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Surely that a lot of Christians will also die in the great devastating worldwide earthquake at the beginning of the tribulation mentioned in Revelation 6:12-14Why not pray the LORD will have mercy on you that you rest in peace before the tribulation!!! :/
Are you saying that if you are alive at that time -you will be rapture out of the Earth before this happen- ...the magical thinking promoted by the 'Pre-tribbers Churches' since 1830 ?Trust me! No one wants to get beyond that! and not because of anything but I saw where the confusion came on rapture, Otherwise, it better be!
What matters is that Darby have taken her account and started to preach the false doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture .
Here some history facts about Darby's work
1825: British preacher Edward Irving revealed that he had been teaching some of dispensationalism's key aspects as early as late 1825. (John Darby-exalter R. A. Huebner has never even claimed to find any original prophetic idea in Darby before late 1826!)
1827-1830: Darby was still posttrib during these years. His 1827 paper had him waiting for only the posttrib "restitution of all things." After discussing in 1828 the "unity" of the church, he looked for only the Rev. 19 coming in 1829 and 1830.
1830: During the spring a young woman in Scotland, Margaret Macdonald, declared that she had discovered in the Bible what had never been seen by others: a rapture of "church" members described as a "pre-Antichrist" (or pretrib) event. Her words: "one taken and the other left" before "THE WICKED [Antichrist] be revealed." She was a partial rapturist seeing only part of the "church" raptured and the rest of the "church" left on earth. When she wrote that the "trial of the Church is from Antichrist," she meant the part of the church not included in her pretrib rapture. Leading partial rapturists including Pember and Govett have always applied the word "church" to the ones "left behind." Robert Norton, Irvingite historian and on-scene witness of Margaret's utterances, wrote that Margaret was the "first" to privately teach pretrib.
A September article in "The Morning Watch" (Irvingite journal) saw the "Philadelphia" church raptured before a "period of great tribulation" and the "Laodicea" church left on earth. Huebner's "Precious Truths" claimed that Philadelphia was seen raptured before only the "seventh vial" and not before "the great tribulation" even though the article writer added twice on following pages that this "period" was indeed "the great tribulation"! In the previous (June) issue the same writer had seen Philadelphia on earth until the final posttrib advent. In between these two issues, TMW writers had visited Margaret who explained her new "revelation" which was soon reflected on TMW pages without giving her credit! In December a published article by Darby was still defending the posttrib view!
1833: British lawyer Robert Baxter, an ex-Irvingite, wrote that the pretrib "delusion first appeared in Scotland" before it began to be taught in London the following year.
1834: A Darby letter referred to the new pretrib rapture view, stated that "the thoughts are new," and advocated the subtle introduction of it by writing "it would not be well to have it so clear"! Darby also called it the "new wine." Others who knew that pretrib was then a new view included other Plymouth Brethren, Irvingites, Margaret, and later 19th century historians such as Margaret Oliphant who referred to "a new revelation" in 1830 in western Scotland where Margaret Macdonald lived.
1837: Years after Darby supposedly had derived a distinction (or separation) between the "church" and "Israel," his 1837 article saw the church "going in with Him to the marriage, to wit, with Jerusalem and the Jews"!
1839: The first year Darby was clearly pretrib. His pretrib basis then (and during the next three decades) was Rev. 12:5's "man child" that is "caught up." But this "new" Darby teaching was actually a plagiarism of Edward Irving who had been using this verse for the same (pretrib) purpose since 1831!
1843: In a letter written from Switzerland, Darby referred to "the dissemination of truth and blessing...thus spreading on the right hand and on the left, without knowing whence it came or how it sprung up all of a sudden...." Here he gloated that others didn't know "whence" pretrib came or that he had advocated the subtle sneaking of the new pretrib view into existing groups (see "1834" above)!
1853: Darby's book "The Irrationalism of Infidelity" recalled his visit to Margaret Macdonald and her brothers in mid-1830. He remembered 23 minor details but carefully omitted the most important one: Margaret's teaching of a coming of Christ that would exempt believers from the great tribulation "judgments"----a detail that all others who visited her and then wrote accounts could easily remember! (It's obvious that Todd Strandberg's mother didn't soap his mouth enough because even though he knows better after the airing of "Open Letter to Todd Strandberg" on the internet, his falsehood-packed "Margaret MacDonald Who?" article on his "Rapture Ready" site continues to pollute minds by stating that I "have never been able to prove that Darby had ever heard of MacDonald or her vision"!)
1855: An article by eminent Brethren scholar S. P. Tregelles tied "Judaisers" to pretrib. But in an 1864 book he tied "Irving's Church" to pretrib. Both Huebner and Walvoord claimed that Tregelles contradicted himself, and Huebner charged Tregelles with "untruth and slander." But even William Kelly, Darby's editor, saw no contradiction and wrote, concerning "Judaising," that "nowhere is this so patent as in Irvingism"!
1861: Robert Norton, medical doctor and Irvingite, wrote that the "true origin" of pretrib had been "hidden and misrepresented." (This was about the time that Kelly was working towards the goal of elevating Darby and giving the false impression that Darby should be credited with the pretrib view.) Several pages later, in the same book, Norton revealed Margaret as the true originator of pretrib.
