Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Riberra]

The person is the Antichrist for the initial years of the 7 years. He eventually is no long the Antichrist, but will have become the beast.

You can't prove any of the seals fulfilled, it is impossible, because it is not factual that history has followed the specific order of the seals - but has bounced around.

The four riders runs at the same time ....they represent events happening upon the Earth since Jesus have ascended in Heaven in the First Century.
1-The Gospel of Jesus being preached upon the earth
2-The Wars
3-The Famines
4-A War affecting 1/4 of the surface of the Earth ....WW1 and WW2 fulfilled that in the 20TH CENTURY

The 5Th Seal is about the Christians Martyrs ...still occuring as we speak.

Why did you skip the 6th seal?
Are you trying to ignore it?

The opening of the 6Th Seal is the next event at the agenda in a still unknown time in the future-----We can thanks God that he delay the opening of the 6 Th Seal ....Do you know that the Book of Revelation tell us that a 7TH SEAL will be opened after the 6TH Seal events ?

Let see if you are able to find the passage about the opening of the 7 Th SEAl.

 

[BABerean2]

The four riders are i

The opening of the 6Th Seal is the next event at the agenda -----We can thanks God that he delay the opening of the 6 Th Seal ....Do you know that a 7TH SEAL will be opened after the 6TH Seal events ?

The 6th seal, and the 7th seal were opened by Christ during the first century, when He revealed future events to John.

Those events have not occurred yet.

.

 

[Riberra]

The 6th seal, and the 7th seal were opened by Christ during the first century,

Not exactly.

Those events have not occurred yet

That is right -obviously, the events of the 6 TH Seal and the 7 TH Seal have not happened yet -....John SAW in a VISION WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN JESUS WILL OPEN THE 6 TH AND 7 TH SEAL ...

 

[Douggg]

The four riders runs at the same time ....they represent events happening upon the Earth since Jesus have ascended in Heaven in the First Century.
1-The Gospel of Jesus being preached upon the earth
2-The Wars
3-The Famines
4-A War affecting 1/4 of the surface of the Earth ....WW1 and WW2 fulfilled that in the 20TH CENTURY

The 5Th Seal is about the Christians Martyrs ...still occuring as we speak.

One appears, then as the next seal is opened another horse and rider appears, the red horse; then next seal, the black horse; then the next seal,the pale horse ridden by Death, followed by Hell.

The conditions on the earth get progressive worse during the 7 years. No age of enlightenment, no reformation, no renaissance era, no industrial revolution, just worse, worse, and worse.

The horsemen are not a review of the past two thousand years of history. They reflect the progressive destruction of the human race on earth during the seven years - which if not for Jesus coming to stop it no flesh would survive.

 

[Riberra]

One appears, then as the next seal is opened another horse and rider appears, the red horse; then next seal, the black horse; then the next seal,the pale horse ridden by Death, followed by Hell.

The horsemen are not a review of the past two thousand years of history.

They are described with their specific action .. one after the other as the Four Seals are opened [Revelation 6:1-8] and they run side by side....

The Wars [Red Horse] are the major causes of Famines [Black Horse] and Death [Pale Horse] ....they are still running side by side since 2,000 years ,do you deny that ?

-The rider on the White Horse Represent JESUS and THE GOSPEL BEING PREACHED UPON [CONQUERING]THE WHOLE EARTH DURING THE SAME 2,000 years of history,Do you deny that ?

The conditions on the earth get progressive worse during the 7 years.

The 6 Trumpets Plagues of Revelation 8 and Revelation 9 tell us what are the things who will happen BEFORE THE 42 Months Reign of The Beast...

No age of enlightenment, no reformation, no renaissance era, no industrial revolution, just worse, worse, and worse.

Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 tell us that CRAFTS will prosper during the 42 months [3 1/2 years] Reign of the Little Horn /Beast ...Revelation 17 and Revelation 18 tell us at which point there will be prosperity and rich commercial activity for all those who will take the mark and who will worship the Beast and his image....Revelation 18 tell us that people will Lament and Bewail when Babylon the Great will be destroyed.

