Everyone should be watching developments in Israel

[keras]

Why American evangelical Christians blindly support and defend the Israeli persecution of Israeli Christians is a mystery to me.

Because they are hopelessly confused and deceived.
This is quite apparent by the way they fail to have any kind of consensus about God's plans for the end times.
But that is the way God wants it. People will be shocked and taken unawares when the Lord strikes the earth with His fiery wrath; it will be our test of faith. 1 Peter 4:12

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Gracia Singh said: ↑
So, I would say, focus on Israeli persecution of Gentile Christians, and Jewish converts to Christ, as an indicator of where the soul of the land and the people seem to be turning.
The Jews do have a right to live peacefully and happily in their ancestral home land. But the do not have a God-given right to harass or persecute Christians, and / or non-Jews

parousia70 said: ↑
Why American evangelical Christians blindly support and defend the Israeli persecution of Israeli Christians is a mystery to me.

Because they are hopelessly confused and deceived.
This is quite apparent by the way they fail to have any kind of consensus about God's plans for the end times.
But that is the way God wants it. People will be shocked and taken unawares when the Lord strikes the earth with His fiery wrath; it will be our test of faith. 1 Peter 4:12

I would love to get the Jews' view of Revelation...........

Luke 2:32
A Light to the uncovering<602> of nations, and the glory of Thy people Israel.'

Revelation Chapter 1 Verses

Revelation 1:1
An unveiling/revealing <602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to the bond-servants of Him which-things is binding to be becoming in swiftness.
And He signifies-it, commissioning thru the messenger of Him, to the bond-servant of Him, John.

602. apokalupsis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.
575. apo apo' a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near),
2572. kalupto kal-oop'-to akin to 2813 and 2928; to cover up (literally or figuratively):--cover, hide.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Moses and Abraham

2 Corinthians 3:12
Having, then, such hope, we use much freedom of speech, 13 and [are] not as Moses, who was putting a veil<2571> upon his own face, for the sons of Israel not stedfastly to look to the end of that which is being made useless,
14 but their minds were hardened. For unto this day the same veil<2571> at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn — which in Christ is being made useless — 15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a veil<2571> upon their heart doth lie,
16and whenever they may turn unto the Lord, the veil<2571> is taken away.

2571. kaluma kal'-oo-mah from 2572; a cover, i.e. veil:--vail.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Is it your expectation that Jews who believe in Christ should forsake their people on your behalf? Not you personally of course.

They are still Jews, still Jewish. And clearly there are many Messianic Jews in Israel who love their country, and their people, and support Zionism politically.

But the State of Israel has been turning against them as Orthodox Jews become more and more politically influential and push, either through legal routes or vandalism, to silence, intimidate, and harass Messianic Jews. As they do with Gentile Christians, vandalizing churches and monasteries, and seeking to redefine Israel as a "Jews Only" space. And by "Jew", they mean observant Talmudic Jews who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. Not Messianic Jews.

Our support should be with our brothers and sisters in Christ *first*. That is my thought. How are they fairing, how is Israel treating them, how are the Palestinian authorities treating them, what could be better, and how do fellow believers in the Holy Land view the situation? That, really, should be our first thought as we look at Israel as a State, whether we are Jewish, or not.

 

[bèlla]

But the State of Israel has been turning against them as Orthodox Jews become more and more politically influential and push, either through legal routes or vandalism, to silence, intimidate, and harass Messianic Jews.

They have a lot of power and want to define Judaism for everyone. Rabbis have run afoul of them in America and other places. But all Jews know this. It isn’t a secret.

And by "Jew", they mean observant Talmudic Jews. Not Messianic Jews.

Jewish believers who accept Christ would have challenges in that atmosphere. To live there you can’t escape the Rabbinate. Their reach is long.

 

[anna ~ grace]

They have a lot of power and want to define Judaism for everyone. Rabbis have run afoul of them in America and other places. But all Jews know this. It isn’t a secret.

Jewish believers who accept Christ would have challenges in that atmosphere. To live there you can’t escape the Rabbinate. Their reach is long.

Yep. Especially as Shas and other Haredi groups have entered politics and gained ground. It's rough. And I get the sense that both Jewish and Gentile Christians will be increasingly harassed, pressured, trapped, and unprotected socially and legally within the State of Israel.

