Escaping the Great Tribulation?

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 describes the event

The following verses give the timing [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-9; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; Revelation 3:10] .... just before the Lord brings the tribulation upon an unbelieving world .... the "day of the Lord" and His fierce anger upon those who have refused to believe the truth about Him [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Jude 1; Revelation 6:12-17]

You pretend that this will happen BEFORE the TRIBULATION
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 say that this will happen UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD , Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 tell us that His Coming will be AFTER the TRIBULATION.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Charlie24 · Aug 3, 2016

1Thes. 4:16-17
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

If there is a a post-trib rapture, will we meet the Lord in the air at His second coming and just come right back down with Him? I don't think so! This is a separate event that takes place before the second coming.

2Thes. 2:6-8
"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."

Someone (he) must be taken out of the way before the anti-christ can be revealed to the world. Who is (he)? It is the Holy Spirit. When (he) is taken out of the way, the anti-christ will have full reign on earth.

But here's the thing, when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, (he) will take his belongings with him, all believers. The Holy Spirit dwells inside the believer. Paul said that we believers are sealed with the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Eph. 1:13
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."

The Holy Spirit takes us with him before the anti-christ is turned loose.

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

If you don't want to go RB that is OK with me

If you are alive at the time be prepared for a rough ride in the trib .... and make certain that you repent [Revelation 3:15-19] .... if not your destination will be a hot one[Revelation 20:11-15]

When the first day of His judgment comes you will be among these here [Revelation 6:15-17]

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Charlie24 said:
1Thes. 4:16-17
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Why are you ignoring verse 15 who say that this will happen UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD.It is simple to understand ....that will not happen before.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

You do not know the day of the coming of the Lord RB .... it will be 2550 days earlier than you think

.... first to bring His judgment [Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 8 - 19].... and then to appear upon the earth at the ending

You are arguing yourself right out of His promise [Revelation 3:10]

Post-tribulation theology is bogus

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
You do not know the day of the coming of the Lord RB .... it will be 2550 days earlier than you think

.... first to bring His judgment [Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 8 - 19].... and then to appear upon the earth at the ending

You are arguing yourself right out of His promise [Revelation 3:10]

Post-tribulation theology is bogus

Why do you not quote the whole context of the address to the Philadelphia Church who was in existence in the time of John about 2,000 years ago rather than always quoting only verse 10?You will see that there is no mention of a rapture to Heaven ....

Revelation 3:7-13
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Charlie24 · Aug 3, 2016

Riberra said:
Why are you ignoring verse 15 who say that this will happen UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD.It is simple to understand ....that will not happen before.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The rapture and second coming are two separate events. Christ comes at the rapture to take His believers from His wrath on the unbelieving. He comes at the SC to destroy the anti-christ, save the remaining of Israel, and set up His kingdom on earth.

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

Correct Charlie

Listen up RB

The entire context of the passage does not nullify the essence of verse 3:10 in any way, but only enhances the same

In fact you should pay attention to verse 9 .... the Lord does not like those who claim to be Israel and are not [the replacement theology held by the majority of the professing "church"]

.... and here is another tip for you .... all who push a post-tribulation ruse and reject Revelation 3:10 are replacement theologists who claim Israel's position

This they must do, and exactly how the post-tribulation view was developed

The Lord considers those who do this to be of the "church" [synagogue] of Satan .... so watch out

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Charlie24 said:
The rapture and second coming are two separate events. Christ comes at the rapture to take His believers from His wrath on the unbelieving. He comes at the SC to destroy the anti-christ, save the remaining of Israel, and set up His kingdom on earth.

The rapture ie the caught up of the believers to meet the Lord IN THE AIR will happen UNTO HIS COMING.....The rapture to meet Jesus in the Air is tied to His VISIBLE Coming in Glory ....not two separate events.
See:
1 Thessalonians 4:14-18

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
Correct Charlie

Listen up RB

The entire context of the passage does not nullify the essence of verse 3:10 in any way, but only enhances the same

In fact you should pay attention to verse 9 .... the Lord does not like those who claim to be Israel and are not [the replacement theology held by the majority of the professing "church"]

.... and here is another tip for you .... all who push a post-tribulation ruse and reject Revelation 3:10 are replacement theologists who claim Israel's position

This they must do, and exactly how the post-tribulation view was developed

The Lord considers those who do this to be of the "church" [synagogue] of Satan .... so watch out

The synagogue of Satan those who pretended to be Jews but were not, were the Pharisee and High priests who have condemned Jesus to death.They have infiltrated and influenced the other Churches in existence in the times of John .

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

"The rapture ie the caught up of the believers to meet the Lord in the air will happen UNTO HIS COMING.....The rapture to meet Jesus in the Air is tied to His VISIBLE Coming in Glory ....not two separate events."