 

[BABerean2]

Not exactly.

That is right -obviously, the events of the 6 TH Seal and the 7 TH Seal have not happened yet -....John SAW in a VISION WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN JESUS WILL OPEN THE 6 TH AND 7 TH SEAL ...

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

.

 

[Riberra]

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The Events of the 6TH Seal have obviously not happened yet ....so the 6Th SEAL have not BEEN OPENED YET...ONLY IN JOHN'S VISION WE HAVE A GLIMPSE ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE 6TH SEAL WILL BE OPENED IN ITS APPOINTED TIME.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

....
Oh I forget Revelation 6:15-17 tell us about the SURVIVORS In TOTAL PANIC AND FEARS WHO HAVE SURVIVED THE 6TH SEAL EVENTS....

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

FOR THE SECOND TIME Because you seem to have missed it:

DO YOU KNOW THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION TELL US THAT A 7TH SEAL WILL BE OPENED AFTER THE EVENTS OF THE 6TH SEAL ....ARE YOU ABLE TO FIND THE PASSAGE IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION ABOUT THE OPENING OF THE 7TH SEAL ?If so you will be able to tell us what the 7Th SEAL IS ABOUT.

 

[BABerean2]

The Events of the 6TH Seal have obviously not happened yet ....so the 6Th SEAL have not BEEN OPENED YET...ONLY IN JOHN'S VISION WE HAVE A GLIMPSE ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE 6TH SEAL WILL BE OPENED IN ITS APPOINTED TIME.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

....
Oh I forget Revelation 6:15-17 tell us about the SURVIVORS In TOTAL PANIC AND FEARS WHO HAVE SURVIVED THE 6TH SEAL EVENTS....

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

FOR THE SECOND TIME Because you seem to have missed it:

DO YOU KNOW THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION TELL US THAT A 7TH SEAL WILL BE OPENED AFTER THE EVENTS OF THE 6TH SEAL ....ARE YOU ABLE TO FIND THE PASSAGE IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION ABOUT THE OPENING OF THE 7TH SEAL ?If so you will be able to tell us what the 7Th SEAL IS ABOUT.

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. (Past tense during the first century.)
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. (Past tense during the first century.)

John is dead now.

Do you think John is going to see this during the future, or did he see it as Christ removed the seal and showed it to him?

.

 

[Riberra]

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. (Past tense during the first century.)
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. (Past tense during the first century.)

John is dead now.

Do you think John is going to see this during the future, or did he see it as Christ removed the seal and showed it to him?

John SAW IN A VISION THAT HE RECEIVED WHILE HE WAS ALIVE IN 90 AD [when he wrote the Book of Revelation] what will happen when Jesus will open the 6 TH SEAL ...What will happen when Jesus will open the 7 Th Seal...The description that JOHN give tell us that the events of the 6Th Seal and the events of the 7Th SEAL are still yet to come in a still unknown time in the Future.

The description that John give about the opening of the first Four Seals plus the description of the 5TH Seal [Revelation 6:1-11] refers to the 2,000 years of history since Jesus have ascended to Heaven to this day.

They are described with their specific action .. one after the other as the Four Seals are opened [Revelation 6:1-8] and they run side by side....

The Wars [Red Horse] are the major causes of Famines [Black Horse] and Death [Pale Horse] ....they are still running side by side since 2,000 years ,do you deny that ?

-The rider on the White Horse Represent JESUS and THE GOSPEL BEING PREACHED UPON [CONQUERING]THE WHOLE EARTH DURING THE SAME 2,000 years of history,Do you deny that ?

The 5 Th Seal [Revelation 6:9-11] represent the Christians Martyrs since Stephen and The Apostles and the numbers of Christians Martyrs is still growing [70 Millions and growing every years] .....and this is still occuring as we speak in Muslim Countries, do you deny that ?

 

[BABerean2]

John SAW IN A VISION THAT HE RECEIVED WHILE HE WAS ALIVE IN 90 AD [when he wrote the Book of Revelation] what will happen when Jesus will open the 6 TH SEAL ..