 

[anna ~ grace]

So my point is simply, before we blindly embrace Zionism politically or idealogically, before we worry ourselves over Israel as a Jewish State and her right to exist, before we worry about Jewish land rights historically or politically, we should worry about our fellow Christians. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, and Messianic, whether they are Jewish, or Gentile (There are ethnic Jews within Catholicism and Orthodoxy and various Protestant churces, too, so it's not even necessarily one or the other).

That should worry us first. Not that the above things are not also worth considering. They are. But our first thought should be to fellow believers, in spite of our differences. We all have Christ.

 

[bèlla]

Yep. Especially as Shas and other Haredi groups have entered politics and gained ground. It's rough. And I get the sense that both Jewish and Gentile Christians will be increasingly harassed, pressured, trapped, and unprotected socially and legally within the State of Israel.

I don’t know how far they’ll go but I’m aware of issues regarding conversions and Rabbis being banned. It isn’t solely related to believers.

Until Christianity develops oneness things will remain as they are.

 

[Douggg]

I would love to get the Jews' view of Revelation...........

Their view is that it is fabrication. They also view the four gospels as fabrication.

 

[JacksBratt]

THESE end times?
Maybe you don't know much about Catholic Eschatology, but Catholics, by and large, aren't proponents of modern, speculative end time theories.



I never said I don't recognize some people hate Israel, I simply disproved your unfounded claim that "all nations want to hate it"

Its factually untrue.



How is anything I have said antisemitic? That is a grievous charge, and you'd better have some proof to back it up... Calling me antisemitic simply because I have proven your claim that "all nations hate Israel" is untrue, doesn't cut it friend.



Who exactly isn't giving them the right to protect themselves from attacks on their innocent?
And how are they preventing them from exercising that right exactly?

I think you're making stuff up again....

I am making nothing up. Yes, I no very little about Catholic views on end times... but as Christians we should be awake and watching.

Secondly, I did not say that you were antisemitic... my point was that there is so much hate for Israel that there is a name for it... antisemitism.

Third, just because a nation, face value, is Israels ally... does not mean the nation does not hate them... Just look at the US... a strong ally yet the government gets so much flack when they try to help this tiny bullied country. Antisemitism is rampant throughout the world. Many don't believe that they should have the land... many think that Israel is doing genocide when all they are doing is protecting their country the same way that any country should.

So many are against this tiny country that they have to fight for the right to protect themselves and use adequate force to do so.

 

[Nige55]

Are you just making stuff up?

Here's the fact:
Israel has friendly, diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.

You have got to be Joking !! You are seriously deluded if you think that the world does not hate Israel, on every level. Nikki Haley spent the last few years of her career voicing and fighting the absolute double standards and bias against Israel within the UN.

 

[Nige55]

Why American evangelical Christians blindly support and defend the Israeli persecution of Israeli Christians is a mystery to me.

Please can you give us some evidence that American Evangelicals actually support the 'persecution of Israeli Christians' ? (As you stated).

Regarding the topic itself, I don't believe it's anywhere near as severe as the press makes out (and I do have reasons to support this). Also, on a side note, - think about Paul !

 

[JacksBratt]

If this is so, than why do they require billions of dollars in US aide?

That is puzzling since they are such a prosperous country.

 

[JacksBratt]

Is it your expectation that Jews who believe in Christ should forsake their people on your behalf? Not you personally of course.

Not a post to counter yours, but just on the same topic. The non messianic Jews are to be blessed... These are the ones out of which the 144,000 will come.

 

[BABerean2]

The non messianic Jews are to be blessed... These are the ones out of which the 144,000 will come.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

.

 

[JacksBratt]

So my point is simply, before we blindly embrace Zionism politically or idealogically, before we worry ourselves over Israel as a Jewish State and her right to exist, before we worry about Jewish land rights historically or politically, we should worry about our fellow Christians. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, and Messianic, whether they are Jewish, or Gentile (There are ethnic Jews within Catholicism and Orthodoxy and various Protestant churces, too, so it's not even necessarily one or the other).

That should worry us first. Not that the above things are not also worth considering. They are. But our first thought should be to fellow believers, in spite of our differences. We all have Christ.

I think we should treat every human equally, no matter what religion. If we look at people as human beings with different views and punish only those that bring harm to others..... it's pretty simple.

Any "religious" act of violence is simply and act of violence and inability to accept others and their views.

It really becomes a problem when one group takes the name of a certain religion and under this name acts out in violence......AND.. the actual religious leaders of this religion fail to condemn the act of violence.

Through history you can find groups from almost any religion using said religion as a reason, motivation or excuse for harm to others. This is never right.

