Eternal Security

[setst777]

People can only believe if they are Sheep Jn 10:26

That is not what the Passage says. Read it carefully in context:

John 10:26-29 (WEB) 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

The ones who do not believe are identified by Lord Jesus as not being the sheep the Father gave Him (compare vs. 26, vs. 29).

Only the sheep who believe (vs. 26) – synonymous with those who hear and follow Him (vs. 27) – are guaranteed eternal life (vs. 28), which are the sheep that the Father gives to the Son (vs. 29)

 

[setst777]

Thats why the believer is eternally secure, they have been once and for all born of God.

Only as we drink (continuous) and believe (continuous) are we given life in the Spirit.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! (continuous) 38 He who believes (continuous) in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is not what the Passage says. Read it carefully in context:

John 10:26-29 (WEB) 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

The ones who do not believe are identified by Lord Jesus as not being the sheep the Father gave Him (compare vs. 26, vs. 29).

Only the sheep who believe (vs. 26) – synonymous with those who hear and follow Him (vs. 27) – are guaranteed eternal life (vs. 28), which are the sheep that the Father gives to the Son (vs. 29)

Yes it is. You have to be a Sheep in order to believe, and if you never believe, its because you were never a Sheep Jn 10:26

 

[Brightfame52]

Only as we drink (continuous) and believe (continuous) are we given life in the Spirit.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! (continuous) 38 He who believes (continuous) in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Once born of God you dont become unborn.

 

[setst777]

Yes it is. You have to be a Sheep in order to believe, and if you never believe, its because you were never a Sheep Jn 10:26

All Lord Jesus is saying is:

'You do not believe (continuous) because you are not my sheep.'

Lord Jesus did NOT say:

You cannot believe unless you are my sheep.

Lord Jesus is identifying the sheep that are His from those who are not His. The ones who do not believe are identified by Lord Jesus as not being the sheep the Father gave Him (compare vs. 26, vs. 29).

Only the sheep who believe (vs. 26) – synonymous with those who hear and follow Him (vs. 27) – are guaranteed eternal life (vs. 28), which are the sheep that the Father gives to the Son (vs. 29)

 

[setst777]

Once born of God you dont become unborn.

So you say, but the Word of God clearly teaches us that:

• we must drink (continuous)
• and believe (continuous)

to be given Spiritual life by the Spirit who indwells us by believing (continuous).

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! (continuous) 38 He who believes (continuous) in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing (continuous) in him were to receive.

 

[Brightfame52]

All Lord Jesus is saying is:

'You do not believe (continuous) because you are not my sheep.'

Lord Jesus did NOT say:

You cannot believe unless you are my sheep.

Lord Jesus is identifying the sheep that are His from those who are not His. The ones who do not believe are identified by Lord Jesus as not being the sheep the Father gave Him (compare vs. 26, vs. 29).

Only the sheep who believe (vs. 26) – synonymous with those who hear and follow Him (vs. 27) – are guaranteed eternal life (vs. 28), which are the sheep that the Father gives to the Son (vs. 29)

Its Jesus responsibility not to lose a Sheep. He said they shall never perish, you said they can.

 

[Brightfame52]

So you say, but the Word of God clearly teaches us that:

• we must drink (continuous)
• and believe (continuous)

to be given Spiritual life by the Spirit who indwells us by believing (continuous).

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! (continuous) 38 He who believes (continuous) in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing (continuous) in him were to receive.

Being born again cant be undone, that person never dies. Jn 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[setst777]

Its Jesus responsibility not to lose a Sheep. He said they shall never perish, you said they can.

Lord Jesus promises to give eternal life to all those who believing in Him demonstrated by hearing Him and following Him.

Being born again cant be undone, that person never dies. Jn 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

You say being born again cannot be undone, but the Scriptures say we only have Spiritual life by faith. Whom shall I believe, you are God's Word?

John 11:25-26 (WEB)
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will still live, even if he dies. 26 Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Even while you still live, if you continue to believe, you will never die spiritually.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 20:31 (WEB) but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name

 

[renniks]

He not keeping a promise if a Sheep He had perish, when He said of His Sheep, they shall never perish, then He lied !

