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Eschatology Minus the New Testament?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Imwrongyourrightyouwin, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. Imwrongyourrightyouwin

    Imwrongyourrightyouwin New Member

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    What would Christian Eschatology look like if you did not include any of the New Testament, but only had the Old Testament to work with?

    Essentially, what were the Eschatology beliefs held by God's people right before Jesus came?

    • If you do know, please fill me in!
    • If you don't know, give an educated guess!
     
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  2. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Probably a lot like today's modern Judaism and evangelical Zionist futurist Christianity, I'd imagine (because those paradigms seem to dismiss a lot of the New Testament anyway).
     
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  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    We can learn from the Old Testament how much we need Grace!

    The last written prophecy before Christ -- from the last chapter of the last book of the Old Testament:

    1“Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.

    2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.

    4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

    5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

    Malachi 4 NIV

    ----
    Surely the day is indeed coming, and it will burn like a furnace!

    (2 Peter 3:10 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.)

    Hallelujah for His great Mercy and Grace through Jesus Christ our Savior, that we be rescued from our wrongs.
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Firstly, God's people were all of Israel, not just the Jews, who were wrongly expecting a conquering Messiah.
    The House of Israel, as many as the sands of the sea; still remains scattered among the nations. Jesus came to save them, Mathew 15:24, and we Christians are the successful result.

    Therefore; do not make the mistake of assuming that Bible Prophecy all applies to the Jews, the prophets always carefully delineate either Judah or Israel and their eventual, not yet happened; rejoining.

    The New Testament confirms and expands the end times story. It all makes a coherent and logical sequence of events.
     
  5. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Eschatology minus the new testament would mean God already returned during the age of the apostles.

    Revelation (a different prophecy than Daniel that ends at the Roman Empire) and the other New Testament texts that speak on the matter.

    Jesus said He was the stone that crushed the feet to powder, the pharisees took this to be spoken of them, later on they said "our only king is caesar"
     
  6. Hammster

    Hammster “Safeism” is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    A Psalm of David.
    The Lord says to my Lord:
    “Sit at My right hand
    Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”
    The Lord will stretch forth Your strong scepter from Zion, saying,
    “Rule in the midst of Your enemies.”
    Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power;
    In holy array, from the womb of the dawn,
    Your youth are to You as the dew.
    The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind,
    “You are a priest forever
    According to the order of Melchizedek.”
    The Lord is at Your right hand;
    He will shatter kings in the day of His wrath.
    He will judge among the nations,
    He will fill them with corpses,
    He will shatter the chief men over a broad country.
    He will drink from the brook by the wayside;
    Therefore He will lift up His head.
    — Psalm 110:1-7
     
  7. jeffweedaman

    jeffweedaman Member

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    Would be Open to personnel interpretation and ending up in a complete mess.

    Did Jesus quote anything from the OT when he spoke about the end of the age happening on the last day?
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Ezekiel 39. From Ezekiel 38 v8 and v16 it takes place in the later days and later years.

    Destruction of Gog's army. Then 7 years. Then Armageddon in v17-20. The Jesus setting his glory among the heathen nations of the world v21. The house of Israel knowing Him as the Lord their God from that day and forward v22.

    22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
     
  9. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Welcome ! There was no such thing as eschatology in the Torah. All recorded events pointed to the Messiah, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Be blessed.
     
  10. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Actually it would fit amillennialism, because they did not see the millennium that the NT church was told about. Amil would equate the first coming as the climactic end, and there would not be a Second Coming period. The Second Coming would be as "a" as the millennium after.
     
  11. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I looked up the definition of "eschatology" just to be sure we're all on the same page (although I don't believe there's truly 'an end to God's kingdom'). This is what Brittanica Encyclopedia has for the definition of "eschatology":

    Eschatology, the doctrine of the last things. It was originally a Western term, referring to Jewish, Christian, and Muslim beliefs about the end of history, the resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgment, the messianic era, and the problem of theodicy (the vindication of God's justice).
    I agree with you, Maria.....all the Bible (OT and NT) points to Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, for Christians.
     
  12. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    But the promise was in the OT.

    This is God's covenant with David (fulfilled in Jesus.....the Messiah from the line of Judah)

    And when your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom.
     
  13. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    That would be full preterism......not amill.
    But good talk. I think this helps to clarify the different beliefs of "end times" and what's even coming to an end... according to the Bible (especially the OT).

    This speaker is the retired Anglican bishop. He represents the amill/historicist view:

     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    We are talking about if Jesus had not been born yet. That would be the end of it all according to Amillennialism. Nothing comes after the Messiah, period.

    If it did, there would be a Millennial Reign. Which is still going to happen because the first coming is also Premillennial.
     
  15. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Actually......I interpret the OP to be asking what eschatology would look like if the NT hadn't been written..... not if Jesus hadn't been born yet. That just shows how people can read the same thing.... with the same amount of information.....and arrive at different conclusions as to how to interpret it.
     
  16. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The NT told us about the birth. The OP did not specify. I assume he meant the Gospels as well, meaning we do not have the birth of Jesus either.

    Essentially, what were the Eschatology beliefs held by God's people right before Jesus came?
     
  17. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Something not being written about doesn't mean it didn't happen.
     
  18. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    We cannot use any Scripture that applies to the first coming period. We can only use that which was written prior to Jesus coming the first time. That is before 5 BC.

    Essentially, what were the Eschatology beliefs held by God's people right before Jesus came?

    The Essenes lived prior to 5 BC.
     
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