Great Tribulation.

A call for 2/3 of Israeli Jews to be violently wiped off the face of the earth SOON, no matter how cloaked in "love for Israel" its packaged up as, is still ugly antisemitism, and should be vehemently opposed by all people of good will.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The world is in a state of corruption and greed. It is rampant and the now there is talk in some countries want to go borderless...
All the media is good to follow, if you can sort the lies from the truth.
However, the center stage of the end times.. is Israel.. More directly.. Jerusalem.... Our focus should be on this if we are to be aware and ready.
This is the nation that all nations seem to want to hate. Some want to push them into the sea..
Make no mistake.. they will be the center of the events that end this time period.
parousia70 said:
Are you just making stuff up?
Here's the fact:
Israel has friendly, diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.
You are on a Christian forum, state in your identification that you are catholic, a Christian religion... yet you don't know why we should keep our eyes on Israel in these end times.... nor do you recognize that Israel is Nation and people that others love to hate..There is even a name for it "antisemitism".
People are so quick to condemn this small country, as it searches to live peacefully and be left alone, that they won't even give them the right to protect themselves from obvious and random attacks on their innocent.
THESE end times?
Maybe you don't know much about Catholic Eschatology, but Catholics, by and large, aren't proponents of modern, speculative end time theories.
I never said I don't recognize some people hate Israel, I simply disproved your unfounded claim that "all nations want to hate it"
How is anything I have said antisemitic? That is a grievous charge, and you'd better have some proof to back it up... Calling me antisemitic simply because I have proven your claim that "all nations hate Israel" is untrue, doesn't cut it friend.

Who exactly isn't giving them the right to protect themselves from attacks on their innocent?
And how are they preventing them from exercising that right exactly?

I think you're making stuff up again....
Ironically, the charge of antisemitism lies squarely at the feet of the Evangelical Christians who are "supporting" Israel because they adhere to and promote the notion that sometime in our NEAR future (its always near apparently), 2/3 of the Jewish Population MUST BE VIOLENTLY EXTERMINATED in the SOON coming (its always soon) Great Tribulation.

A call for 2/3 of Israeli Jews to be violently wiped off the face of the earth SOON, no matter how cloaked in "love for Israel" its packaged up as, is still ugly antisemitism, and should be vehemently opposed by all people of good will.
Has anyone here noticed how much the "antisemitism" card is played in a lot of these threads concerning Israel and the Jews?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee

John 7:1 "And after these things Jesus was walking in Galilee; for He was unwilling to walk in Judea, because the Judeans were seeking to kill Him."

Here is some interesting info on the word "Jew":

The Word "Jew" and the Scriptures
Jew, Jews, Jewish (modern and erroneous usage of the word in many English Bibles)

Generally speaking, a Jew is a person named after his/her religion called Jew-ism or Jew-dah-ism, as a Christian is named after his/her religion called Christianity. The word Jew is not found in the Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek texts of the Sacred Scriptures, but in many English Bibles the word Jew has become associated with a rendering of the Latin word Judaeus, which was a translation of the Greek word Ioudaios, the Aramaic word Yahudain, and the Hebrew word Yahudah.

Although not found in either the Hebrew, Aramaic or the Greek Scriptures, the word Jew is an incorrect English rendering most often translated from the Latin word Judaeus, a Latin translation of the Hebrew word Yahudah. As translated, it is referring to one of the tribes of Israel (Yisrael) named after one of the 12 sons of Jacob. The word Jews, the plural of the word Jew, is incorrectly translated most often from the word Hebrew Yahudi, descendants of the tribe named after Yahudah. It must be noted, that the letter 'J' was not in general use until after the 16th century as is now used in many English Bibles to form the incorrect Biblical word 'Jew.'

In some English Bibles we have received from the translators, the word Juda. This is also an error in translation because the word derives from the Greek Iudaios, which in the English would be Judaios. Judaios was none other then a Greek pagan diety (see W.H. Roscher's lexicon of mythology).
Note: As examples, the following words have been "transliterated" from the Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, that is, the letters forming the original word have been place into English letters, so when pronounced in the English, the word will closely represent the sound of the original word as found in the language of the Sacred Scriptures.................

Jew
(a Definition from Jewish sources)
Jew - an individual who is a member of the Jewish People.