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it any more sensible.

 

[renniks]

He is responsible for His Sheep, if they become not His Sheep, thats His fault !

Not according to scripture, which tells us we must remain in the vine, we must continue, we must follow.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, very true.

2 Timothy 2:12 (WEB) If we deny (reject) him, he also will deny (reject) us.

Paul includes himself as the "we" and "us." Paul is warning the church of believers whom he is writing to that denying or rejecting Him is a possibility, so we must continue to remain faithful to the end demonstrated in a sanctified life before Him.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (WEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who do not know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

No Paul is not warning the church, this is a personal letter from Paul to Timothy. Both of the epistles to Timothy are personal letters not addressed to any congregation but addressed directly to Timothy alone. That’s what makes this particular verse so powerful because it is from Paul to Timothy whom we know that both were true followers of Christ and if these two true followers of Christ were capable of denying Christ and Christ is capable of denying them, then this is concrete evidence that even true believers can lose their salvation if they turn away from Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

People can only believe if they are Sheep Jn 10:26

Or they don’t believe because they don’t hear and follow.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This has been said by Christians from every denomination one time or another. If it was clear, we all would have the same theology. Our theology is often based on which verses we put most weight on. Not saying your conclusions are wrong, just saying we have to be humble about the fact that scripture isn't easy and rarely as clear as we wish it to be.

Well I think it can be to those who are open minded. For example I’ve quoted 2 Timothy 2:12 several times in this thread and not a single eternal security advocate will explain how this verse doesn’t contradict eternal security. They’re just not willing to because they can’t. So they’re turning a blind eye to it in order to hold on to their doctrine instead of contemplating how eternal security can be true without contradicting this verse. As well as John 15:1-7.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This has been said by Christians from every denomination one time or another. If it was clear, we all would have the same theology. Our theology is often based on which verses we put most weight on. Not saying your conclusions are wrong, just saying we have to be humble about the fact that scripture isn't easy and rarely as clear as we wish it to be.

I admit that you are correct it isn’t easy. It was hard for me to accept when I was making the transition from believing in eternal security to a more Orthodox understanding of the scriptures.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thats why the believer is eternally secure, they have been once and for all born of God.

Those who are born again can grieve the Holy Spirit once again becoming sons of disobedience Ephesians 4 & 5

 

[zoidar]

Well I think it can be to those who are open minded. For example I’ve quoted 2 Timothy 2:12 several times in this thread and not a single eternal security advocate will explain how this verse doesn’t contradict eternal security. They’re just not willing to because they can’t. So they’re turning a blind eye to it in order to hold on to their doctrine instead of contemplating how eternal security can be true without contradicting this verse. As well as John 15:1-7.

If that is correct then they need to look through their theology, obviously.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If that is correct then they need to look through their theology, obviously.

Amen my whole point is that our beliefs must line up with all scripture, so if there are verses that contradict our beliefs then we have to reevaluate our beliefs in order to coincide with all scripture. It’s not a matter of this verse trumps another verse it’s a matter of all scripture is true.

 

[michael21]

Amen my whole point is that our beliefs must line up with all scripture, so if there are verses that contradict our beliefs then we have to reevaluate our beliefs in order to coincide with all scripture. It’s not a matter of this verse trumps another verse it’s a matter of all scripture is true.

Actually clinging to selective verses(something we can all be guilty of at times) will inhibit us from truth. As one brother said to me once:
'We must read the bible as one cohesive whole' That can be painful at times, but needful

 

[Brightfame52]

Lord Jesus promises to give eternal life to all those who believing in Him demonstrated by hearing Him and following Him.



You say being born again cannot be undone, but the Scriptures say we only have Spiritual life by faith. Whom shall I believe, you are God's Word?

John 11:25-26 (WEB)
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will still live, even if he dies. 26 Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Even while you still live, if you continue to believe, you will never die spiritually.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 20:31 (WEB) but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name

Its Jesus responsility that the Sheep believe, and continue to believe, so that they dont perish like He promised. You teach that Christs Sheep can quit believing, stop being a Sheep, and perish. You totally disregard Christs promise and ability to keep His promise that His Sheep shall not perish. You say the opposite !