Eternal Conscious Hell Fire is completely Justified

[Der Alte]

Here is a simple test to try and hash out this thread:
Jesus IS the exact representation of his Father....the God of all creation.
Now, a few questions:
Did Jesus....
Kill anyone?
Torture anyone?
Put a curse on anyone?
Blind anyone?
Steal from anyone?

I think Jesus put a curse on a tree once.

 

[mmksparbud]

I think Jesus put a curse on a tree once.

LOL! Yes He did and it withered and died. For that matter--it was Jesus throughout the OT.

 

[Der Alte]

In the Old Testament God said eye for an eye. Eternal Hell is infinite eyes for however many eyes were ruined in that person's life. God is perfect, so how would he accept this? Why wouldn't he just not hand out eternal life to everyone? Is God incapable of that?

"eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" etc is not a command to exact vengeance. That is the maximum that a person may do. For example if someone steals a cow, he cannot get the death penalty.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Making Sense of Hell | Dan Hitchens

"'But I do not say, indeed, that all souls die; for that were truly a piece of good fortune to the evil. What then? The souls of the pious remain in a better place, while those of the unjust and wicked are in a worse, waiting for the time of judgment. Thus some which have appeared worthy of God never die; but others are punished so long as God wills them to exist and to be punished.'

Saint Justin Martyr: Dialogue with Trypho
= Luke 16:19-31, "Abraham's Bosom"

 

[Dkh587]

I learned to read when FDR was president and I formally studied both Biblical languages at the graduate level almost 4 decades ago.

I have been doing this since Johnson was president. I doubt that anyone is going to catch me in any significant error.

Claims like these are pointless. Anybody can sit behind a computer anonymously and claim whatever they want. It’s like a fart in a windstorm.

Nobody cares how long you or anybody else have been doing anything.

Besides, it’s usually the people boasting of their years of experience that could afford to learn a thing or 2.

 

[createdtoworship]

Claims like these are pointless. Anybody can sit behind a computer anonymously and claim whatever they want. It’s like a fart in a windstorm.

Nobody cares how long you or anybody else have been doing anything.

Besides, it’s usually the people boasting of their years of experience that could afford to learn a thing or 2.

an appeal to authority some believe is mentioning our qualifications, but it's not. Appeals to authority are only fallacies if it is not a true authority. For example if I coached soccer once and therefore am a soccer pro. I would not be. But if someone studies biblical languages on a graduate level, that is worth something in a conversation about biblical languages. That does not mean that what they say is correct. But it does add some weight to the conversation. What I would do next is instead of insulting his qualifications find a factual error in what was said.

 

[StrivingFollower]

So if God instead of eternally punishing people, had a system where sinners were punished for many years. Let's say 100 years. What would your criticism of that theoretical system be? Why would you say that God chose eternal punishment over that? When he had the power to make us non-eternal in the first place.

 

[Der Alte]

Claims like these are pointless. Anybody can sit behind a computer anonymously and claim whatever they want. It’s like a fart in a windstorm.
Nobody cares how long you or anybody else have been doing anything.
Besides, it’s usually the people boasting of their years of experience that could afford to learn a thing or 2.

I was talking to a particular person in reply to him saying to me. "You obviously believe what you were told to believe." And I explained why that was false. Now since you have interjected your opinion into this, please feel free to try to prove that I am wrong on anything I have posted. If you can't put up you know the rest.

 

[Dkh587]

an appeal to authority some believe is mentioning our qualifications, but it's not. Appeals to authority are only fallacies if it is not a true authority. For example if I coached soccer once and therefore am a soccer pro. I would not be. But if someone studies biblical languages on a graduate level, that is worth something in a conversation about biblical languages. That does not mean that what they say is correct. But it does add some weight to the conversation. What I would do next is instead of insulting his qualifications find a factual error in what was said.

Claims don’t add weight to an online discussion, because like I said, anybody can claim anything in an anonymous online discussion.

Usually, people will throw out how many years, or whatever other experience they have as a defense mechanism when their education or doctrine is challenged, and are fighting to hold on to their doctrine.

I rarely see someone use it in a constructive and edifying way on here, or anywhere else really - it’s always referenced in the attitude of “Ive studied longer than you, so I’m right”. That’s certainly what has been exemplified in this very thread.

It would be nice to see people put their experience to use rather than telling us about it, because much of the time, we only hear about it, rather than seeing it and gleaning from it.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<D5>Claims don’t add weight to an online discussion, because like I said, anybody can claim anything in an anonymous online discussion.
Usually, people will throw out how many years, or whatever other experience they have as a defense mechanism when their education or doctrine is challenged, and are fighting to hold on to their doctrine.
I rarely see someone use it in a constructive and edifying way on here, or anywhere else really - it’s always referenced in the attitude of “Ive studied longer than you, so I’m right”. That’s certainly what has been exemplified in this very thread.
It would be nice to see people put their experience to use rather than telling us about it, because much of the time, we only hear about it, rather than seeing it and gleaning from it.<D5>

end

You say "Claims' don't add weight to an online discussion..." Empty accusations certainly don't add any weight to a discussion. I have already explained my post, you attacking the same post again could be considered stalking. If you want to see my experience read some of my posts e.g. Posts 120/121 this thread. Also you might want to review the forum rules. See the 7th section.
Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

 

[createdtoworship]

So if God instead of eternally punishing people, had a system where sinners were punished for many years. Let's say 100 years. What would your criticism of that theoretical system be? Why would you say that God chose eternal punishment over that? When he had the power to make us non-eternal in the first place.