The Question of "Who is a Jew?" has arisen with particular urgency today, especially in the modern State of Israel. This is because of intense pressure from the Movements of Reform and Conservative Jewry, who feel that they have been excluded or, more precisely, that Conversions performed by their Rabbis have not been recognized by Israeli authorities. Another major factor is the immigration of hundreds of thousands of individuals from the former Soviet Union, many of whom claim that they are Jews and who were in fact persecuted in their homeland because of that identification, but who may not, according to the Halachic definition (a definition according to Jewish Law) given below, be Jewish.

According to strict Halachah, the answer to the question is clear. A Jew is someone who either … is a child of a Jewish mother or is a Convert to Judaism who, after a period of serious and verified study of the Principles of the Faith and the Laws of Judaism, has done the following:
Accepted upon Himself or Herself the "Yolk of the Kingdom of Heaven and the Yolk of G-d's Commandments" Immersed Him or Herself in a Ritual Pool of Water known as a "Mikveh," symbolizing Rebirth If a male, has undergone the Process of "Brit Milah," Circumcision.
=============
How many Jews in Israel, and elsewhere in the world, are actually "religious"?

Judaism - Wikipedia


Judaism (originally from Hebrew יהודה, Yehudah, "Judah";[1][2] via Latin and Greek) is the religion of the Jewish people. It is an ancient, monotheistic, Abrahamic religion with the Torah as its foundational text.[3] It encompasses the religion, philosophy, and culture of the Jewish people.[4]
Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Children of Israel.[5]

Judaism encompasses a wide body of texts, practices, theological positions, and forms of organization. The Torah is part of the larger text known as the Tanakh or the Hebrew Bible, and supplemental oral tradition represented by later texts such as the Midrash and the Talmud.
With between 14.5 and 17.4 million adherents worldwide,[6] Judaism is the tenth largest religion in the world.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Very interesting. That is something I never really looked at.

It's the only thing that makes sense when you look at all the evidence.

Census:
"Golgotha" which in Greek was "Calvary" meant "place of the skull" but more accurately "place of the counting heads". It comes from a Hebrew idiom that means to take a census by counting skulls (or we'd use the term "head count"). And the Romans took the census of everyone coming into Jerusalem every Passover from this location.

Now of course if you want to make the most impact of your authority in deterrence of criminal activity; you put your execution site right next to where everyone passes through to be counted.

Crucifixions:
Allegedly too, the "Secrets of Golgotha" book stated that the Romans had a custom of executing people in the location the crime was committed; (Jesus was arrested on the Mt of Olives) yet that assertion doesn't really make a whole lot of practical sense. Crucifixions would take place in designated spots because the vertical beam of the cross stayed permanently in the ground. The condemned man (usually) carried the horizontal beam (which was alleged to range between about 70 and 100 lbs). (The Romans did not crucify women.)

Now according to archeological studies done on bones found in Jewish tombs from the 1st century; the average Jewish male was between 4ft 11in and 5 3'. 110 to 130lbs. Average Roman soldier was 5 6' and 160lbs. (You had to be at least 5ft to join the army.)

So if Jesus fell within that statistical average, he would not have been very tall or very heavy. Also if we consider that on the beginning of having just been baptized, Jesus spent 40 days where He didn't eat anything. At the point that 40 days had expired, He was on the verge of starving to death; so thus would have had very little muscle mass. Obviously post wilderness, He began eating and would have gained back some weight. Yet from that point, He was traveling around by foot preaching, and was not likely to have done much manual labor; so thus would not have looked as He did when He came to be baptized (having come off a 20 or so year span of having done carpentry work). So come crucifixion time, we are not talking someone who would have had the physique of even an athlete.

Flogging?
I'd also found some research from people who do Roman army reenactments; and they said that usually if someone was condemned to death; they were either flogged with a flagellum (cat-o-nine tails with bone, glass, or other implements that would rip the skin) or crucified. It usually was not both, because either was a death sentence and if you were flogged with a flagellum, you would not have survived long enough (do to blood loss) to be crucified.

Now who would have been flogged with a flagellum as a death sentence? That was not stated in the research. I do know the Romans did not crucify soldiers; (nor do I believe they crucified gladiators for the same reason). That was considered too demeaning for someone who was in the army, because the army was considered a noble profession (and so was being a gladiator). I do know that soldiers who did something "militarily" worthy of execution (like running away in a battle) were more likely to be "honor killed" by the men in their own legion, and that was considered to be a more humane means of death than a public execution. So my assumption is that those sentenced to death by flagellum would have been soldiers (or gladiators) convicted of criminal acts.

