• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Riberra

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
5,098
594
✟97,664.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why not pray the LORD will have mercy on you that you rest in peace before the tribulation!!! :/
Surely that a lot of Christians will also die in the great devastating worldwide earthquake at the beginning of the tribulation mentioned in Revelation 6:12-14

Revelation 6:12-14
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
 
Upvote 0

Riberra

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
5,098
594
✟97,664.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Trust me! No one wants to get beyond that! and not because of anything but I saw where the confusion came on rapture, Otherwise, it better be!
Are you saying that if you are alive at that time -you will be rapture out of the Earth before this happen- ...the magical thinking promoted by the 'Pre-tribbers Churches' since 1830 ?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Linet Kihonge

Shalom
Aug 18, 2015
1,012
229
Nairobi
✟24,980.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
No, dear, what I'm saying this, the rapture will happen in Revelation 20 and in Consistency with the Epistles order of resurrection:

Revelation 7

[After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,
“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying,
“Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.”

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.]

I said, may the LORD have mercy you that he will spare you the TRIBULATION! That's all!
 
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,728
2,819
USA
✟109,054.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
it depends on what you define as immortal If you mean glorified bodies are in Heaven no. That I do not believe. I believe absent from the body is present with the Lord but the actual resurrection of our spirits joined with our glorified and changed bodies is not in heaven. The white garments signify the church unblemished washed by the blood of the lamb
But and a BIG BUT (which might be the issue between this separated idea of the church of the Gentiles as separate from the Jewish remnant ) I believe it is ONE CHURCH ...made up of all those whose faith is on The Gospel. And not separated as the church of the converted Gentiles separate from the church of the converted Jews. One in One. The near (the Jew who had all the word and promises of God) and the far (gentile who didn't)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Riberra

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
5,098
594
✟97,664.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I said, may the LORD have mercy you that he will spare you the TRIBULATION! That's all!
If we die before the tribulation begin we will be spared of it.I remember a passage in the Bible saying that those that will be alive during that time will envy those who are dead.
 
Reactions: Linet Kihonge
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,728
2,819
USA
✟109,054.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why not pray the LORD to have mercy on you so that you rest in peace before the tribulation!!! :/
Yes. Rest. Be still and know that HE is GOD


I think everyone's head is swimming
 
Upvote 0

Straightshot

Member
Feb 13, 2015
4,742
295
57
✟23,734.00
Faith
Christian
I see that RB is quoting from the preterist archive .... is this where you go for your research?

http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/2005_macpherson_pretrib-diehards.html

David McPherson is a false teacher RB .... this fact is well known .... and His entire MacDonald/Darby ruse is fraudulent

His picking of MacDonald's vision to prove his case was a big mistake, and he just hopes that few people will check out his story

The vision does not even teach a pre-tribulation "rapture" as he claims .... and even then MacDonald was not a Bible prophet .... you will not find MacDonald in any scripture of the Lord's more sure word of prophecy

Better do some more research
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,728
2,819
USA
✟109,054.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If we die before the tribulation begin we will be spared of it.I remember a passage in the Bible saying that those that will be alive during that time will envy those who are dead.
I think you are confusing blessed are those who die in the lord from now on?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Straightshot

Member
Feb 13, 2015
4,742
295
57
✟23,734.00
Faith
Christian
"I think you are confusing blessed are those who die on the lord from now on?"

No doubt

These will become believers during the tribulation and martyred [Revelation 6:9-11; 13:7; 14:13]

The first believers of of Israel in the tribulation will be [Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7]

And these will spread the gospel during the period

.... and there will be others who will turn who were not believers before
 
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,728
2,819
USA
✟109,054.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes. I believe that the 144000 will be martyred also

I believe this is why we see before the throne in Heaven all nations of people including the 144000 all wearing white robes
 
Upvote 0

Straightshot

Member
Feb 13, 2015
4,742
295
57
✟23,734.00
Faith
Christian
Yes. I believe that the 144000 will be martyred also


