Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Dave L]

Isa 2
Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war.

Miicah 4
And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths " For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.

Jerimi 3
"At that time they will call Jerusalem 'The Throne of the LORD,' and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

Dan 2
In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

Mark
Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David; Hosanna in the highest!"

Just a few , there are many more scriptures describing that Jesus will be KING on earth - but you can have your fallacy , have fun being deceived by it

Jesus IS and has always been KING
& will ALWAYS Be King
He will have a Kingdom on earth as well

This is happening now and will continue in the New Heaven and earth. But you are trying to cram it into a sickness and death laden 1000 years.

 

[seventysevens]

This is happening now and will continue in the New Heaven and earth. But you are trying to cram it into a sickness and death laden 1000 years.

Obviously you need to take a class of reading and comprehensions skills , it WILL happen on this present earth when Jesus returns and then will continue into the New earth and for eternity , no one is cramming anything into anything - that is just your own lack of understanding , just as you said the Pharisees believed Jesus to be king , you should really take some time to learn the truth

 

[Dave L]

Obviously you need to take a class of reading and comprehensions skills , it WILL happen on this present earth when Jesus returns and then will continue into the New earth and for eternity , no one is cramming anything into anything - that is just your own lack of understanding , just as you said the Pharisees believed Jesus to be king , you should really take some time to learn the truth

You and the Pharisees look for the same kingdom, the one Jesus said comes without observation. If it comes without observation, you will never see it physically. If you are born again, you have all it takes to see it if you know where to look. But again, unless you are born again you cannot see it.

 

[seventysevens]

You and the Pharisees look for the same kingdom, the one Jesus said comes without observation. If it comes without observation, you will never see it physically. If you are born again, you have all it takes to see it if you know where to look. But again, unless you are born again you cannot see it.

Again and again you totally misunderstand , You may never see it - but those who are not blinded will see it , your posts exemplifies and amplifies the saying "none so blind as those who refuse/choose not to see"

 

[Dave L]

Again and again you totally misunderstand , You may never see it - but those who are not blinded will see it , your posts exemplifies and amplifies the saying "none so blind as those who choose not to see"

If you are born again, you can see the kingdom now. It's been here since Pentecost.

 

[Davy]

But flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God/Heaven.

And that's very correct, as Apostle Paul was speaking about us, and our future change to the "spiritual body". It didn't mean the earth had to become some spiritual la la floating ether cloud.

 

[Dave L]

And that's very correct, as Apostle Paul was speaking about us, and our future change to the "spiritual body". It didn't mean the earth had to become some spiritual la la floating ether cloud.

Whoever is born again has eternal life (in the kingdom). Both now and forever.

 

[claninja]

And that's very correct, as Apostle Paul was speaking about us, and our future change to the "spiritual body". It didn't mean the earth had to become some spiritual la la floating ether cloud.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. But do we regard those born again according to the flesh? or are they of the spirit now?

John 3:5-6 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

 

[Davy]

Jesus proved the kingdom was here in the first century. “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
And the resurrection on the last day is the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ of all time). Physical kingdom after the resurrection?

“Now this is what I am saying, brothers and sisters: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen, “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”” (1 Corinthians 15:50–54)

Our Lord Jesus did bring His kingdom, that is, His spiritual kingdom only, which is today His Church on earth. But He will have a literal physical kingdom on earth in the future, as all the prophets testify. That is why He told the Pharisees that His kingdom is not of this world, meaning this present world, as the subject there was a literal physical kingdom, not a spiritual one.

 

[Dave L]

Our Lord Jesus did bring His kingdom, that is, His spiritual kingdom only, which is today His Church on earth. But He will have a literal physical kingdom on earth in the future, as all the prophets testify. That is why He told the Pharisees that His kingdom is not of this world, meaning this present world, as the subject there was a literal physical kingdom, not a spiritual one.

This is not true. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. And the world to come has no room for a carnal physical millennium where sin and death continue. His kingdom is forever, not just 1000 years.

 

[Davy]

We can bat this around some more if you like. But you still have the problem of Flesh and Blood not inheriting the Millennium (kingdom of God/heaven). And glorified saints attacking glorified saints at the end of the "millennium when Satan is loosed. This is a huge problem that takes care of all your other claims.

Jesus showed in John 5:28-29 that both the resurrection of the just, and the resurrection of damnation, will occur on the day of His coming. That means the wicked dead are actually in resurrected bodies when Christ's Millennium reign begins. Many forget the Isaiah 25 Scripture I quoted about death being swallowed up in that time, applied to all.

Many also don't study 1 Cor.15 deep enough, because Paul showed there two conditions must be met to be given eternal Life through Christ. Our flesh must be change to the body of incorruption, and our "this mortal" (soul) must be made immortal. The wicked will have their flesh changed to the body of incorruption also, but their souls will still be in a liable to die state, which is what still being subject to the "second death" is about. One of the false assumptions about body of incorruption is that it applies only to those in Christ Jesus, when it is simply the body of the world to come, and a body like the angels, what Paul called the "image of the heavenly". As we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly he said. The wicked were born with the image of the earthy too.
'

 

[Dave L]

Jesus showed in John 5:28-29 that both the resurrection of the just, and the resurrection of damnation, will occur on the day of His coming. That means the wicked dead are actually in resurrected bodies when Christ's Millennium reign begins. Many forget the Isaiah 25 Scripture I quoted about death being swallowed up in that time, applied to all.