Now I know that view flies contrary to what is usually said about how executions were performed. Yet if you look at the records of executions and that it was not uncommon for men to be alive for days on a cross, the "one or the other / not both" does hold historical weight.

Now the Romans did use other implements for flogging people; and which instrument used was dependent on what the punishment prescribed was. Now if one was only to be "chastised" that was not suppose to be fatal and if the person executing the punishment killed someone they weren't suppose to kill, than they forfeited their own life. Both Jewish and Roman tradition was "forty" stripes (minus one in case the flogger miscounted). And though Scripture doesn't state what the whip was to be made of; Jewish tradition stated calf leather. The Romans also used a flexible reed which would have been similar to what "caining" is in Malaysia.

So, what did they really do to Jesus?

Given Pilate's command was "chastisement"; they would not have hit Him with an execution flagellum. Pilate had stated that Jesus had done nothing worthy of death. (Claiming to be God was not a crime under Roman law. LOL. The Romans, like the Greeks tended to have a tolerant view of people they deemed to be insane because they viewed the mentally ill as having been "touched by the gods".) Pilate did not think Jesus was insane either though, or he would not have executed Him.

And here's where it gets interesting regarding Pilate, the soldiers and the divergence of how things were "normally done".

John 19:24
They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

Now look at this passage really carefully. In the Greek text there is no break between "....whose shall it be" and "that scripture might be fulfilled..." And note the beginning of the verse. These are the soldiers talking to each other. Now who among the soldiers is part of this conversation is not stated. The centurion, who would have been their commander may have been involved. Yet note; these Roman army men, apparently know about Jewish scripture! How is that so.

Well, there may be several answers to that.

One: There were Jewish "proselytes" in the Roman army. (I think the Jews termed them as "righteous men". That's a term still used today for gentiles they approve of.)

Two: This legion had been in the Antonia fortress for at least 10 years at this point. The army rotated legions, not individual soldiers and once you joined the army, you were in the same legion, serving with the same men your entire life. Antonia was originally built as sort of a "retirement post" for soldiers who'd been in the battle of Actium (which was in 31 BC - LOL - not likely too many of those guys were still around) or had participated in the putting down of the rebellions in Judea under Herod the Great. So a good number of the soldiers in this legion would have been familiar with Judaism. And considering Antonia was right next to the temple and soldiers would have had to walk through the court of the gentiles to get out of the city. It is also possible / probable that if they'd been on guard duty or "bored" one day; they would have been "hanging around" actually listening to Jesus preach. Either way, I don't think there were too many soldiers in Antonia who didn't know who Jesus was.

Three: Some authority in their chain of command told them these specific prophecies. We know this was at least partially true with Pilate. For obvious "political reasons" he was aware of some of their customs. There's a somewhat comical (yet even ominous) exchange between Jesus and Pilate; where Pilate says to Him: "Are you the King (supreme ruler - sometimes translated emperor) of the Jews?" Jesus responds: "Do you say this of yourself or did someone tell you this?" And Pilate basically says: "Do I look like a Jew?" The interesting thing about the language Pilate uses though, is that he's playing off the Sanhedrin's jealousy. He was aware that "Messiah" did not mean just "run of the mill political leader". The Romans considered the emperor to be a god and so this is why Pilate uses that specific term "King". He does this in several places to provoke them. "What should I do with whom you call King of the Jews?" "You want me to crucify your King?". "Behold the King of the Jews." And even the charges on the cross. Jesus was not charged with "treason", "sedition" or any such attempt at political usurpation of power. He was charged as "KING of the Jews" and according to the Greek text; that is exactly how Pilate wrote it.

So it seems to me that the Romans knew more than people today often assume they did.

So when it came to the flogging. I believe Pilate had Jesus flogged specifically "according to Jewish custom". And he did that as a way to mock the leaders also. If they used a 3 stranded implement made of calf's leather; "39 lashes" would have been 13 strikes. Or if they were to go strictly by custom of 39 individual minus one, that would have required a single strand whip.

Also, if you look closely at the language used when the text talks about the soldiers "mocking" Jesus. The term "mock" there means "to play with as one would tease a child". I don't see in the text that the Romans did anything particularly sadistic to Jesus. If you look at the context of what they are mocking Him for; that too had to do with the nations' concept of kingship. It was not anything specifically personal towards Jesus Himself. When they hit Him, the language depicts an open handed slap. They are not punching Him. Spitting probably had something to do with dishonored kings, captured in battle. Note they don't do things like cut off fingers, toes, ears etc. and they don't sexually assault Him. Sodomy was very common in the ancient world; so the fact that nothing like that happened to Jesus, should tell you something was very unique about how the Romans conducted themselves in this particular case.