There is really nothing to tell of their specific martyrdom, in fact these will be sealed for protection against the wiles of the the tribulation so that they can spread the gospel during the period [Revelation 7:3; 14:1-7]

These will be the first saved believers of the tribulation period on the earth .... all of the dead in Christ and the living at the time will have already been made immortal just before .... this is why they are seen in heaven here [Revelation 7:9-17] in contrast with the 144000 upon the earth

And the same of His immortal ecclesia are seen again in heaven before the throne of the Lord during the tribulation as Revelation unfolds [Revelation 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9]

.... and here just at the end of the period [Revelation 19:14; 20:4 [those already on thrones]

Revelation is a series of visions on various subjects that repeat giving more additional details of a subject as Revelation progresses

Know that Revelation is layered by subject matter and not necessarily chronological

In this case the immortals of His true ecclesia are seen at the beginning of the tribulation and several times to the end of the same .... each vision gives more details
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Riberra

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
5,098
594
✟97,664.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where did i said that Margaret MacDonald's was a prophet of God....?

MacPhearson made the demonstration that Darby was post POST TRIB before mid 1830 ....That is when he heard about Margaret MacDonald's vision that he began to promote the pre-trib vision...



1825: British preacher Edward Irving revealed that he had been teaching some of dispensationalism's key aspects as early as late 1825. (John Darby-exalter R. A. Huebner has never even claimed to find any original prophetic idea in Darby before late 1826!)

1827-1830: Darby was still posttrib during these years. His 1827 paper had him waiting for only the posttrib "restitution of all things." After discussing in 1828 the "unity" of the church, he looked for only the Rev. 19 coming in 1829 and 1830.

1830: During the spring a young woman in Scotland, Margaret Macdonald, declared that she had discovered in the Bible what had never been seen by others: a rapture of "church" members described as a "pre-Antichrist" (or pretrib) event. Her words: "one taken and the other left" before "THE WICKED [Antichrist] be revealed." She was a partial rapturist seeing only part of the "church" raptured and the rest of the "church" left on earth. When she wrote that the "trial of the Church is from Antichrist," she meant the part of the church not included in her pretrib rapture. Leading partial rapturists including Pember and Govett have always applied the word "church" to the ones "left behind." Robert Norton, Irvingite historian and on-scene witness of Margaret's utterances, wrote that Margaret was the "first" to privately teach pretrib.

A September article in "The Morning Watch" (Irvingite journal) saw the "Philadelphia" church raptured before a "period of great tribulation" and the "Laodicea" church left on earth. Huebner's "Precious Truths" claimed that Philadelphia was seen raptured before only the "seventh vial" and not before "the great tribulation" even though the article writer added twice on following pages that this "period" was indeed "the great tribulation"! In the previous (June) issue the same writer had seen Philadelphia on earth until the final posttrib advent. In between these two issues, TMW writers had visited Margaret who explained her new "revelation" which was soon reflected on TMW pages without giving her credit! In December a published article by Darby was still defending the posttrib view!
Pre-Trib Rapture Diehards!
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/2005_macpherson_pretrib-diehards.html

Original writings from Margaret Macdonald vision:
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/1975_macpherson_incredible-coverup.html
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Straightshot

Member
Feb 13, 2015
4,742
295
57
✟23,734.00
Faith
Christian
Your belief of all of this nonsense is bogus RB

McPherson made it all up, even to the extent of using a false vision of a young Scottish girl that does not support his claim

People who believe McPerson's ruse have been snookered

So you continue to follow this false teacher if you like, but I will tell you one last thing before my dialogue with you ends

The Lord could call for His true ecclesia before this day is over .... not one thing to prevent

If you are not ready and still alive in the body, you will enter the period of His wrath and judgment upon a world of unbelief as you seem to want .... not a good place to go, particularly since the reason for the tribulation is to punish unbelievers

And if you do get there make certain that you turn to the Lord and repent [Revelation 3:15-20]

If you don't, your spirit will end up here [Revelation 20:11-15]

Believe that Satan has motive in his influence upon McPherson and others like him [Revelation 12:12]
 
Upvote 0

Riberra

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
5,098
594
✟97,664.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Paul tell us that our gathering to meet Jesus in the air will not come until there come a great falling away in the Church first and that the man of Sin be revealed. This is contrary to the 'at any time' false teaching that you promote.
2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


You have showed zero verses coming from the Bible saying that the Church will be made immortal and taken to Heaven before the Tribulation.