John saw the vision after Christ opened the seal.
That is what the text says.
Therefore, the seals were opened by Christ, during the first century.

The Book of Revelation is the "revealing" by Christ.

The text does not say that John will see something in the future.


.

 

[Riberra]

John saw the vision after Christ opened the seal.
That is what the text says.
Therefore, the seals were opened by Christ, during the first century.

The Book of Revelation is the "revealing" by Christ.

The text does not say that John will see something in the future.


.

- Edited for clarity some text added -**

And i never said that John ''wiil see'' something in the future....I said that John SAW the future in a series of VISION....but remember that the things that John saw in the first Five Seals were future to him [Revelation 6:1-11] **[2,000 Years of history of WARS [RED HORSE]- CAUSING FAMINES [BLACK Horse] AND CAUSING DEATH [PALE Horse] and Christians Martyrs [70 millions] have occured and continue ].... John was already part of the MARTYRS ...John the apostle was called the living Martyr...Jesus have keep John alive[ after that John have been placed in boiling oil] for writing the Book of Revelation.

The EVENTS of the 6TH SEAL have obviously NOT HAPPENED YET.... The opening of the 6TH Seal is the next event at the agenda ....And the 7TH SEAL [Revelation 8]will be opened after...

Those saying that the martyrs of the 5TH Seal[Revelation 6:9-11] represent the Christians who will be martyred during the 42 months Reign of the Beast ....are totally wrong.
The proof is that in Revelation 15:1-2 John saw in Heaven -standing by the sea of glass- those who will be beheaded [put to death] during the 42 months reign of the Beast because they will refuse to worship the beast and who will refuse to take the mark.
Revelation 15:1-2
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having seven plagues, [which are] the last, for in them is finished the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.

IMHO from the 2 Billions Christians - 99.9 % - will chose to take the mark and worship the Beast and his image [Revelation 13] rather than suffering and be beheaded.

The proof is that they have all their own End Times scenario [Pre-Trib Rapture the most popular] or for others [''all of that is just symbolism''] into which they think they can avoid the 42 months reign of the Beast [if they are alive when this happen] .By chance we are not close to that time --Because The 6Th Seal Events[Revelation 6:12-17] who will set the scene for the beginning of the Great Tribulation [Revelation 8 through Revelation 18] have not happened yet .

Do not reply ...
That is my last post on the subject... So far so good for everyone .... Thanks God for His decision to delay the Beginning of the Great Tribulation....
Revelation 6:12-17 through Revelation 18.

 

[BABerean2]

The EVENTS of the 6TH SEAL have obviously NOT HAPPENED YET.... The opening of the 6TH Seal is the next event at the agenda ....

The events revealed when Christ removed the 6th seal during the first century, is the last event on the agenda, since it is the Second Coming of Christ.

We have the sun darkened, and the moon changing its brightness, and the stars falling from heaven to the earth, and those in fear of the Lamb, just as we do in the Olivet Discourse, at the Second Coming of Christ.

How many times in the history of the universe do you think we are going to have those three signs in the sun, moon, and stars, all at the same time?

.

 

[Riberra]

The events revealed when Christ removed the 6th seal during the first century, is the last event on the agenda, since it is the Second Coming of Christ.

Look at your Bible ...Revelation 8 is about the 7TH SEAL who will be opened AFTER THE 6TH SEAL [Revelation 6:12-17].
If you want to believe that the World End After the 6Th Seal [GO FOR IT ].

John tell us about PEOPLE WHO WILL STILL BE ALIVE AFTER the 6Th Seal events, they are in total panic and fears but they are ALIVE.
Revelation 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the chief captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman and freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The 6th seal, and the 7th seal were opened by Christ during the first century, when He revealed future events to John.
Those events have not occurred yet.
.

Hello BAB.
My bro Josephus appears to say those events were indeed fulfilled in the 1st century during the Jewish Was up to 70 ad........