Now the sadistic ones were the leaders of His own country. The Sanhedrin and Herod's guard were the ones who beat Jesus.

"And he carried his cross."

Here's another interesting one. Who's really the "he" in this passage? If we compare gospels. John is the only gospel that makes this statement. All the other gospels say Simon of Cyrene carried Jesus's cross. And many assume - well Jesus fell down, so they grabbed Simon because Jesus fell down.

Yet if we look at how the cross been was usually tied to the person who was carrying it; that doesn't quite fit either. If Jesus "fell down" with a beam tied to His arms. First off, He wouldn't have been able to get up, and they would have had to cut him free. It would not have been an "oops, I dropped my cross." moment. If He's (statically) between 110 and 130 lbs and falls face down with a 70 to 100 lb beam tied to His back - so much for the prophecy of "no broken bones". It doesn't fit.

So taking all this into consideration. Here they have a guy who does't really deserve to die. He's most likely bleeding from being flogged. He's probably not very big and not in particularly good shape after having been beaten. And they have to go from the Praetorium, which is in the middle of the Antonia fortress, across the walk way, through the court of the gentiles, passed the front of the temple, down the walkway / stairs, through the triple gate, across the red heifer bridge to the crucifixion site. The gospels do tell us that Jesus speaks to people on this path.

We get to the crucifixion. Both the thieves and Jesus are talking to people. These are fairly complex interactions obviously requiring some intellectual capacity. So I think it's safe to come to the conclusion that none of these men had arrived at the crucifixion site having been beaten within an inch of their lives.

So after 6 hours on a cross; Jesus dies at about 3 PM. and the text says that Pilate is surprised that He died so quickly. Again, indication that they weren't beaten within an inch of their lives before being crucified.

So there's the information I've garnished upon research on that.

Cemeteries:

Also, what was on the Mt. of Olives in the vicinity at that time was a cemetery. The Scripture says the ground shook and the graves split open at the point Jesus died.

Archeologically speaking the evidence of this is actually in existence today. It's hard to find today because housing has since been built in the valley over part of this ancient cemetery, but if you could walk through these peoples' back yards, you could see this. Researchers in connection to this actually took some photos of the area and prior to 1950 before all these settlements were there, it was far clearer to see.

Temple Mount:

Now the location that everyone thinks is the temple mount, where the Dome of the Rock mosque is; was not the temple mount. The temple was south of that in side the city of David. Where the Dome of the Rock is, is what's left of the Antonia fortress.

Here's an "approximation"; albeit probably not 100% "spot on" because it's "composited" by the current lay out of the land and taking into consideration that the siege changed a lot of that, my rendering of building orientation may be off. Now Antonia is accurate, that is its outline; yet I don't know if Antonia faces "dead east" or not? So my temple direction is not perpendicular (which the original may have been)?

I also believe I have the "court of the Sanhedrin" in the wrong place. It would have been same approximate location "flip" other side of temple; so the back of that structure would have been facing Antonia.

The court of the Sanhedrin had two entrances, one from the temple and the other from outside in the "court of the gentiles" which would have been the "blue" throughway to the north of the temple.

I found this out archeologically, which is interesting! There was an earthquake in 30 AD that was actually centered in Turkey which affected Jerusalem, but didn't do a whole lot of damage. One place it did damage though was the court of the Sanhedrin. That portion of the outer wall of the complex had cracked and the money changers were moved into the court of the gentiles on the other side of that wall.

Now Scripture records that the "tower of Shilom" had fallen at some point between 30 and 33 AD. A walk way had collapsed with it, which was probably part of the wall this court of the Sanhedrin was also attached to. There weren't as many people killed as could have been because the money changers had already been moved by the time this event occurred.

antoniatemplemap.png


Now looking at your Jpeg image of the temple (which looks quite accurate to me). The court of the Sanhedrin would have been on the side your looking at, possibly even the gold dome structure, because it was also called "the hall of hewed stone".

