Eternal Security

[lismore]

Hello

Just wondering how you feel about the doctrine of eternal security?

Thanks and God Bless

 

[OzSpen]

Hello

Just wondering how you feel about the doctrine of eternal security?

Thanks and God Bless

Would you care to provide us with your definition of eternal security so that we have your starting point for a discussion?

Oz

 

[lismore]

Would you care to provide us with your definition of eternal security so that we have your starting point for a discussion?

Oz

Hello Oz

I mean it in the sense of once saved always saved, nothing can separate us from the love of God.

In my previous church they taught that you could 'loose your salvation', I disagreed with their teaching. Hence my interest in the subject

God Bless

 

[98cwitr]

I agree with OSAS thanks to John 10.

 

[lismore]

I agree with OSAS thanks to John 10.

A great passage. Thanks for sharing!

 

[OzSpen]

I agree with OSAS thanks to John 10.

I consider that the language of perseverance of the saints fits better with the biblical material than the language of OSAS, especially in light of the content of 1 Tim 1:19 and Heb 6:4-6.

 

[JM]

I feel warm and fuzzy, kitten kisses all over my face, that's how I feel about this doctrine!
______________________________________________

For real, this doctrine humbles me, I see it all over scripture. The promises of Christ to save His people from eternity is too deep to fathom. Don Fortner sums it up best so I made a video using a clip from one of his God exalting sermons.

Mighty to Save - YouTube

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[dogs4thewin]

I do not do once saved always saved.

 

[JM]

I do not do once saved always saved.

Do you do once saved, sometimes saved? (for those who are unsure of what Christ accomplished on the cross)

How about sometimes (acts) saved, always saved? (antinomianism)

Never saved, maybe saved? (universalism)

Maybe saved, JM behavior? (JM's acting like a fool)

 

[dogs4thewin]

Do you do once saved, sometimes saved? (for those who are unsure of what Christ accomplished on the cross)

How about sometimes (acts) saved, always saved? (antinomianism)

Never saved, maybe saved? (universalism)

Maybe saved, JM behavior? (JM's acting like a fool)

I believe that God does not leave us, HOWEVER we can leave Him through repeated sin ( if we have no plans of changing and do not care) Also if we consistently refuse to obey His will. I do not believe that leaving Him is easy, however.

 

[Heisluv]

I believe in OSAS. However, I believe that we can lose our fellowship with God.

 

[OzSpen]

I feel warm and fuzzy, kitten kisses all over my face, that's how I feel about this doctrine!
______________________________________________

For real, this doctrine humbles me, I see it all over scripture. The promises of Christ to save His people from eternity is too deep to fathom. Don Fortner sums it up best so I made a video using a clip from one of his God exalting sermons.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I get the warm and fuzzies that the OSAS doctrine lacks biblical consistency when I consider 1 Tim 1:19 and Heb 6:4-6.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I believe in OSAS. However, I believe that we can lose our fellowship with God.

How come? I thought that reconciliation with God meant fellowship with God. How come there can be reconciliation and loss of fellowship?

 

[MrJim]

Some of the bigger threads dating back to 2010 on the subject...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7746906/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7663118/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7631262/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7550955/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7542918/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7517379/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7477889/

 

[98cwitr]

I consider that the language of perseverance of the saints fits better with the biblical material than the language of OSAS, especially in light of the content of 1 Tim 1:19 and Heb 6:4-6.

Neither of those verses state that the person [in context] had received salvation from God. Find me something that said that a person had been reborn and still fell away.

I just cannot accept that God would give salvation to a person, knowing He'd just take it away again. Doesn't add up.

 

[98cwitr]

How come? I thought that reconciliation with God meant fellowship with God. How come there can be reconciliation and loss of fellowship?

I think about it like this: When you're an adult, you dont really talk to your parents as much or in the same way you did as a child...but we should. And this is how it is with loss of fellowship imo. Loss of fellowship for a real Christian is always a temporary thing.

 

[JM]

Hello

Just wondering how you feel about the doctrine of eternal security?