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>

JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

HISTORICAL
SIGNIFICANCE

"During the Middle Ages, Josephus was the most widely read ancient author in Europe.. Josephus' literary influence had no equals, with the sole exception of the Bible."

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish priest and Pharisee, was put in command of the national resistance in Galilee at the time of Israel's revolt against Rome. When he was captured at Jotapata; his life was spared upon his prediction to rival Vespasian, that the Roman general would soon become emperor. Upon the fulfillment of this prophecy shortly thereafter, he was commissioned to provide his captors with a history of the Jewish people, although he initially wrote a history of the Roman-Jewish war suited for both a Roman and a Jewish audience. His works, disputed though they may be regarding accuracy, are an indispensable source on the history of Roman Judea.

=========================
Was Flavius Josephus familiar with the Apocalypse of John?


John's Revelation - “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.” (16:18)

Josephus - “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake.
These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5)

John's Revelation - "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” (16:19)

Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Josephus - “Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness;” (5:6:3)
==================
IBSS - The Bible - Revelation
100 lb. Hailstones

Revelation 16:21 tells how huge hailstones fell from heaven weighing a talent which is about 100 pounds. Josephus describes 100 lb. white stones coming from Roman catapults down on the Jews in Jerusalem (Jewish Wars, Book 5.6.3).

https://www.kennethgentry.com/catalog/apocalypse.htm

The prophecy of the talent weight hailstones has found a similar fulfillment in the siege of Jerusalem, according to the preterist. Josephus states of the catapults of the Roman tenth legion: "the stones that were cast, were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further.... As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was a white color" (Wars 5:6:3). These stones not only had the weight required by John, but were the same color as hail.
The Babylon of Revelation is Referring to Jerusalem

Great hail weighing one talent is said to fall upon men there (Revelation 16:21).
Josephus tells of the Roman catapults being used to cast whitewashed boulders over the walls of Jerusalem and they each weighed one talent.

 

[BABerean2]

Hello BAB.
My bro Josephus appears to say those events were indeed fulfilled in the 1st century during the Jewish Was up to 70 ad........

If Josephus was not a follower of Christ, is he our "bro"?

Do you think everything in the Book of Revelation was fulfilled during 70 AD, like the Full-Preterists believe?

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If Josephus was not a follower of Christ, is he our "bro"?
Do you think everything in the Book of Revelation was fulfilled during 70 AD, like the Full-Preterists believe?
.

I already view 1st century Jerusalem in Revelation and apparently, so did Josephus

Revelation 16:21 "..great HAIL fell on men as a talent weight.." Josephus

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Josephus - “Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness;” (5:6:3)
==================
A few commentaries:

http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/jwar04.html
Now working.........
After this success, John wanted to launch a preemptive strike at the Romans, who were building new camps to the west of the city: one for the legions XII Fulminata and XV Apollinaris and one for legion V Macedonica. But John was afraid that Simon would close the city gates behind his back, and did not assail the new camps. As a consequence, the legions were able to build their redoubts almost without any trouble; soon, their catapults started to throw heavy stones into the city. Under cover of this artillery fire, the Roman soldiers could start to bash the northern wall with their battering-rams.


IBSS - The Bible - Revelation
100 lb. Hailstones

Revelation 16:21 tells how huge hailstones fell from heaven weighing a talent which is about 100 pounds. Josephus describes 100 lb. white stones coming from Roman catapults down on the Jews in Jerusalem (Jewish Wars, Book 5.6.3).

https://www.kennethgentry.com/catalog/apocalypse.htm

The prophecy of the talent weight hailstones has found a similar fulfillment in the siege of Jerusalem, according to the preterist. Josephus states of the catapults of the Roman tenth legion: "the stones that were cast, were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further.... As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was a white color" (Wars 5:6:3). These stones not only had the weight required by John, but were the same color as hail.
================================
Btw, what is your view on EUSEBIUS

Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

THE PROOF OF THE GOSPEL BEING THE DEMONSTRATIO EVANGELICA
OF

EUSEBIUS OF CAESAREA
(A.D. 312)
PERHAPS THE BOOK THAT MOST INFLUENCED THE CONVERSION OF CONSTANTINE AND THE ROMAN EMPIRE TO CHRISTIANITY
313 - The Year of Constantine's Cooperation

"The Holy Scriptures foretell that there will be unmistakable signs of the Coming of Christ.