The other structure this earthquake affected was the doors on the sanctuary. They pivoted on pins that held them in place at both the top and bottom of their hinge settings in the building's stone work. They opened in the middle of the night and according to Josephus, behind these doors was the veil curtain. They were massive bronze doors and after this happened; allegedly, they could not get them closed all the way. So anyone who was looking into the sanctuary would have been able to see the veil.

Now also, according to Josephus; the veil was 3 layers and was said to be as thick as the length of a man's hand. It was adorned with cherubim which would have looked similar to this:

babylonian cherabim.jpg


Now Herod's temple was built with the same "foot print" as Solomon's, but the building was twice as tall and complex contained many more surrounding "out buildings". Also, it's said that Herod made the platform larger to accommodate more people.

Yet, I will end here right now because I've written a lot and I'm not even sure all this will fit in one post?
 
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bèlla

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Not a post to counter yours, but just on the same topic. The non messianic Jews are to be blessed... These are the ones out of which the 144,000 will come.

I am a Jew. I came to faith in a Jewish synagogue. I have no fear for my people. They will always have my love and support. Some feel differently and they’re entitled to their opinions and beliefs. :)
 
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JacksBratt

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Absolutely. They repeatedly rejected him throughout Kings, and yet would also repeatedly return to him. Paul himself was a persecutor of early Disciples of Christ before his conversion.
I think people struggle to see beyond today, unable to image people, and nations being saved and having hearts changed and softened. I have the feeling with some however, that they simply don't actually want the Jews to become saved.
This could be.. Also, our culture today seems to totally write someone off.. the person never gets a second chance. It's you're done...=.... you're done.

That is not God's way. Not with us. Not with anyone.

At least 144,000 non messianic Jews will flip and accept Christ. They will populate the earth during Christ's millennial reign.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Ironically, the charge of antisemitism lies squarely at the feet of the Evangelical Christians who are "supporting" Israel because they adhere to and promote the notion that sometime in our NEAR future (its always near apparently), 2/3 of the Jewish Population MUST BE VIOLENTLY EXTERMINATED in the SOON coming (its always soon) Great Tribulation.
A call for 2/3 of Israeli Jews to be violently wiped off the face of the earth SOON, no matter how cloaked in "love for Israel" its packaged up as, is still ugly antisemitism, and should be vehemently opposed by all people of good will.
I wonder what the overall percentage of Jews that were killed, not only in Jerusalem/Judea, but in all of Israel, during the Roman invasion of Israel [know as the "Jewish wars"] between 66 and 73ad [which would include Masada, the last Jewish stronghold in 73ad]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:6 Wars rumors of Wars


Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derive...........

Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance............

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West,"..........................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND
, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.

Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.
============================
Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.

If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints

 
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JacksBratt

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Ironically, the charge of antisemitism lies squarely at the feet of the Evangelical Christians who are "supporting" Israel because they adhere to and promote the notion that sometime in our NEAR future (its always near apparently), 2/3 of the Jewish Population MUST BE VIOLENTLY EXTERMINATED in the SOON coming (its always soon) Great Tribulation.

A call for 2/3 of Israeli Jews to be violently wiped off the face of the earth SOON, no matter how cloaked in "love for Israel" its packaged up as, is still ugly antisemitism, and should be vehemently opposed by all people of good will.
I consider myself an evangelical. I send blessings to the Jews and all the civilians of Israel. I bless the Jews. They are God's chosen..

It will not just be 2/3 of the Jews violently exterminated off the face of the earth.... It will be 2/3 or all life on earth.. The tribulation will be so grave that Christ will end it "Before all flesh perishes".

I support Israel due to the fact that it is prophesy that they exist. Israel exists and will exist from no on. No army will prevail.. They have the fire power of earthly war and they have the hand of God protecting them.

God's word will come true. Israel will be attacked and those who attack will quickly regret it.
 
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JacksBratt

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Has anyone here noticed how much the "antisemitism" card is played in a lot of these threads concerning Israel and the Jews?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee

John 7:1 "And after these things Jesus was walking in Galilee; for He was unwilling to walk in Judea, because the Judeans were seeking to kill Him."

Here is some interesting info on the word "Jew":

The Word "Jew" and the Scriptures
Jew, Jews, Jewish (modern and erroneous usage of the word in many English Bibles)


=============
How many Jews in Israel, and elsewhere in the world, are actually "religious"?