In your 'interpretation' of the Scriptures you came up to say that there will be 2 LAST TRUMP one before the Tribulation and the other at the Coming of Jesus. Your vision about prophecies is trouble ,everything is doubled ---You promote --2 Coming of Jesus yet to come--2 resurrection and two gathering of the just (believers) yet to come--You interpret the reference about the flood in 2 Peter 3 as meaning that you will be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation while that the subject is about what will happen unto the Coming of the Lord when Jesus will destroy the sinners by His Glory.

Can you tell us what is YOUR blessed hope Straightshot ?Why are you not honest and tell us that your blessed hope is the pre -tribulation rapture false doctrine into which you have put all your faith...rather than the appearance of Jesus in Glory.

The Bible tell us what is the blessed hope of His true ecclesia:
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,728
2,819
USA
✟109,054.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If we die before the tribulation begin we will be spared of it.I remember a passage in the Bible saying that those that will be alive during that time will envy those who are dead.
You were referring to revelation 9:6
 
Upvote 0

Endtime Survivors

prophecy link in my profile!
Apr 4, 2016
1,400
458
Africa
Visit site
✟38,238.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Earlier I expressed a curiosity in exploring "what if's" and I'm still curious as to what a "what if" would look like from the pre-trib perspective. I'm not asking anyone to change their point of view, confess to being wrong, or suggesting that anyone is less spiritual than the other. I see this only as a discussion. In that context I'd like to get a little more clarity from pre-tribbers.

For example, if I'm wrong in my post-trib position, then I'll be raptured up before the problems and at worst I will have over prepared. I doubt God will be upset with me for preparing to suffer and die for my faith, so I don't see any significant consequence to being mistaken about a post-trib stance. I'd probably feel a little embarassed at having been so sure and promoting it so strongly, only to have been mistaken, but I think I'd get over that pretty quickly.

On the other hand, I can see some fairly significant consequences arising from the pre-trib position, if the pre-tribbers are indeed mistaken in their interpretation of the evidence. What I'd like more clarification on is that (assuming the pre-tribbers got it wrong) at what point would you recognize the mistake? The Mark of the Beast? The rise of the AC? The two witnesses running around burning people with fire from their mouths?

At what point do you think, "the evidence around me is too much to continue believing a pre-trib rapture. Surely this is the end time"? Remember, this is only a hypothetical. Responding to the hypothetical is not an admission of error any more than I admitted to being wrong by suggesting what my reaction would be if I do end up being wrong in my position.
 
Upvote 0

Riberra

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
5,098
594
✟97,664.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You were referring to Revelation 9:6
Thanks !
Yes ,that is possibly a variation from a translation of the text [or a commentary]that may refers to that time during the Tribulation which is about a grievous pain who will affect during 5 months only those who are not believers in Jesus Christ../that grievous pain in their flesh will affect only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.verse 4/

Revelation 9

9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Linet Kihonge

Shalom
Aug 18, 2015
1,012
229
Nairobi
✟24,980.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private

Are you saying rapture will happen before the tribulation. The scripture says, the ones in white robes would be the ones "who come out of the tribulation'" not those who came out of the tribulation meaning it was a projection of the multitude of martyred saints in the great white throne after the fall of the Church and the elect. It's the Saints (besides 144,000) who will survive or die either in the seals, trumpets, and the bowls of wrath. So I'm sorry, as I said, if I were you I would pray to be in the LORD's presence before all these and that is what RB is saying. There's no one who will be taken to heaven in glorification form until the first resurrection has occurred! :/
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.