I use 100 years per sin as an introductory non biblical example of the logic behind eternity. If someone sins 30,000 times a year, and served 100 years per sin. That's 3 million years. Now we sin way more than 1 times a day so that number is 10 or 40 times higher. Now to answer your question. If logically its rational to punish for 100 years per sin. Is it rational to kill for a sin. Murder for example many say is a situation where someone may be killed for their sin, called capital punishment. The logic is life for life. Which makes logical sense. Now if you take a Holy God. The punishment is more extreme. And for reasons I have mentioned before. Mainly His first hand koel edge of our sin and that while we can turn our heads and not look on sin, God cant. So that increases the punishment, say at this point we are killed for any sin. Just because of the fact God will never forget our sin, and cannot turn His face from our sin, it's purpetually in front of Him for eternity. Because God exists outside of time. So now the next logical step is eternity. We view eternity as lots of time. It's not. It's actually no time. So to compare 3 million years is prison compared to eternity is nit really the same. Eternity is a place, not a time period. So to kill someone in eternity means they have eternal death. Especially if their bodies are glorified flesh which cannot technically be killed. One may have the pain of dying, but not actually die. And so this is the statext of the unrepentant sinner. Eternally dying, and never accomplishing it. One sin is enough to condemn us to hell. Mainly because heaven and God is perfect. To be in God's presence as a sinner, is to be a log on a fire. Angels could not even be in God's presence without wings covering them. When God decended on Mount Sinai to talk to Moses what happened to the mountain, it caught on fire. So in an illustrating way hell could simply be what happens when when a sinner is in the presence of God, he is consumed with fire because of His impurity. In the old testament when God decended on the arc if the covenant if the arc tipped and a soldiet who was unclean touched the arc, he would die. When a non christian army opened up the arc, they all died instantly. They then returned the arc to israel. In the temple they would put a rope on the high priest, because if for some reason the annual purification sacrifice did not work, he would die when he entered the holiest place where the arc was. And no one else could go in for another year, so the priest would rot. So as we can see one sin does equal death, and eternity is not a lot of time, it's simply a place in the universe, a place without time. So all of these things justify eternal torment of the sinner logically in my mind.

 

[Tom 1]

The premise that the Bible is a symbolic book, much less a “highly” symbolic one, is a false premise.

This where you need to start, if you want to understand both what is wrong with your argument, and what is wrong with this statement. 'Symbolism' isn't the issue here. The only think I can suggest is going back to Genesis and starting from there, reading as widely as you to build up an understanding of the different perspectives on the text. That gives you a good starting point. Of course it's up to you, but if you don't do that, all you basically have is a bunch of stuff that was pushed at you in whatever church you go to, thrown in with a few references without much context. There are so many good resources on understanding the bible now that there's no good excuse not to properly check it all out.

 

[createdtoworship]

This where you need to start, if you want to understand both what is wrong with your argument, and what is wrong with this statement. 'Symbolism' isn't the issue here. The only think I can suggest is going back to Genesis and starting from there, reading as widely as you to build up an understanding of the different perspectives on the text. That gives you a good starting point. Of course it's up to you, but if you don't do that, all you basically have is a bunch of stuff that was pushed at you in whatever church you go to, thrown in with a few references without much context. There are so many good resources on understanding the bible now that there's no good excuse not to properly check it all out.

You can copy this to the new thread, I made one for the atheists to reply.
Eternal Conscious Hell Fire is completely Justified

 

[createdtoworship]

In the Old Testament God said eye for an eye. Eternal Hell is infinite eyes for however many eyes were ruined in that person's life. God is perfect, so how would he accept this? Why wouldn't he just not hand out eternal life to everyone? Is God incapable of that?

Here is a simple test to try and hash out this thread:
Jesus IS the exact representation of his Father....the God of all creation.
Now, a few questions:
Did Jesus....

Kill anyone?
Torture anyone?
Put a curse on anyone?
Blind anyone?
Steal from anyone?

LOL! Yes He did and it withered and died. For that matter--it was Jesus throughout the OT.

Claims like these are pointless. Anybody can sit behind a computer anonymously and claim whatever they want. It’s like a fart in a windstorm.

Nobody cares how long you or anybody else have been doing anything.

Besides, it’s usually the people boasting of their years of experience that could afford to learn a thing or 2.

Claims don’t add weight to an online discussion, because like I said, anybody can claim anything in an anonymous online discussion.

Usually, people will throw out how many years, or whatever other experience they have as a defense mechanism when their education or doctrine is challenged, and are fighting to hold on to their doctrine.

I rarely see someone use it in a constructive and edifying way on here, or anywhere else really - it’s always referenced in the attitude of “Ive studied longer than you, so I’m right”. That’s certainly what has been exemplified in this very thread.

It would be nice to see people put their experience to use rather than telling us about it, because much of the time, we only hear about it, rather than seeing it and gleaning from it.

<D5>Claims don’t add weight to an online discussion, because like I said, anybody can claim anything in an anonymous online discussion.
Usually, people will throw out how many years, or whatever other experience they have as a defense mechanism when their education or doctrine is challenged, and are fighting to hold on to their doctrine.
I rarely see someone use it in a constructive and edifying way on here, or anywhere else really - it’s always referenced in the attitude of “Ive studied longer than you, so I’m right”. That’s certainly what has been exemplified in this very thread.
It would be nice to see people put their experience to use rather than telling us about it, because much of the time, we only hear about it, rather than seeing it and gleaning from it.<D5>
You say "Claims' don't add weight to an online discussion..." Empty accusations certainly don't add any weight to a discussion. I have already explained my post, you attacking the same post again could be considered stalking. If you want to see my experience read some of my posts e.g. Posts 120/121 this thread. Also you might want to review the forum rules. See the 7th section.
Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

I was told atheists could not respond here, so I made another one in the apologetics section:

Eternal Conscious Hell Fire is completely Justified