Judaism - Wikipedia


Judaism (originally from Hebrew יהודה, Yehudah, "Judah";[1][2] via Latin and Greek) is the religion of the Jewish people. It is an ancient, monotheistic, Abrahamic religion with the Torah as its foundational text.[3] It encompasses the religion, philosophy, and culture of the Jewish people.[4]
Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Children of Israel.[5]

Judaism encompasses a wide body of texts, practices, theological positions, and forms of organization. The Torah is part of the larger text known as the Tanakh or the Hebrew Bible, and supplemental oral tradition represented by later texts such as the Midrash and the Talmud.
With between 14.5 and 17.4 million adherents worldwide,[6] Judaism is the tenth largest religion in the world.
The term "Jew" is generally used in addressing the people of Israel and of the lineage of Israel's 12 tribes.. or those that practice or follow messianic or non messianic Jewish religion.
 
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Has anyone here noticed how much the "antisemitism" card is played in a lot of these threads concerning Israel and the Jews?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee

John 7:1 "And after these things Jesus was walking in Galilee; for He was unwilling to walk in Judea, because the Judeans were seeking to kill Him."

Here is some interesting info on the word "Jew":

The Word "Jew" and the Scriptures
Jew, Jews, Jewish (modern and erroneous usage of the word in many English Bibles)


=============
How many Jews in Israel, and elsewhere in the world, are actually "religious"?

Judaism - Wikipedia


Judaism (originally from Hebrew יהודה, Yehudah, "Judah";[1][2] via Latin and Greek) is the religion of the Jewish people. It is an ancient, monotheistic, Abrahamic religion with the Torah as its foundational text.[3] It encompasses the religion, philosophy, and culture of the Jewish people.[4]
Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Children of Israel.[5]

Judaism encompasses a wide body of texts, practices, theological positions, and forms of organization. The Torah is part of the larger text known as the Tanakh or the Hebrew Bible, and supplemental oral tradition represented by later texts such as the Midrash and the Talmud.
With between 14.5 and 17.4 million adherents worldwide,[6] Judaism is the tenth largest religion in the world.

"Jew" in the New Testament; had been a designation of someone who was of the tribe of Judah. Judah and Benjamin were the only tribes who'd gone into captivity in Babylon. The rest of the ten tribes are assumed to have been either destroyed (or assimilated) by the Assyrians.

The "Benjamites" had the most people who could still trace their lineage via families. Judah was more fragmented.

As far as other tribes (like Levi) there were obviously some Levites still around. John the Baptist's father was a Levite.

Yet what was left of the nation by the first century was quite minimal and rather mixed. The people who'd moved into the area after Judah and Benjamin were taken by the Babylonians were Edomites (descendent of Esau). So by the time we get to the days of Jesus, most Jews were likely mixed, Judah / Benjamin, Greek and Edomite lineage.

By the time we get to 130 AD. one of two things have happened to "the Jews". They either convert to Christianity and leave the area; thus being assimilated into those communities; or they are destroyed by the Roman army.

About 85% of adherents to Rabbinic Judaism today are not Semitic at all. They are indo-European genetically speaking. Of the other 15%; about 10 to 12% of them are mixed, mostly African, some European genetic make up. The last 5 to 7% are basically the Semitic people who never left the middle east. They may be "left overs" who never returned from Babylon? And or their Semitic DNA is likely Edomite or Arab.

We know they aren't Samaritans because the Samaritans were annihilated by the Byzantine empire in 500 AD

"Jews" who immigrate to Israel under "right of return" which now requires some sort of "DNA proof"; are suppose to have certain genetic markers "indigenous" to that area. The difficult with this is though that most of the people in the middle east have those same markers, as do many Europeans.

Matter of fact "Ashkenazi DNA" is quite common. Most eastern European people have some. My husband's side of the family is Ukrainian / Polish and my son is technically "genetically Jewish" LOL.
 
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parousia70

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I support Israel due to the fact that it is prophesy that they exist. Israel exists and will exist from no on. No army will prevail.. They have the fire power of earthly war and they have the hand of God protecting them.

God's word will come true. Israel will be attacked and those who attack will quickly regret it.

Ahhh but It is quite evident that God is NOT protecting them!
On 3-27-02, a suicide bomber blew himself, and at least 19 Israelis into eternity. What many may be missing--in fact, some will not want to hear--is that the attack, taking place on Passover, has tremendous theological implications.