If there was a religion that, as a whole and total mandate, was determined to annihilate anyone outside it's belief system, this would be a cause for concern and solid effort to stop it.

Israel from what I understand, allows Jew, Gentile, Arab and every other ethnic group to live, work, contribute, vote and even get education and health care as a civilian...

Hardly a nation to worry about as far as peace is concerned.

 

[Nige55]

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

.

Firstly, this applies to every single non believer. The world denies Christ, and yet so many seem to only address these verses when referring to the Jews.
Secondly, what does this mean for you ? What do you do with these verses ? If everyone who denies Christ is the antichrist, - do you cease from sharing the good news with them ? Do you cast them off them as doomed ? Beyond salvation ?
Thankfully, many Christians in Israel and who visit Israel want nothing more than for them to know their true Messiah.

 

[Nige55]

So my point is simply, before we blindly embrace Zionism politically or idealogically, before we worry ourselves over Israel as a Jewish State and her right to exist, before we worry about Jewish land rights historically or politically, we should worry about our fellow Christians. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, and Messianic, whether they are Jewish, or Gentile (There are ethnic Jews within Catholicism and Orthodoxy and various Protestant churces, too, so it's not even necessarily one or the other).

That should worry us first. Not that the above things are not also worth considering. They are. But our first thought should be to fellow believers, in spite of our differences. We all have Christ.

Can you please elaborate on the causes for worry for Christians in Israel ? Are they in the midst of a near genocide as they are in other parts of the middle east, such as Iraq, Syria and Libya ?
Should we not also address the cause of the majority of Palestinian Christians to leave their homeland. The population of Palestinian Christians has dropped from 15% to 2%.”
I'm not denying that there is persecution, but Christians are persecuted even here in the UK, so lets get some perspective. What exactly are we talking about ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Gracia Singh said: ↑
I am glad that the Jews have returned to the land of Israel. But they do not deserve our attention, help, or interest ahead of the lives, needs, struggles, and plights of the Christians who are already in the Holy Land.

LaBèlla said: ↑
Is it your expectation that Jews who believe in Christ should forsake their people on your behalf? Not you personally of course.

Not a post to counter yours, but just on the same topic. The non messianic Jews are to be blessed... These are the ones out of which the 144,000 will come.

Romans 11:1,2
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin…

The way it looks, Judah, the Priestly tribe of Levi and Benjamin are the only legitimate born Jews, which comprised the Southern House of Judah.........

Revelation7:4
I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:

1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"
=====================
The Two Houses Of Israel - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

Jeremiah 3:8
“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.
===========================
Daniel 11:15 “So the king of the North shall come and build a siege mound, and take a fortified City; and the forces of the South shall not withstand him. Even his choice troops shall have no strength to resist.

Didn't the Roman army come from the North against Jerusalem?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:1 And came one out of the seven Messengers, those having the seven vials/bowls, and He speaks with me, saying
"come-hither! I shall be showing to thee the judgment of the great harlot <4204> sitting upon many waters,
==============================
The way these maps look, the Jews are entitled to just the southern portion of Israel, including Jerusalem/Judea, which appears to be more in the land of Benjamin. Not sure, but in any case, I am glad I don't have to figure out which tribe I am and which plot of land I inherit. I will stick with God's country of Texas...

 

[JacksBratt]

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

.

Yes, But they have done this over and over since Israel was named Israel.... They will always be His chosen and they will be the people from which the 144,000 come.

 

[JacksBratt]

Romans 11:1,2
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin…

The way it looks, Judah, the Priestly tribe of Levi and Benjamin are the only legitimate born Jews, the house of Judah.........

Revelation7:4
I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:
1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

The Two Houses Of Israel - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

Jeremiah 3:8
“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.

Daniel 11:15 “So the king of the North shall come and build a siege mound, and take a fortified City; and the forces of the South shall not withstand him. Even his choice troops shall have no strength to resist.

Didn't the Roman army come from the North against Jerusalem?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:1 And came one out of the seven Messengers, those having the seven vials/bowls, and He speaks with me, saying
"come-hither! I shall be showing to thee the judgment of the great harlot <4204> sitting upon many waters,
==============================
The way these maps look, the Jews are entitled to just the southern portion of Israel, including Jerusalem/Judea, which appears to be more in the land of Benjamin. Not sure, but in any case, I am glad I don't have to figure out which tribe I am and which plot of land I inherit. I will stick with God's country of Texas...



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This is great information.. However, the bible is clear that 12,000 will come from each tribe.