Eternal Security

[setst777]

You sound correct here, however when you say "As long as you continue believing, then you have passed from death to life." i hope you dont mean that believing is a condition of man, but a evidence of God preserving one in believing. In other words, believing is evidence that one has already been given eternal life.

Believing is a condition, not of man, but a condition of God to receive eternal life.

John 3:16

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

 

[Servus]

I think this video fits the thread. It's Jordan Cooper a Lutheran theologian. 17 min, if someone is interested.

I've always enjoyed listening to him.

 

[setst777]

I don't know how much you know Greek. But take a look at this. Not saying you are wrong, but be careful with Greek.

I totally agree with the video explanation. Only if the disciple faithfully follows Jesus to the end will he sit on one of the 12 thrones judging Israel. Consequently, this will happen during the Millennial reign of Christ.

 

[renniks]

That doesnt make sense. Jesus made a promise, thats it, He must be faithful to it !

He is. But that's like saying if my wife leaves me for another man, I have to drag her back to me and make her stay by force. That's not love.

 

[setst777]

Those who heard and followed were His Sheep, and they shall never perish. Everyone else arent His Sheep.

True, those who hear and follow Lord Jesus are identified as the true sheep of Lord Jesus whom the Father gives to the Son.

That doesnt make sense. Jesus made a promise, thats it, He must be faithful to it !

All God promises are ours through faith in Lord Jesus.

Romans 4:16 (NIV) 16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

 

[Brightfame52]

Believing is a condition, not of man, but a condition of God to receive eternal life.

John 3:16

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

That sounds like conditional work salvation ! Care to clarify

 

[Brightfame52]

He is. But that's like saying if my wife leaves me for another man, I have to drag her back to me and make her stay by force. That's not love.

He not keeping a promise if a Sheep He had perish, when He said of His Sheep, they shall never perish, then He lied !

 

[setst777]

That sounds like conditional work salvation ! Care to clarify

Did Lord Jesus clarify adequately?

John 3:16 (WEB)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (continuous) in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows (continuous) me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

 

[setst777]

He not keeping a promise if a Sheep He had perish, when He said of His Sheep, they shall never perish, then He lied !

Lord Jesus made the promise to the sheep who believe (continuous) in Him demonstrated by hearing His voice and following Him.

 

[Brightfame52]

The believer is born of God. John 1:12,13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

 

[Brightfame52]

Lord Jesus made the promise to the sheep who believe (continuous) in Him demonstrated by hearing His voice and following Him.

He is responsible for His Sheep, if they become not His Sheep, thats His fault !

 

[Brightfame52]

Did Lord Jesus clarify adequately?

John 3:16 (WEB)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (continuous) in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows (continuous) me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Jesus is responsible for His Sheep, they believe because they His Sheep. If for some reason they stop believing in Him, its His fault ! If they stop following Him its His fault

 

[setst777]

He is responsible for His Sheep, if they become not His Sheep, thats His fault !

His sheep are only those who believe, demonstrated by hearing and following Him. The sheep who do not believe, or do not continue to believe in Lord Jesus, are not His sheep.

 

[setst777]

The believer is born of God. John 1:12,13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

We are born of God by the Spirit living in us, and the Spirit will only indwell those who believe - a continuous believing.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! (continuous) 38 He who believes (continuous) in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Only by the Spirit of Christ IN us do we have life in the Spirit.

Romans 8:9-10 (WEB) 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his. 10 If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

 

[BNR32FAN]

bnr



Lk 15:4-5

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

You have a low opinion of the Shepherd Jesus Christ dont you friend ?

No I don’t have a low opinion of Christ at all and you know that. Your statement is nothing more than a childish attack so I’ll not even waste my time trying to explain the meaning of “uncertain affinity” aka the word “until” in the Greek language because you won’t hear it. Your problem is you don’t try to understand how both 2 Timothy 2:12 and John 10:28 can both be true. You only focus of John 10:28 and completely ignore 2 Timothy 2:12 which is why your understanding of John 10:28 can never be sound theology.

 

[BNR32FAN]

His sheep are only those who believe, demonstrated by hearing and following Him. The sheep who do not believe, or do not continue to believe in Lord Jesus, are not His sheep.

Which makes perfect sense when compared to 2 Timothy 2:12. Unfortunately some allow their doctrines to define the scriptures instead of allowing the scriptures to define their doctrines.

 

[setst777]

Which makes perfect sense when compared to 2 Timothy 2:12. Unfortunately some allow their doctrines to define the scriptures instead of allowing the scriptures to define their doctrines.

Yes, very true.

2 Timothy 2:12 (WEB) If we deny (reject) him, he also will deny (reject) us.

Paul includes himself as the "we" and "us." Paul is warning the church of believers whom he is writing to that denying or rejecting Him is a possibility, so we must continue to remain faithful to the end demonstrated in a sanctified life before Him.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (WEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who do not know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

 

[Brightfame52]

His sheep are only those who believe, demonstrated by hearing and following Him. The sheep who do not believe, or do not continue to believe in Lord Jesus, are not His sheep.

People can only believe if they are Sheep Jn 10:26

 

[Brightfame52]

We are born of God by the Spirit living in us, and the Spirit will only indwell those who believe - a continuous believing.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! (continuous) 38 He who believes (continuous) in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Only by the Spirit of Christ IN us do we have life in the Spirit.

Romans 8:9-10 (WEB) 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his. 10 If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Thats why the believer is eternally secure, they have been once and for all born of God.

 

[zoidar]

...Unfortunately some allow their doctrines to define the scriptures instead of allowing the scriptures to define their doctrines.

This has been said by Christians from every denomination one time or another. If it was clear, we all would have the same theology. Our theology is often based on which verses we put most weight on. Not saying your conclusions are wrong, just saying we have to be humble about the fact that scripture isn't easy and rarely as clear as we wish it to be.