In 1967 the Arab league, led by Egypt, attacked Israel on Yom Kippur, the
Day of Atonement. This is one of Israel's most holy days of the year
. It seemed, in the first day or two, that Israel was doomed. However, that war lasted, due to Israel's amazing military prowess, only 6 Days. Millennialists hailed Israel's victory as a positive sign that Jehovah was protecting her, and that, of course, we must be living in the last days! Let's take a closer look.

Instead of being a proof that Modern Israel are God's chosen people, the Yom Kippur attack in 1967, and the attack on Passover on 3/27/02 prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Modern Israel is not in covenant relationship with Jehovah. We know this from scripture.

Read Exodus 34:23: "Three times in the year all your men shall appear before
the Lord, the Lord God of Israel [passover, pentecost, tabernacles]. For I will cast out the nations before you and enlarge your borders; neither will any man covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year." The promise here is simple and profound. As long as Israel was in covenant relationship with Jehovah, their enemies would not attack them during their holy feast days!

For 1500 years there were no attacks against Israel during her feast days [During the Mosaic Age]. However, the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 took place, the city fell, during Pentecost. What are the implications of that attack in light of Exodus 34? The Seven Day War of 1967 took place on Yom Kippur, Israel's most Holy Day. What are the implications in light of Exodus 34? And the attack on Passover on 3-27-02. What are the ramifications of this attack, on Israel's Holy Day?

If Israel is still God's chosen people, that Palestinian bomber should never have been allowed by Jehovah to attack during the Passover. If Israel is still God's chosen people the attack of 1967 should never have happened. Instead of Israel's victory at that time being a sign of her elect status, it was, and is, a sign of the direct opposite. It proved, and proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Covenantal promise of Exodus 34 is no longer applicable! But if the Covenantal promise of Exodus 34 is no longer applicable, then the other promises of that Covenant, i.e., the promises of national restoration (e.g. Deuteronomy 30), are also now invalid, abrogated by Jehovah Himself.

Further, the attacks on Yom Kippur, and now Passover, also prove something else, a direct corollary to everything else. Either the Covenant promise of Exodus 34 is no longer valid, or, the people claiming to be Israel today are not the people of the Covenant of Exodus 34. If the Covenant of Exodus is still valid, but the people in Israel today were attacked in violation of Exodus 34, then what does it say about the identity of the people in Israel today? It says that they cannot be the people of the Covenant of Exodus 34!

Every time, and any time, that ANYONE attacks Israel during any of
her three feast days, Bible students everywhere should be trumpeting the
Biblical fact, that this proves, emphatically, and unequivocally, that Modern Geopolitical Israel is not the chosen people of God.
 
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parousia70

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I bless the Jews. They are God's chosen..

Even the Coverts like Rosanne Barr & Dr Laura Schelssenger?
Gentiles who willfully reject Jesus Christ in favor of converting to the religion of Talmudic Judaism suddenly become "God's Chosen"?

Really?
 
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The Righterzpen

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That is puzzling since they are such a prosperous country.

Yes that is "puzzling" isn't it? LOL - Why do you think they are so "prosperous"? If you go back and start digging through the military history of the region; you'll quickly realize that Israel would not even exist if it wasn't for the US.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Has anyone here noticed how much the "antisemitism" card is played in a lot of these threads concerning Israel and the Jews?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee

John 7:1 "And after these things Jesus was walking in Galilee; for He was unwilling to walk in Judea, because the Judeans were seeking to kill Him."

Here is some interesting info on the word "Jew":

The Word "Jew" and the Scriptures
Jew, Jews, Jewish (modern and erroneous usage of the word in many English Bibles)


=============
How many Jews in Israel, and elsewhere in the world, are actually "religious"?

Judaism - Wikipedia


Judaism (originally from Hebrew יהודה, Yehudah, "Judah";[1][2] via Latin and Greek) is the religion of the Jewish people. It is an ancient, monotheistic, Abrahamic religion with the Torah as its foundational text.[3] It encompasses the religion, philosophy, and culture of the Jewish people.[4]
Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Children of Israel.[5]

Judaism encompasses a wide body of texts, practices, theological positions, and forms of organization. The Torah is part of the larger text known as the Tanakh or the Hebrew Bible, and supplemental oral tradition represented by later texts such as the Midrash and the Talmud.
With between 14.5 and 17.4 million adherents worldwide,[6] Judaism is the tenth largest religion in the world.