Many also don't study 1 Cor.15 deep enough, because Paul showed there two conditions must be met to be given eternal Life through Christ. Our flesh must be change to the body of incorruption, and our "this mortal" (soul) must be made immortal. The wicked will have their flesh changed to the body of incorruption also, but their souls will still be in a liable to die state, which is what still being subject to the "second death" is about. One of the false assumptions about body of incorruption is that it applies only to those in Christ Jesus, when it is simply the body of the world to come, and a body like the angels, what Paul called the "image of the heavenly". As we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly he said. The wicked were born with the image of the earthy too.
'

Revelation 20 places the resurrection of the wicked after the millennium.

 

[Davy]

Only glorified resurrected and raptured saints occupy the millennium. Because flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom (the Millennium). The rest of the dead did not live until after it. But Satan is released near the end and rallies gog & magog (most of the glorified saints) to attack the rest of the saints. Ridiculous? Yes! But this is what you believe if pressed to the logical conclusion.

That is illogical since Rev.2 shows the saints will reign with Jesus over the nations with "a rod of iron". That means they reign over the unsaved of the nations, not other saints. Furthermore, those nations of unsaved still exist when Satan is loosed to test them.

More thorough Bible study reveals what Christ's saints will be doing during the 1,000. They will be teaching The Word of God to the unsaved of the nations. It is written that those who erred in spirit will come to understanding, and those who murmured will learn doctrine (Isa.29). Revelation 22:14-15 shows the wicked existing outside the gates of the beloved city during Christ's Millennium reign, only the saints having right to go inside where the tree of life is (parallels Ezek.44 & 47).

 

[claninja]

They will be teaching The Word of God to the unsaved of the nations.

Aren’t Christians doing this now?

 

[Dave L]

That is illogical since Rev.2 shows the saints will reign with Jesus over the nations with "a rod of iron". That means they reign over the unsaved of the nations, not other saints. Furthermore, those nations of unsaved still exist when Satan is loosed to test them.

More thorough Bible study reveals what Christ's saints will be doing during the 1,000. They will be teaching The Word of God to the unsaved of the nations. It is written that those who erred in spirit will come to understanding, and those who murmured will learn doctrine (Isa.29). Revelation 22:14-15 shows the wicked existing outside the gates of the beloved city during Christ's Millennium reign, only the saints having right to go inside where the tree of life is (parallels Ezek.44 & 47).

No, it shows how your theory falls apart. Like I said, only saints in glorified bodies occupy the Revelation 20 presentation of the 1000 years. Flesh and blood cannot exist there. So Jesus must rule glorified saints with a rod of iron. And Satan later rally them against other saints in glorified bodies when he is loosed. This of course is ridiculous but it is where Dispensationalism and Premillennialism leads.

 

[Davy]

Revelation 20 places the resurrection of the wicked after the millennium.

John 5:28-29 shows the wicked dead raised on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming.

The seeming conflict is with not understanding about the idea of the 'dead' in Rev.20 after God's consuming fire burns up all flesh on this earth on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming (see 2 Peter 3:10-12). The dead not living again of Rev.20:5 is about those of the nations who come to Jesus during the Millennium. That's why at the GWT Judgment the books are opened to see if any more of the saved are written, showing there will be another resurrection like the 'first resurrection' to occur at the GWT Judgment, and that type of resurrection is one unto eternal Life in Jesus Christ. The way that resurrection will be done is those who come to Jesus then will have souls put on immortality. They will already be in a body of incorruption, but still with a liable to perish soul. Just as our souls are made a new creature by believing on Jesus during this world, that will occur for those during the Millennium.

 

[Dave L]

John 5:28-29 shows the wicked dead raised on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming.

The seeming conflict is with not understanding about the idea of the 'dead' in Rev.20 after God's consuming fire burns up all flesh on this earth on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming (see 2 Peter 3:10-12). The dead not living again of Rev.20:5 is about those of the nations who come to Jesus during the Millennium. That's why at the GWT Judgment the books are opened to see if any more of the saved are written, showing there will be another resurrection like the 'first resurrection' to occur at the GWT Judgment, and that type of resurrection is one unto eternal Life in Jesus Christ.

Both the righteous and wicked dead come to life on the last day. I'm pointing out how ridiculous Dispensationalism and Premillennialism is if put to the test against Revelation 20.

 

[Davy]

Aren’t Christians doing this now?

Yes, and it's not going to stop during Christ's Millennium reign. One of the duties of the OT priest was to teach God's Word to the people. That is what Isaiah 29 is pointing to.

 

[Davy]

No, it shows how your theory falls apart. Like I said, only saints in glorified bodies occupy the Revelation 20 presentation of the 1000 years. Flesh and blood cannot exist there. So Jesus must rule glorified saints with a rod of iron. And Satan later rally them against other saints in glorified bodies when he is loosed. This of course is ridiculous but it is where Dispensationalism and Premillennialism leads.

Then you have a lot of study to do back in the Old Testament prophets, because they testify against any such idea as that. Likewise, not Jesus nor any of the Apostles ever taught such an idea as yours either.

 

[Davy]

Both the righteous and wicked dead come to life on the last day. I'm pointing out how ridiculous Dispensationalism and Premillennialism is if put to the test against Revelation 20.

I'm not a Dispensationalist, so no changing the subject please just to escape your lack of Biblical support for your theory.

John 5:28-29, which you have yet to admit proves the resurrection of damnation also happens on the day of Jesus' coming, reveals who the nations are which Jesus and His elect will reign over with the "rod of iron", during His future Millennium reign.

Today, His Kingdom is not yet manifest on earth in the literal sense, but only in the spiritual, as Satan is still free to roam the earth with wickedness not having stopped yet. When Jesus returns, and Satan locked in his pit prison, wickedness on this earth will have stopped.