SLStrohkirch said:
Ok, here is a Lutheran point of view on this scripture. I got it from Pastor Will Weedon in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.
They often accuse us of not taking the Scripture literally, specifically in regard to this passage. But what this passage literally says is that only those who are *beheaded* (like St. Paul, whose martyrdom the Church celebrated yesterday) come alive and reign with Christ for the "1000 years." Good news for the Christians who suffer martyrdom in Iraq, I suppose. But I have NEVER heard a dispensationalist say that this refers only to those who are martyred by beheading.
His obvious lack of knowledge of dispenationism is showing here, for those who have been martyred prior to the Tribulation period are raised/raptured and then return WITH Christ at the Second Coming , which brings in the millennial reign. Those that are beheaded by the AC ( the beast) are rasied AFTER the Second Coming.
Franzmann: 4. The futility of Satan's still-impending last attack (the great tribulation of which Jesus had spoken, Matt 24:21) is already foretokened by the succinct description of the fate of the persecuted church in vv. 4-6. During those "thousand years" the existence of the church has before it the key signature of dying, and behold we live (2 Cor. 6:9; cf. Romans 8:37 *In all these things* we are more than conquerors through him who loved us). Those faithful ones who have been judged and condemned in human courts, beheaded for their testimony to Jesus (because they have confessed Him as the acquitting Word of God, 19:13, which silences the voice of the accuser and makes void the claim of Antichrist to their worship and fealty) they are in reality not judged and condemned men but the judges; they are enthroned as judges over all the hostile powers which have apparently triumphed over them. In the court of God the verdict of the world is reversed; there the Spirit pleads their cause and convinces the world concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged (John 16:8,11). John's language recalls the description in Daniel of the judgment executed through the Son of Man upon the four beasts arising from the sea who symbolized the powers hostile to God and His people (Dan. 7:9-14). Those who have lost their lives for Christ's sake find their life (Matt 10:39); they come to life and reign with Christ (cf. John 12:26).
More error on his part about the Dispensationist view. Those that go Against Christ at the Second Coming are dead and do not ienter the millennial reign. It is only thosewho belonged to the nations that went against Christ who survive...but then they are subject to 'the sheep and goat judgment.'
And it is Christ who reigns, and we are subject to Him, though we reign with Him.
"In the court of God the verdict of the world is reversed; there the Spirit pleads their cause and convinces the world concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged (John 16:8,11)."
He is taking this verse out of context. It is NOW that the Spirit is convicting the world of sin. Satan was thrown down at the cross and resurrection of Christ, for he no longer has the power of death.
Hbr 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,Hbr 2:15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
John 16:8, 11 is not about the millennial reign, but about now.
5. Christ promise, I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live. (John 11:25) and He holds to His word. For those who believe in Him there is a first resurrection, a being-raised to a life not canceled out by mens dying, a life like that of the risen Christs, no longer exposed to death (cf. Roman 6:9). Those who have refused to find resurrection and life in Christ will not share in this first resurrection during the 1,000 years.
And this agrees with dispensationism, and the view that the 'first resurrection' is a resurrection to life.
Millennial Hope:
The three verses of Rev. 20:4-6 are actually the only basis for what has come to be known as millennialism (a term derived from the Latin for thousand years) or chiliasm (from the Greek word for thousand), namely the expectation (in a variety of forms) Òthat before the resurrection of the dead, saints and godly men will possess and worldly kingdom and annihilate all the godless (AC XVII).
I don't think your friend understands premillennialism in the least.
Premillennialism (chilaism) beleives that Christ returns, defeated in the AC and false prophet and their armies and reigns in vicotiry in a literal earthly reign as described in Zechariah 14. Psalm 24 is also about the reign, and the later part of Psalm 22:
Psa 22:23 You who fear the LORD, praise Him; All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, And stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of Israel.
Psa 22:24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.
Psa 22:25 From You {comes} my praise in the great assembly; I shall pay my vows before those who fear Him.
Psa 22:26 The afflicted will eat and be satisfied; Those who seek Him will praise the LORD. Let your heart live forever!
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S And He rules over the nations.
Psa 22:29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship, All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.
Psa 22:30 Posterity will serve Him; It will be told of the Lord to the {coming} generation.
Psa 22:31 They will come and will declare His righteousness To a people who will be born, that He has performed {it.}
And if you study the Bible instead of listening to preachers, you will see that it is GOD who destroys the wicked - dispensationsim agrees with this.
The words of our Lord, in all other respects in strong agreement with the witness of the Revelation to John, say nothing of a triumphant interregnum of Christ and His own before His final return to judge the quick and the dead and to gather His elect into glory. With this the rest of the NT witnesses agree. The whole NT witness is not only silent as regards a millennium; rather, it excludes the idea of a millennium: according to it, the church will remain the church hidden under the cross to the very end, and he who endure to the end will be saved (Matt 10:22)
The earthly reign is referred to in the OT, the apostles expected that Christ would start an earthly reign in Acts 1, and the amount of time of the reign was not given UNTIL 95-96 AD, to John.
Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for
a thousand years;
Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until
the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I {saw} the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a
thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until
the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Now when God said that the Isrealites would wander 40 yers, did He mean 40 years? When God gave the prophecy of captivity for 70 years, didn't he mean 70 years? 1000 is no different. It was given by God.
Has Satan been ineffective for the last 2000 years? He is shut in the abyss during the millennium....has he been inactive in the 2000 years?
Those who cherish and foster the millennial hope (and these have from of old included great and good men) need to ask themselves whether the desire to have and enjoy a visible victory before the final victory of the Crucified is not a subtle and unconscious form of objection to the Crucified who unseals the scroll taken from the hand of God; He in His wisdom and power keeps the church hidden under the cross, and He has promised to be with His church, under the cross, to the close of the age. (Matt 28:20)
Those who deny the prophecy of the millennial reign need to ask themselves why they question God. Why don't they listen to the following:
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