Now there were among the Hebrews three outstanding offices of dignity, which made the nation famous, firstly the kingship, secondly that of prophet, and lastly the high priesthood.
The prophecies said that the abolition and complete destruction of all these three together would be the sign of the (b) presence of the Christ.
And that the proofs that the times had come, would lie in the ceasing of the Mosaic worship, the desolation of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the subjection of the whole Jewish race to its enemies.

The holy oracles foretold that all these changes, which had (c) not been made in the days of the prophets of old, would take place at the coming of the Christ, which I will presently shew to have been fulfilled as never before in accordance with the predictions."

 

[BABerean2]

I already view 1st century Jerusalem in Revelation and apparently, so did Josephus

Revelation 16:21 "..great HAIL fell on men as a talent weight.." Josephus

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Exo_9:25 And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.

Did the Romans cast giant hail stones, or rocks, during 70 AD.

See if you can find somebody who said they looked like hailstones, to make your form of preterism work.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Douggg said: ↑
No, not exact, because historically the events described in Matthew 24:6-7 have not taken place in order like the events in the seals are. Which shows the seal events to pertain to a specific time period, the 7 years.

Riberra said: ↑
Your own interpretation of the first Five Seals that you want to fit with your interpretation that the Rider of the white Horse is the Antichrist...
I have proved with Scripture in Post 1552 that the first 5 seal represent exactly what Jesus said will happen in Matthew 24:6-14 including the martyrs of the 5 Th Seal...whose numbers is cited to grown since Stephen to became a large crowd WEARING WHITE ROBES to large to number ...

Douggg said: ↑
The person is the Antichrist for the initial years of the 7 years. He eventually is no long the Antichrist, but will have become the beast.

You can't prove any of the seals fulfilled, it is impossible, because it is not factual that history has followed the specific order of the seals - but has bounced around.

Riberra said: ↑
The four riders are i

The opening of the 6Th Seal is the next event at the agenda -----We can thanks God that he delay the opening of the 6 Th Seal ....Do you know that a 7TH SEAL will be opened after the 6TH Seal events ?

BABerean2 said: ↑
The 6th seal, and the 7th seal were opened by Christ during the first century, when He revealed future events to John.
Those events have not occurred yet.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Hello BAB.
My bro Josephus appears to say those events were indeed fulfilled in the 1st century during the Jewish Was up to 70 ad........

Do you think everything in the Book of Revelation was fulfilled during 70 AD, like the Full-Preterists believe?
.

Exo_9:25 And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.
.

Hello BAB......please post that on my "Hail" thread.........

Revelation 16:21 "..great HAIL fell on men as a talent weight.." Josephus

 

[mkgal1]

Do you think everything in the Book of Revelation was fulfilled during 70 AD, like the Full-Preterists believe?

It is not only full preterists that believe all seven seals have been opened. That's not the distinction between Orthodox and unorthodox preterism. Full preterists do not believe in a future bodily resurrection or any future coming of Christ.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Douggg said: ↑
No, not exact, because historically the events described in Matthew 24:6-7 have not taken place in order like the events in the seals are. Which shows the seal events to pertain to a specific time period, the 7 years.

Riberra said: ↑
Your own interpretation of the first Five Seals that you want to fit with your interpretation that the Rider of the white Horse is the Antichrist...
I have proved with Scripture in Post 1552 that the first 5 seal represent exactly what Jesus said will happen in Matthew 24:6-14 including the martyrs of the 5 Th Seal...whose numbers is cited to grown since Stephen to became a large crowd WEARING WHITE ROBES to large to number ...

Douggg said: ↑
The person is the Antichrist for the initial years of the 7 years. He eventually is no long the Antichrist, but will have become the beast.

