Eschatology: Let's start here.

[wandering misfit]

I want to hear every side. Let's talk...... Here's mine; part preterist:

LSB: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”47 And some of those who were standing there, when they heard it, began saying, “This man is calling for Elijah.”48 And immediately one of them ran, and taking a sponge, he filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink.49 But the rest of them were saying, “Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him.”50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.52 And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, “Truly this was God’s Son!”

 

[Tree of Life]

"Preterist" refers to a specific hermeneutical approach to Revelation. It's not really an end-times view.

 

[trophy33]

I am kind of agnostic regarding eschatology (everything is possible), but I see some form of preterism as the most probable and the most in line with the Bible. Not something I would die for, but something I accept as my system now.

But not sure what the topic is, exactly.

 

[wandering misfit]

"Preterist" refers to a specific hermeneutical approach to Revelation. It's not really an end-times view.

Yes, agreed.... I'm Amill. Part Pre is the anvil that hardens iron.

 

[Tree of Life]

Yes, agreed.... I'm Amill. Part Pre is the anvil that hardens iron.

As far as my interpretation of Revelation goes, I'm an iterist. I'm amillenial when it comes to interpreting Revelation 20.

 

[wandering misfit]

I am kind of agnostic regarding eschatology (everything is possible), but I see some form of preterism as the most probable and the most in line with the Bible. Not something I would die for, but something I accept as my system now.

But not sure what the topic is, exactly.

Perhaps, this thread will help you develop your understanding. I hope it develops mine.

 

[trophy33]

Perhaps, this thread will help you develop your understanding. I hope it develops mine.

So, do you believe we live on the new earth, now?

 

[wandering misfit]

So, do you believe we live on the new earth, now?

No

 

[wandering misfit]

We can move that thought out right away, our King said His kindgdom is not here. John 18: Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be delivered over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not from here.”

 

[trophy33]

We can move that thought out right away, our King said His kindgdom is not here. John 18: Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be delivered over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not from here.”

I do not think any preterist believes that the kingdom was there in that time Jesus spoke these words. He was still on the Earth, before the crucifiction.

Also, your translation lacks the very important word - "now", Jesus said - "My kingdom is not of this world, now". I suppose the phrase "as it is" is supposed to represent this word, not sure why.

 

[wandering misfit]

That the translation omitted "now" amplifies the point.

 

[trophy33]

That the translation omitted "now" amplifies the point.

Whose point?

 

[JM]

From the Reformation Study Bible (2016), Introduction to Revelation, after explaining some of the different ways to interpret the book.

"A combination of these views is probably closest to the truth. The imagery in Revelation is multifaceted and is in principle capable of multiple embodiments."

I've moved toward Postmil partial preterism over the last year after really digging into eschatology. The move was made from Amil Historicist.

Post-Mil Only - Resources

Could the idea of "mutliple embodiments" legit?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

I do not think any preterist believes that the kingdom was there in that time Jesus spoke these words. He was still on the Earth, before the crucifiction.

Also, your translation lacks the very important word - "now", Jesus said - "My kingdom is not of this world, now". I suppose the phrase "as it is" is supposed to represent this word, not sure why.

The Son of Man Presented
Dan 7:13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Notice Christ is given power in His ascension, "He came up to the Ancient of Days..." Christ was given, "dominion" and His dominion is everlasting. The Kingdom is now, already and not yet. (see George Ladd)

 

[chad kincham]

I want to hear every side. Let's talk...... Here's mine; part preterist:

LSB: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”47 And some of those who were standing there, when they heard it, began saying, “This man is calling for Elijah.”48 And immediately one of them ran, and taking a sponge, he filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink.49 But the rest of them were saying, “Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him.”50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.52 And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, “Truly this was God’s Son!”

The passage you refer to is well known as to its meaning:

Before Jesus came and atoned for sins, no soul could ascend to heaven, thus the OT saints were held in a place in Sheol called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise.

It was separated by a huge chasm from the torments side known as hell.

When Jesus died He descended to Sheol in the heart of the earth, and preached to those OT saints held in the paradise side.

When He rose He emptied out paradise, and took them with Him, and those are the ones who arose when Jesus rose. Now the souls of the redeemed go straight to heaven.

 

[wandering misfit]

I must have missed something, Matt 27 said nothing about our King going to hell. The passage laid out the power of Christ over death.....saints came out of their tombs, were witnessed and an unbeliever gave a witness. I believe this is the beginning of Eschatology.

 

[wandering misfit]

I really thought this topic would strike a chord, esp in this age.

 

[JM]

I really thought this topic would strike a chord, esp in this age.

I started a deep dive with eschatology April 2020 when I was a laid off due to covid.

 

[wandering misfit]

I've been learning the practice of patience, I'll just have to bump this topic ever so often.

 

[JM]

How much of Revelation and Matthew 24 do you believe happened in 70 ad?