Nay

First His unprecedented judgment including many events as Revelation unfolds to the finish .... and only then will He appear upon the earth just after the days of the tribulation [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46]

The Revelation judgments will take many days to consummate [2550 days to be exact] .... and it is the Lord who will command and administer them, this is evident by Revelation's unfolding .... then He will appear .... but not until the tribulation is over

You are not reading your Bible and have been snookered by false teachers

miknik5 · Aug 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 describes the event

The following verses give the timing [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-9; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; Revelation 3:10] .... just before the Lord brings the tribulation upon an unbelieving world .... the "day of the Lord" and His fierce anger upon those who have refused to believe the truth about Him [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Jude 1; Revelation 6:12-17]

Again. Did the Lord bring "his fierce anger" upon Job?

Or did HE remove the hedge so that Satan had a temporary "reign" of unbridled/un held back evil?

2thesselonians 2 shows WHY evil will have full reign

You are confusing the Lords delay and attributing to God what should not be attributed to Him

l

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

"The synagogue od Satan those who pretended to be Jews but were not were the Pharisee and High priests who have condemned Jesus to death.They have infiltrated the other Churches"

No again ... His letters are a communication to the "church" .... not to the unbelieving of Judaism

And there were members of the same who began to claim that they were the "new Israel", and we have them today .... be careful whee you stand

Psalm3704 · Aug 3, 2016

Riberra said:
Here the Bible verses about the resurrection of the dead believers and the changing into immortality of the believes still alive at the time....Can you tell us where IN 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 it is said that the changing into immortality of the believers will happen BEFORE the Tribulation ?

1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Riberra, how can 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 happen immediately after the tribulation (a post-trib rapture)?

What does it say in verse 51? "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

We shall not all sleep! We shall not all sleep! We shall not all sleep! This means nobody died.

How many people do you actually think died after the tribulation? Zero?!

So again, how can 1 corinthians 15:5-55 be immediately after the tribulation if no one died?

Riberra said:
Can you tell us where IN 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 it is said that the changing into immortality of the believers will happen BEFORE the Tribulation ?

Oh and by the way. Can you show us where in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 it reveals the timing of the rapture happening post-trib? And the 7th trumpet doesn't happen immediately after the tribulation either if you're gonna use this as a rebuttal.

.

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
"The rapture ie the caught up of the believers to meet the Lord in the air will happen UNTO HIS COMING.....The rapture to meet Jesus in the Air is tied to His VISIBLE Coming in Glory ....not two separate events."

Nay

First His unprecedented judgment including many events as Revelation unfolds to the finish .... and only then will He appear upon the earth just after the days of the tribulation [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46]

The Revelation judgments will take many days to consummate [2550 days to be exact] .... and it is the Lord who will command and administer them, this is evident by Revelation's unfolding .... then He will appear .... but not until the tribulation is over

You are not reading your Bible and have been snookered by false teachers

That is right that there will be a Tribulation.You have shown us the bibles verses about the Tribulation. Where are those Bible verses talking about a removal of the believers BEFORE the Tribulation ?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 tell us that we will meet the Lord in the AIR UNTO HIS COMING not before the Tribulation.

Why are you trying to mislead people ?

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

"Again. Did the Lord bring "his fierce anger" upon Job?"

Totally unrelated .... the day of the Lord has not come yet and when it does all on the earth will know that they are under His judgment [Psalms 2; Jude 1; Revelation 6:12-17]

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

"And the 7th trumpet doesn't happen immediately after the tribulation either if you're gonna use this as a rebuttal."

For sure

The 7th judgment trumpet wraps the tribulation of 2550 days

The next trumpet that sounds after the days of the tribulation is for the gatherings of the mortal survivors of the same of both Israel and the Gentile nations ..... this is not a resurrection of anyone, but a separation of those found believing [sheep] and those found in unbelief [goats]

The "sheep" will enter and populate His Millennial kingdom upon the earth as mortals .... the "goats" will be rejected from the kingdom [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46]

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
"Again. Did the Lord bring "his fierce anger" upon Job?"

God have let Satan testing the loyalty of Job....Job have succeeded to stay faithful to God.A similar test will come upon the world to test the loyalty of the Christians Revelation 13.

Straightshot said:
Totally unrelated .... the day of the Lord has not come yet and when it does all on the earth will know that they are under His judgment [Psalms 2; Jude 1; Revelation 6:12-17]

Yes, there will be a Tribulation....and the Bible tell us that Jesus will come at the end of the tribulation to defeat the armies assembled at Armageddon (Revelation 19)and to punish all those who will have taken the mark of the beast during the tribulation.

Charlie24 · Aug 3, 2016

There is much more to the resurrection than the post-trib's attribute to it. I think that has been made evident in this post.

Just as SS said, there is a core belief among the post-trib's that can't allow the rapture to be true.

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Charlie24 said:
There is much more to the resurrection than the post-trib's attribute to it. I think that has been made evident in this post.

Just as SS said, there is a core belief among the post-trib's that can't allow the rapture to be true.

What you call the rapture,is only the caught up of the believers to meet Jesus in the Air UNTO His Coming....

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 tell us that we will meet the Lord in the AIR UNTO HIS COMING not before the Tribulation.

Read the text of 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 this is what the Bible say....

Those who talk about a rapture to Heaven before the Tribulation have taken this from the book LEFT BEHIND and the likes.

Paul tell us about something very different....

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18

1 Corinthians 15:50-55

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