Escaping the Great Tribulation?

Straightshot · Aug 2, 2016

Get what straight? .... if you want any response from me you will have to do a better job of defining your statements

So one thing at a time .... otherwise no dialogue

The subject is His promise to keep His true ecclesia away from His coming tribulation upon an unbelieving world [Revelation 3:10]

This He is going to do ..... no doubt

You say .... no .... you are flat wrong .... whether you choose to participate or not

So explain yourself .... what are you doing?

Stick to the topic and give me your proof from scripture alone .... nothing else

Show me from His word that He is not going to keep His promise and instead He is going to expose living believers at the time to His unprecedented wrath and judgment upon a unbelieving world

I do not want your views on the matter .... I want scripture

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Straightshot said:
Get what straight? .... if you want any response from me you will have to do a better job of defining your statements

So one thing at a time .... otherwise no dialogue

The subject is His promise to keep His true ecclesia away from His coming tribulation upon an unbelieving world [Revelation 3:10]

This He is going to do ..... no doubt

You say .... no .... you are flat wrong .... whether you choose to participate or not

So explain yourself .... what are you doing?

Stick to the topic and give me your proof from scripture alone .... nothing else

Show me from His word that He is not going to keep His promise and instead He is going to expose living believers at the time to His unprecedented wrath and judgment upon a unbelieving world

I do not want your views on the matter .... I want scripture

Sir have you entered in by way of The DOOR?

Do you trust the One who is the Foundation and Head of His Body

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

The scriptures speak for themselves. His forewarning to His Body to overcome was to His Body

And that forewarning was so that we would be prepared and be ready waiting and trusting in Him and not "beating the servants"

And by the way. All that I have said is supported by His Word.

Do you think I just decided to speak from my own imagination

Tell me what I have said that you question so that I can remind you of the scriptures

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Straight shot.
Who did you think Christ was forewarning in revelation 1-3?

You only refer to Revelation 3:10?

Who did you think He was talking to when He said those I love I rebuke so be diligent? Or remember your First Love? Or I have found your works incomplete in the sight of My God or I urge you to buy from Me salve and garments to cover your nakedness

His forwarning is to His Church (those yesterday, those today, and those tomorrow) to be ready and keep our eyes on Him and wait

Even if HE delays

And some will enter into these things which HE already forewarned that they should not lose HOPE and begin to do what they should not do

Straightshot · Aug 2, 2016

Don't give me the run around .... I want what I specifically asked for

If you cannot and or are unwilling to do this that is OK with me, but to tell me that I must get this topic "straight" is unacceptable

So you decide .... otherwise the case is closed .... no need to ramble on .... no good purpose

If you do not want to take the Lord at His word and to enter His tribulation .... I really do not care

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Straightshot said:
Don't give me the run around .... I want what I specifically asked for

If you cannot and or are unwilling to do this that is OK with me, but to tell me that I must get this topic "straight" is unacceptable

So you decide .... otherwise the case is closed .... no need to ramble on .... no good purpose

If you do not want to take the Lord at His word and to enter His tribulation .... I really do not care

I said to get the fact that God is The Father of Light who only gives Good Gifts to His Children...get that straight. That the wrath that will come when He who holds all things back is taken out of the way is simply that He is no longer holding all things back and that during this time satan and evil will have full reignstraight.

And as to my somehow claiming that He does Not keep His Promise, I suggest you show me where I claimed that

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

You want me to agree with you on a specific thing that you have decided. That is a protein rapture.

I don't think I can agree with you on that for the very reason that HE forewarn a His Body to do certain things during a time of trouble so that they will be ready and will overcome

If you want me to agree you will need to supply the scriptures but if these are not in line to the whole of His Word no

I can't agree with you

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

And you're angry with me for not agreeing with you?

You can't really do anything sir to even suggest if I want to face tribulation than so be it

It will be what it will be regardless of you saying anything

But let me tell you one thing that is the problem already

That you really do not care?
Again have you entered in by The Door?
Do you trust the One who is the Foundayion and Head of His Body?

Then be like Rahab and wait and don't go out

Oh and care
In that sense be like Lot

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Another question

Paul and Peter and John and all those saints. Did they get raptured?

What they suffered for the sake of His Name was not brought on by God's wrath but by angry and violent men who do not know God

Charlie24 · Aug 2, 2016

What did the Lord mean when He said "to watch and be ready." Did He mean to dig out an underground bunker and round up all the food possible to help fed the starving? Did He mean to be ready to give your life for the faith? Did He mean to gather weapons to fight the anti-christ?
Or was He talking to Israel who rejects the New Testament and has no clue of what is coming? We believe and know the scripture says Christ will come at the second coming and destroy the anti-christ, ending the great tribulation, they do not.

Here's the problem with post-trib theory! Christ is not talking to the believers, He's talking to Israel! And here's the other problem, the folks who push post-trib refuse to believe that every single end-time prophesy is centered around the nation of Israel. That's why they will never understand.

Straightshot · Aug 2, 2016

"And you're angry with me for not agreeing with you?"

No .... I want you to prove with scripture that the Lord will not do this [Revelation 3:10]

.... but you beat around the bush with no valid response

When I see this behavior I know that you are sparing .... so we will part company

Straightshot · Aug 2, 2016

"Here's the problem with post-trib theory!"