You can't prove any of the seals fulfilled, it is impossible, because it is not factual that history has followed the specific order of the seals - but has bounced around.

....Do you know that the Book of Revelation tell us that a 7TH SEAL will be opened after the 6TH Seal events ?
Let see if you are able to find the passage about the opening of the 7 Th SEAl.

Ummm, a silence in the heaven then the 7 Trumpets

The SEVEN SEALS of Revelation study

The First Seal: Rider on a White Horse

Revelation 6:
1 And I saw when the Lambkin opens up one out of the seven Seals and I hear one out of the four Living Ones saying as sound of thunder "be coming!
2 And I looked and behold! a white Horse, and the One sitting on it is having a bow and there was given to Him a crown, and He came forth conquering and that He should be conquering.
The Second Seal: War
3 And when It opens up the second Seal, I hear the second Living One saying " be coming"! 4 And came forth another Horse,fiery-red and to Him sitting on it was giving to be taking the Peace out of the land, and that one another they should be slaying. And there was given to Him a great Sword.
The Third Seal: Famine
5 And when It opens up the third Seal, I hear of the third Living One saying "be coming! And I looked and behold! a black Horse and Him sitting on it having a Yoke/Balance in His hand.
6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four Living Ones saying, "A measure of wheat for a denary and three measures of barley for a denary, and the oil and the wine no thou should be injuring".
The Fourth Seal: Death
7 And when It opens up the fourth Seal, I hear a voice of the fourth Living One saying "be coming!’"
8 And I looked and behold! a pale Horse and Him sitting on it, a name to him the Death and the Hades followed Him.
And was given to them authority over the fourth of the land, to kill in sword, and in famine and in death and by the beasts of the land.
The Fifth Seal: Martyrs under the Altar
9 And when It opens up the fifth Seal, I saw under the Altar the souls of Those slaughtered because of the word of the GOD, and because of the Testimony which they held.
10 And They cry a great voice saying "till when O Master/Owner, the Holy and the True, not Thou are judging and and avenging Our blood out of those dwelling upon the land?"
11 And was given to each of Them a White Robe and was declared to Them that they should be resting still little time, till should be fulfilling also their fellow bondservants and their brethren, those being about to being killed as also they.
The Sixth Seal: Sun, Moon and Stars
12 And I saw when It opens up the sixth Seal and became a great earthquake and the Sun became black as hairy sackcloth, and the whole Moon became as blood, 13 and the Stars of the heaven fall to the land, as a fig-tree casting it's shriveled figs by a great wind being shaken.
14 And the heaven coils as a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island out of their places were moved. 15 And the Kings of the land, and the greatest, and the rich, and the Chiefs of thousands, and the strong and every slave and every free one, hide themselves into the caves and into the rocks of the mountains.
16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of Him sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Lambkin.
17 That came the Day, the great, of Their wrath and who is able to stand?
The Seventh Seal: Silence in heaven half hour

Revelation 8
1 And when It opens up the seventh Seal,
became a hush in the heaven as half hour.
2 And I saw the seven Messengers who before the GOD have stood and were given to them seven Trumpets.
3 and another Messenger came and stood at the Altar, having a golden Censer. And was given to Him many incenses, that He shall be imparting to the prayers of all the Saints on the golden Altar before the Throne. 4 And ascended the smoke of the incenses to the prayers of the Saints out of hand of the Messenger before the GOD. 5 And the Messenger has taken the Censer and cram fills it out of the fire of the Altar and casts it into the land. And became sounds and thunders and lightnings and an earthquake.
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Habakkuk 2:20
“But YAHWEH is in Holy Temple.
Let all the earth keep silence<2013> before HIM.”

Zepheniah 1:7
Be silent!<2013> in the presence of 'Adonay YAHWEH; For the day of YAHWEH is at hand,
For YAHWEH has prepared a sacrifice; HE has invited HIS guests.

Zechariah 2
13 “Be silent!<2013>, all flesh, before YAHWEH, for He is roused from HIS Holy Habitation!”
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