1863: In his "Five Letters" leading Brethren scholar Tregelles wrote that some Brethren had been unscrupulously issuing tracts by the thousands in which they changed the "words and doctrines" of "the Reformers and others" to give the impression that those ancient writers had actually been teaching the novel doctrines that some Darbyist Brethren were then circulating in the 1800's!
1864: Brethren scholar Tregelles charged fellow Brethren with changing even the words in ancient hymns: "Sometimes from a hymn being altered, writers appear to set forth a secret rapture of which they had never heard, or against which they have protested." I should add that in an 1865 letter Darby asked his editor to preserve the newer (pretrib) hymns and "correct the others," that is, the older (posttrib) ones!
1860's: From the 1860's to the 1880's William Kelly, editor of Darby's works, was busy putting together some volumes known as "The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby." Opposition to Darbyism had been increasing and Kelly was determined to fight it and continue to exalt Darby. His goal was to present a Darby that was prophetically "mature" long before he actually matured. He achieved this dishonesty with misleading words in brackets inside sentences in Darby's early works, and with footnotes that he "borrowed" from Darby's much later works when he was obviously more developed! Darby even gave this deviousness his blessing. In an 1865 letter to Kelly he wrote: "I should think that some of the Notes would require some revising....Even the sermons contain things I should not accept...." Kelly even flaunted his shameful manipulation in a footnote to Darby's 1830 article; the note said that "it was not worth while either suppressing or changing it."
More;
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/2005_macpherson_pretrib-diehards.html
it depends on what you define as immortal If you mean glorified bodies are in Heaven no. That I do not believe. I believe absent from the body is present with the Lord but the actual resurrection of our spirits joined with our glorified and changed bodies is not in heaven. The white garments signify the church unblemished washed by the blood of the lambLets clarify a point...do you believe that the Church will be made immortal and taken to Heaven BEFORE the Tribulation /or do you believe that the Church will be made immortal and caught up to meet Jesus in the AIR UNTO HIS COMING ?
The Bible preach the latter.
If we die before the tribulation begin we will be spared of it.I remember a passage in the Bible saying that those that will be alive during that time will envy those who are dead.I said, may the LORD have mercy you that he will spare you the TRIBULATION! That's all!
Yes. Rest. Be still and know that HE is GODWhy not pray the LORD to have mercy on you so that you rest in peace before the tribulation!!! :/
I think you are confusing blessed are those who die in the lord from now on?If we die before the tribulation begin we will be spared of it.I remember a passage in the Bible saying that those that will be alive during that time will envy those who are dead.
Yes. I believe that the 144000 will be martyred also"I think you are confusing blessed are those who die on the lord from now on?"
No doubt
These will become believers during the tribulation and martyred [Revelation 6:9-11; 13:7; 14:13]
The first believers of of Israel in the tribulation will be [Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7]
And these will spread the gospel during the period
.... and there will be others who will turn who were not believers before
Where did i said that Margaret MacDonald's was a prophet of God....?His picking of MacDonald's vision to prove his case was a big mistake, and he just hopes that few people will check out his story
The vision does not even teach a pre-tribulation "rapture" as he claims .... and even then MacDonald was not a Bible prophet .... you will not find MacDonald in any scripture of the Lord's more sure word of prophecy
Better do some more research
Paul tell us that our gathering to meet Jesus in the air will not come until there come a great falling away in the Church first and that the man of Sin be revealed. This is contrary to the 'at any time' false teaching that you promote.The Lord could call for His true ecclesia before this day is over .... not one thing to prevent
If you are not ready and still alive in the body, you will enter the period of His wrath and judgment upon a world of unbelief as you seem to want .... not a good place to go, particularly since the reason for the tribulation is to punish unbelievers
And if you do get there make certain that you turn to the Lord and repent [Revelation 3:15-20]
If you don't, your spirit will end up here [Revelation 20:11-15]
Believe that Satan has motive in his influence upon McPherson and others like him [Revelation 12:12]
You were referring to revelation 9:6If we die before the tribulation begin we will be spared of it.I remember a passage in the Bible saying that those that will be alive during that time will envy those who are dead.
Thanks !You were referring to Revelation 9:6
Your belief of all of this nonsense is bogus RB
McPherson made it all up, even to the extent of using a false vision of a young Scottish girl that does not support his claim
People who believe McPerson's ruse have been snookered
So you continue to follow this false teacher if you like, but I will tell you one last thing before my dialogue with you ends
The Lord could call for His true ecclesia before this day is over .... not one thing to prevent
If you are not ready and still alive in the body, you will enter the period of His wrath and judgment upon a world of unbelief as you seem to want .... not a good place to go, particularly since the reason for the tribulation is to punish unbelievers
And if you do get there make certain that you turn to the Lord and repent [Revelation 3:15-20]
If you don't, your spirit will end up here [Revelation 20:11-15]
Believe that Satan has motive in his influence upon McPherson and others like him [Revelation 12:12]
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