Thanks and God Bless

Another good point to consider is the high Priestly prayer of Christ in John 17,

"Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."
​

If God the Father doesn't hear the prayers of God the son we have a disconnect in the Godhead. You would have to deny the unity of the Trinity to suggest that Christ's prayers for the church are not heard.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: I prefer the term preservation or perseverance of the saints. Eternal security and once saved always saved has a tint of antinomianism in modern evangelicalism.

 

[OzSpen]

These verses have created extensive debate through the centuries, Hebrews 6:4-8:

For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned (ESV).

What could be clearer. These verses begin with, 'For it is impossible to restore again to repentance....'. Thus, it is speaking of those who had formerly repented and they need restoration back to repentance.

Repentance is a prerequisite for those who enter the kingdom of God for salvation (Lk 15:7, 10; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 17:30; 26:20; 2 Cor 7:10; 2 Pet 3:9) - those who are born again. To add to this necessity of repentance, we have further descriptions to confirm this born again, repentant nature of salvation:

• 'once been enlightened';
• 'tasted the heavenly gift';
• 'shared in the Holy Spirit';
• 'tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come'.

How is it possible for a non-believer who has not repented, who has not been born again to have 'shared in the Holy Spirit'?

It is possible for these to 'fall away' (commit apostasy) from the faith and in doing so 'they are crucifying once again the Son of God' and this leads to their own harm through apostasy. They are holding Jesus up to contempt by their actions.

I have provided a lengthy exposition of Hebrews 6:4-8 at: Once Saved, Always Saved or Once Saved, Lost Again?

Oz

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

As one preacher of old stated when asked if he believed in once saved always saved, he replied, yes I believe that with a strong emphasis on once. Many claim that a Christian can commit apostasy but that is not taught in scripture. The 1828 Webster dictionary gives this meaning for apostasy: Apostasy, n. [Gr. a defection, to depart.] An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion.So when one understands what Jesus taught about His true disciples then they can see that a true disciple will never do that, John 8:30-32 As He spoke these words, http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn1many believed in Him.31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn2abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn3truth, and http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn4the truth shall make you free.” A new creation in Christ is sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, and it is God who places the seal of the Holy Spirit in a person's heart, therefore the true disciples is known by God and only seals those who will abide because it is He who works in the heart of the believer to keep them abiding. Phil 2:13 for it is God working in you to will and to do of His good pleasure and this is to transform every one of His children into the image of His dear Son, Jesus, Rom 8:28-29 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn1who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn2He foreknew, http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn3He also predestined http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn4to be conformed to the image of His Son, http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn5that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. So I am resting in Christ Jesus and trust Him to fulfill His words, because it is impossible for Him to fail. Ps 37:23-24 The steps of a good man are http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn2ordered by the Lord, And He delights in his way.24 http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn3Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the Lord upholds him with His hand. There are those who have been hanging on for a season, for whatever reason, but He wasn't holding on to them, They went out from us, but they were not of us; for http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn1if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn2that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. He is always faithful and if He says it will come to pass, it will come to pass.http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn3 http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftnref1


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http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/apostasy

 

[OzSpen]

As one preacher of old stated when asked if he believed in once saved always saved, he replied, yes I believe that with a strong emphasis on once. Many claim that a Christian can commit apostasy but that is not taught in scripture. The 1828 Webster dictionary gives this meaning for apostasy: Apostasy, n. [Gr. a defection, to depart.] An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion.So when one understands what Jesus taught about His true disciples then they can see that a true disciple will never do that, John 8:30-32 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” A new creation in Christ is sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, and it is God who places the seal of the Holy Spirit in a person's heart, therefore the true disciples is known by God and only seals those who will abide because it is He who works in the heart of the believer to keep them abiding. Phil 2:13 for it is God working in you to will and to do of His good pleasure and this is to transform every one of His children into the image of His dear Son, Jesus, Rom 8:28-29 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. So I am resting in Christ Jesus and trust Him to fulfill His words, because it is impossible for Him to fail. Ps 37:23-24 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, And He delights in his way.24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the Lord upholds him with His hand. There are those who have been hanging on for a season, for whatever reason, but He wasn't holding on to them, They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. He is always faithful and if He says it will come to pass, it will come to pass.

You tell us: 'Many claim that a Christian can commit apostasy but that is not taught in scripture'

Please tell us the meaning of the Greek apostasia (transliteration) in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

Oz