Eternal Damnation, Conditional Immortality, or Universal Reconciliation: A CF poll

Saint Steven · Dec 26, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
He is because Jesus says so, not because the Psalms say so.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

All Becomes New · Dec 26, 2022

Saint Steven said:
You got me there. - LOL
I guess we are done. We seem to be at an impasse.

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

We are only at an impasse if you think Christ was a sinner.

All Becomes New · Dec 26, 2022

Tomptegubbar said:
you've not rationalized isa 66:23 yet, "All flesh shall worship before me".
Does that not count because it was written by a prophet?

No, it just means all people will acknowledge that Christ is Lord. Does not mean all will be saved.

All Becomes New · Dec 26, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Yes, some of the Psalms are Messianic. Not all are though. It still doesn't change the fact that the Psalms are poetic and not to be taken literally.

Saint Steven · Dec 26, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
We are only at an impasse if you think Christ was a sinner.

Boo! Hiss!
Does this "all" mean all of humankind, or no? Does Jesus' sinlessness nullify this verse?

Romans 3:23 NIV
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

All Becomes New · Dec 26, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Boo! Hiss!
Does this "all" mean all of humankind, or no? Does Jesus' sinlessness nullify this verse?

Romans 3:23 NIV
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Many do not mean all. It is that simple. For why else would Paul say we can be "blameless" if it is not a reality that some are blameless before God? So many are made righteous. Not all are made righteous. It's why in the first instance, it says all, and in the second, it says many.

All Becomes New · Dec 26, 2022

Tomptegubbar said:
"The restoration of ALL THINGS, spoken by the mouth of ALL HIS HOLY Prophets" - Acts 3:21
Acts 3:25 goes on to say this is the fullfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, "that in thy seed shall all nations be blessed"
Yup, Jesus "gave himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time" - I Tim 2:6

Eternal Damnation is a total doctrine of devils perpetuated by the darkness of the antichrist nature of mortal man.
Not Sorry.

According to you, even the anti-Christ will be saved, so I fail to see your point.

Saint Steven · Dec 26, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Many do not mean all.

THE many, THE many! (ALL)

Der Alte · Dec 26, 2022

Tomptegubbar said:
"The restoration of ALL THINGS, spoken by the mouth of ALL HIS HOLY Prophets" - Acts 3:21
Acts 3:25 goes on to say this is the fullfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, "that in thy seed shall all nations be blessed"
Yup, Jesus "gave himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time" - I Tim 2:6
Eternal Damnation is a total doctrine of devils perpetuated by the darkness of the antichrist nature of mortal man.
Not Sorry.

Anybody can make the Bible say almost anything by quoting isolated vss. cuz. that ain't what Jesus, Himslef said.

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus did not say everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus said "Not every one ... shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Then Jesus said, "Many, [NOT a few] will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not ... in your name done many wonderful works? Then Jesus will say to them "I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." When Jesus say "never" He means never not someday by and by.

Saint Steven · Dec 26, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
It's why in the first instance, it says all, and in the second, it says many.

THE many, THE many! - lol
How many were made sinners? (all)

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Der Alte · Dec 26, 2022

Tomptegubbar said:
"The restoration of ALL THINGS, spoken by the mouth of ALL HIS HOLY Prophets" - Acts 3:21
Acts 3:25 goes on to say this is the fullfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, "that in thy seed shall all nations be blessed"
Yup, Jesus "gave himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time" - I Tim 2:6

Eternal Damnation is a total doctrine of devils perpetuated by the darkness of the antichrist nature of mortal man.
Not Sorry.

"Restoration of all things," People ain't things!

Der Alte · Dec 26, 2022

Hmm said:
Were the "Encyclopedia Judaica" splitters from the "Jewish Encyclopedia" like Python's Judean People's Front were from the People's Front of Judea?

Nope! An updated encyclopedia containing scholarly material not contained in the 100+ year old version.

All Becomes New · Dec 26, 2022

Saint Steven said:
THE many, THE many! (ALL)

Please demonstrate your point with scripture.

All Becomes New · Dec 26, 2022

Saint Steven said:
THE many, THE many! - lol
How many were made sinners? (all)

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Way to cherry-pick my post.

Fervent · Dec 26, 2022

Hmm said:
We have reached an impasse again, thankfully.

I was really looking forward to how you would explain discarding Jesus' own words.

Der Alte · Dec 26, 2022

Saint Steven said:
THE many, THE many! (ALL)

Saint Steven said:
THE many, THE Many!(ALL)

Paul used the word " πολλοι/polloi"/"many," 71 times.
Paul used the word "πας/pas"/"all," 375 times
When Paul wanted to say “all” he used "pas," not "polloi"/”many.”
Paul used “oi polloi”/”the many” 12 times where it clearly does not mean "all."
Romans 12:5, Romans 15:22-23, Romans 16:2,1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 10:33, 2 Corinthians 2:17, 2 Corinthians 8:15, Ephesians 2:4, Colossians 4:13, 1 Timothy 3:13
In one verse 1 Cor 10:33 Paul used “the many,” once, and “all,” twice, in the same verse.

1 Corinthians 10:33
33 Even as I please all [παντα] men in all [πασιν] things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many [των πολλων], that they may be saved.

Paul certainly did not please every person alive during his lifetime.
Paul certainly did not please all men in literally all things.

Saint Steven · Dec 26, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Way to cherry-pick my post.

That was the main point, THE many, THE many!
Would you like additional criticism?

Jipsah · Dec 26, 2022

Tomptegubbar said:
drip, drip . . "And all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee". Psalm 22:27

Yeah, but it's only 1 of each kindred.

Jipsah · Dec 26, 2022

Tomptegubbar said:
so does the mercy of the Lord not literally endureth forever too?

Well no, what that really means is that God's malice endures forever. The two words look a lot alike, so they're frequently confused.

Jipsah · Dec 26, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

"All" as used there obviously really means "a few people", or "some people".

Saint Steven said:
It doesn't say MANY, it says THE MANY. And the same THE MANY for being made righteous.

What St Paul was trying to convey was 'not too many", because most people who God creates will be tortured (or if you prefer. "tormented") forever, to the Glory of God.

Eternal Damnation, Conditional Immortality, or Universal Reconciliation: A CF poll

Which position do you hold?

Eternal Damnation

Conditional Immortality

Universal Reconciliation

Agnostic

You can call me Steve

Slave to Christ

Slave to Christ

Slave to Christ

You can call me Steve

Slave to Christ

Slave to Christ

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Slave to Christ

Slave to Christ

Well-Known Member

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

You can call me Steve

Blood Drinker

Blood Drinker

Blood Drinker

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