The term "Jew" is generally used in addressing the people of Israel and of the lineage of Israel's 12 tribes.. or those that practice or follow messianic or non messianic Jewish religion.
One does not have to be a Jew to gain citizenship in Israel and become an "Israelite" anymore than one has to be a Catholic to live in Rome [tho being a Jew makes it easier to become a citizen of Israel]

If a Jewish convert to Christianity [or vice versa] wants to continue under the OC Mosaic Law aka Judaism, I don't have a problem with that.
But that can be a topic for another thread............

How to Become an Israeli Citizen

As the only Jewish-majority state in the world, Israel is naturally a place where many Jews wish to immigrate and become citizens.............

Be born in Israel to an Israeli parent. One of the easiest ways to gain Israeli citizenship is by being born in Israel. If one or both of your parents is an Israeli citizen at the time of your birth, you are automatically granted citizenship.
Have Israeli citizens as parents. Even if you were not born in Israel, it is possible to become an Israeli citizen by birth if one or both of your parents is also an Israeli citizen.[1]
Be born in Israel with no other nationality. If you were born in Israel and have never been granted any other official nationality, you can acquire Israeli citizenship. To do so, you must apply for it between your 18th and 25th birthdays.[2]
Understand the Law of Return. The Law of Return is a rule enacted by the Israeli government in 1950 that allows all Jews, both ethnic and religious, to return to Israel as their homeland and gain citizenship.[3]

Rely on your Jewish heritage.
If you're Jewish, which is defined as being born to a mother who is Jewish or having converted to Judaism, then there is not much that you need to do. Israel will welcome you with open arms. All you have to do is go there and formally request citizenship. [4]
 
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Even the Coverts like Rosanne Barr & Dr Laura Schelssenger?
Gentiles who willfully reject Jesus Christ in favor of converting to the religion of Talmudic Judaism suddenly become "God's Chosen"?

Really?

:scratch::scratch::scratch: - Yeah, isn't that fascinating!

God is not a respecter of persons. He does not see a Jew any more favorably because of "being Jewish" than He sees a Russian, Chinese, Indian, American, African or even extraterrestrials (if they exist); just because they are Russian, Chinese, Indian, American, African or extraterrestrial. And in case anyone missed this - let me say it again - Jewish.

As per the 144,000. Let's take a look at that:

Revelation 7:
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

First they are "sealed" and now we know who they are. They are "of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues".

Now if anyone wishes to quibble over the meaning of "Jew" or "not Jew" Revelation 14 answers that question:

Revelation 14:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
 
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Nige55

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According to this Research, "One-fourth (24%)[of American Evangelicals] support the existence, security and prosperity of Israel, no matter what Israel does.

If you personally do not support Israeli persecution of Christians (and I hope you don't), does that lack of support manifest itself in any tangible way with you?
Have you spoken out against it anywhere?
Have you taken any action to attempt to bring the issue to light in any of your faith group circles? Have you taken any action to try to stop it?

Or is it more of a shrugging your shoulders type of "oh well... its the price we Christians have to pay if we want to support Israel?"

You know, 'whatever Israel does' is a very subjective, and quite frankly useless premise.
It's the least specific, most useless question I've ever heard used in a survey. It assumes that people asked have a full understanding of truthfully, what happens there, which is impossible to ascertain solely from western news sources.
Perhaps they don't actually believe a lot of the accusations thrown at Israel. I for one don't believe a lot of them as I have seen first hand outright misinformation and deception.
 
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parousia70

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You know, 'whatever Israel does' is a very subjective, and quite frankly useless premise.
It's the least specific, most useless question I've ever heard used in a survey. It assumes that people asked have a full understanding of truthfully, what happens there, which is impossible to ascertain solely from western news sources.
Perhaps they don't actually believe a lot of the accusations thrown at Israel. I for one don't believe a lot of them as I have seen first hand outright misinformation and deception.

I'm sorry I must have missed where you answered my question.
 
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BABerean2

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Yes, But they have done this over and over since Israel was named Israel.... They will always be His chosen and they will be the people from which the 144,000 come.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.

.
 
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BABerean2

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This is great information.. However, the bible is clear that 12,000 will come from each tribe.

Have you missed the fact that the Book of Revelation is a book of symbols?

No modern DNA analysis has found the 12 tribes as the pure bloodlines that once existed.

The Northern tribes were taken into captivity hundreds of years before the time of Christ.
Their bloodlines have been intermixed with others all over the world.
Do you deny this fact?

Claiming that the 12 tribes still exist as pure bloodlines, would be like claiming the Woolly Mammoth still roams the United States.


.
 
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