You are correct Charlie

And it this same teaching that refutes His promise [Revelation 3:10] and at the same time denies His position with regard for His national people of Israel [replacement theology]

And you find that the same teach a religion of works necessary for one to be saved .... specifically set out by the organization .... this is cult-like behavior

The historical SDA is a primary example .... there are others much bigger

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Straightshot said:
"And you're angry with me for not agreeing with you?"

No .... I want you to prove with scripture that the Lord will not do this [Revelation 3:10]

.... but you beat around the bush with no valid response

When I see this behavior I know that you are sparing .... so we will part company

And I want you to prove that you are doing these things and are therefore identified by Christ as these of His Body who understand what it means to endure patiently

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Straightshot said:
"Here's the problem with post-trib theory!"

You are correct Charlie

And it this same teaching that refutes His promise [Revelation 3:10] and at the same time denies His position with regard for His national people of Israel [replacement theology]

And you find that the same teach a religion of works necessary for one to be saved .... specifically set out by the organization .... this is cult-like behavior

The historical SDA is a primary example .... there are others much bigger

I'm not talking about pre trib or post trib

But I do believe I am talking about a mid trib rapture

The scripture which supports this is that in heaven there are those souls who are crying out how long oh sovereign lord until you avenge our deaths

And the lord tells them to wait until the numbers who will die just as they have are complete

And He gives them a white robe

Who else before the throne in heaven have white robes but those who are of His Body

Washed by the blood of The Lamb
And that's every nation of people including the 144000

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Straightshot said:
"Here's the problem with post-trib theory!"

You are correct Charlie

And it this same teaching that refutes His promise [Revelation 3:10] and at the same time denies His position with regard for His national people of Israel [replacement theology]

And you find that the same teach a religion of works necessary for one to be saved .... specifically set out by the organization .... this is cult-like behavior

The historical SDA is a primary example .... there are others much bigger

Actually sir it is you who are restricting The Lord and suggesting that He only intends to rapture the church of "Philadelphia"

But you sir don't understand that mixed in Every outward denomination of every outward church who professes His Name a mixture of all these types of members of His Body.

From the church of "Ephesus" to the church of Laodicea"

miknik5 · Aug 2, 2016

Straightshot said:
"Here's the problem with post-trib theory!"

You are correct Charlie

And it this same teaching that refutes His promise [Revelation 3:10] and at the same time denies His position with regard for His national people of Israel [replacement theology]

And you find that the same teach a religion of works necessary for one to be saved .... specifically set out by the organization .... this is cult-like behavior

The historical SDA is a primary example .... there are others much bigger

Okay here's the question

What "works"
What "patient endurance"

Certainly you understand it wasn't to beat up "the servants"

It was to wait
To be still and know that He is God
To not go out. To not uproot. To not avenge what is not in your right to avenge. To not live by the sword. But to be patient and Remain in Him and to not go out from His Spirit thereby making manifest by what we do we misrepresent His Spirit
So very easy to be patient and have faith when all things are good
Another thing to be patient and have faith when all things are very very very bad

tickingclocker · Aug 2, 2016

="Straightshot, post: 69937282, member: 374084"]My comment

....And I will add that the Lord's true ecclesia will never give up their faith .... even if He does not keep them from His coming judgment

However, this will not be the case .... He will make good on His promise [Revelation 3:10; 18:4] .... no doubt....

---Forgive me for intruding into this conversation (which I admit I know very little about), but this promise in Rev. 3:10 could very well mean the Lord takes your life beforehand, through sickness, violence, etc. Doesn't mean you will be raptured. I would consider it a blessing if the Lord saw fit to keep me from going through the tribulation by taking my life.

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

"---Forgive me for intruding into this conversation (which I admit I know very little about), but this promise in Rev. 3:10 could very well mean the Lord takes your life beforehand, through sickness, violence, etc. Doesn't mean you will be raptured. I would consider it a blessing if the Lord saw fit to keep me from going through the tribulation by taking my life.'

I can understand your position

Revelation 3:10 needs to be studied in conjunction with a number of other related scriptures in order to conclude that His promise is in fact the event of making both the dead in Christ immortal and those living on the earth at the time .... it is the living that He will keep from His coming judgment upon an unbelieving world

This event will happen for both together at the same time in the twinkling of an eye

I can give you a number of scriptures that support Revelation 3:10 as the "rapture" if you like

Riberra · Aug 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
"---Forgive me for intruding into this conversation (which I admit I know very little about), but this promise in Rev. 3:10 could very well mean the Lord takes your life beforehand, through sickness, violence, etc. Doesn't mean you will be raptured. I would consider it a blessing if the Lord saw fit to keep me from going through the tribulation by taking my life.'

I can understand your position

Revelation 3:10 needs to be studied in conjunction with a number of other related scriptures in order to conclude that His promise is in fact the event of making both the dead in Christ immortal and those living on the earth at the time .... it is the living that He will keep from His coming judgment upon an unbelieving world

This event will happen for both together at the same time in the twinkling of an eye

I can give you a number of scriptures that support Revelation 3:10 as the "rapture" if you like

Here the Bible verses about the resurrection of the dead believers and the changing into immortality of the believes still alive at the time....Can you tell us where IN 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 it is said that the changing into immortality of the believers will happen BEFORE the Tribulation ?

1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2016

1 Corinthians 15:51-58 describes the event

The following verses give the timing [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-9; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; Revelation 3:10] .... just before the Lord brings the tribulation upon an unbelieving world .... the "day of the Lord" and His fierce anger upon those who have refused to believe the truth about Him [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Jude 1; Revelation 6:12-17]

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