Escaping the Great Tribulation?

Straightshot said:

Both of the scriptures offered above pertain to a remnant of believing Israel during the tribulation .... the coming time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah 30; Matthew 24; Luke 21:20-36] .... nothing to do with today's "church"

Are you one of the 12 tribes of Israel? .... and if so I would assume by your postings that you have accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah and King

Click to expand...

And that is really all you need to know.

Which is why that is all we were called to preach

Straightshot said:

Both of the scriptures offered above pertain to a remnant of believing Israel during the tribulation .... the coming time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah 30; Matthew 24; Luke 21:20-36] .... nothing to do with today's "church"

Are you one of the 12 tribes of Israel? .... and if so I would assume by your postings that you have accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah and King

Click to expand...

IF it is still timely,
which "scriptures", posts and poster(s) is this referring to ?

Straightshot said:

Both of the scriptures offered above pertain to a remnant of believing Israel during the tribulation .... the coming time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah 30; Matthew 24; Luke 21:20-36] .... nothing to do with today's "church"

Are you one of the 12 tribes of Israel? .... and if so I would assume by your postings that you have accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah and King

Click to expand...

One Body. One olive tree. One Lord

There is a remnant but since God hasn't identified to us those who are already known to Him our work was to point all to The Lord

For Christ did not come to divide but to bring together the two and make them One

The scriptures do not agree with you on this matter

The Lord has specifically identified His national people of Israel, past, present, and future .... no doubt

He is not finished with Israel as some teach and He identifies the nation as a separate entity apart from the Gentiles of the nations from Genesis to Revelation

So you are not one of these, you are a Gentile .... and for example Matthew 24; Luke 21:20-36; and Revelation 12 do not pertain to you

Now I see why you say some of the things you do in your postings like if alive at the time, you will experience the Lord's unprecedented period of wrath and judgment

There are a number of the divides of professing Christianity that teach replacement theology .... which one do you follow?

miknik5 said:

Where does this woman say that she is pretrib?

Click to expand...

. I feIt as Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left,

http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/1975_macpherson_incredible-coverup.html

Riberra said:

[QUOTE="miknik5, post: 69982419, member: 387982"
Where does this woman say that she is pretrib?

Click to expand...

. I feIt as Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left,[/QUOTE]
I see it more as those who had a part in the "first resurrection"

Straightshot said:

McDonald's vision was a fraud in the first place ..... the woman was not a prophet .... there are no genuine prophets except the Bible prophets

So for a guy like David McPherson to concoct a story linking McDonald's vision to the preacher Darby for the origin of the Lord's pre-tribulation call that presents the same as a "lie of the devil" is abhorrent ..... McPherson and those like him are expressing their covert disdain for the Lord's Word .... these dudes are reprobate false teachers and not to be followed

So if you want to base your theology on such nonsense go ahead, and if you want to enter His wrath and judgment of the tribulation at Satan's delight you may just do that ... unless you die first before the day .... if you know what I mean

Click to expand...

Extra oil is needed to light up your lamp more longer...not to fall in the next hype about a supposed Rapture of the Church which is supposed to happen soon...that was supposed to happen in 2014 or 2015 during the tethrad red blood moon.

Will you have enough oil in your lamp until the Coming of Jesus and our gathering unto Him whom Paul warn us will happen only after the man of sin is revealed or will your lamp be out of oil because you expect Jesus to come to gather you before the tribulation ?

Could happen before this day is over [2 Peter 3] .... you don't want to be found as a scoffer

Have you checked your lamp lately?

Straightshot said:

Could happen before this day is over [2 Peter 3] .... you don't want to be found as a scoffer

Have you checked your lamp lately?

Click to expand...

My lamp works perfectly and will not tarry of oil.

There is no mention that the Church will be taken to Heaven in 2 Peter 3 .
But surely that the believers will have been made immortal few moment before 2 Peter 3 which is related to the Coming of Jesus...it is not clear if 2 Peter 3 :7 will happen at the beginning of the Millennium or at the END of the Millennium in preparation to the New Earth.The Day of the Lord will spend on a 1,000 years period until Jesus delivers the Kingdom to His Father.

2 Peter 3
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

"I feIt as Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left"


There is no "rapture" in the scriptures that RB has highlighted .... this pass age refers to Israel in the tribulation .... the time of Jacob's trouble

Those of Israel taken will be taken in judgment because of their unbelief .... the balance of the believing remnant will be left to enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom just after the tribulation

Matthew 24 is all about Israel at the time of the end .... not the "church" of today

In MacDonald's church denomination she was taught that the Lord was finished with His nation of Israel , so she misapplied the "taken and left" experience to the "church" in her purported vision .... her understanding was wrong in the first place and the composite of the vision has her church going through the tribulation

There is no way that anyone like Darby could have used the vision to promote a pre-tribulation "rapture" which it does not

The preachers who sing the MacDonald/Darby ruse have been hoodwinked by false teachers

And the Lord's pre-tribulation call is documented in scripture which was written long before MacDonald and Darby even existed

"There is no mention that the Church will be taken to Heaven in 2 Peter 3"

To bad you missed it .... the implication is certainly there

Your problem is that you have not connected a number of scriptures that spell the Lord's pre-tribulation call in plain view

But even more evident is your willingness to be deceived by the false teachers who refer to the same as a "lie" of the devil

Understand that the devil himself is a liar

Hard to believe that you have allowed someone to talk you out of the Lord's intent .... and into the devil's lair of the coming tribulation [Revelation 12:12]

And you need to notice that the pre-tribulation ecclesia are in this same short verse

In addition, know that my continued stand for spreading the truth on this matter is for all who read this forum ... so I am not just bantering with you

.... you have already expressed your disdain for the Lord's promise [Revelation 3:10] .... this alone should be enough to convince you, but there is so much more evidence in other related scriptures that only one who has been deceived by false teachers serving the devil could reject it

Straightshot said:

There is no way that anyone like Darby could have used the vision to promote a pre-tribulation "rapture" which it does not

Click to expand...

Lets do some history verification upon Darby's work.
Source:
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/2005_macpherson_pretrib-diehards.html

Since the 1970's stunning new data has been surfacing about the pretribulation rapture's long-covered-up beginnings in the 1800's.

In recent years several persons associated with Dallas Theological Seminary (which had long been pretribized) have reportedly gone to Britain to check on my research sources and then write books opposing my claims.

In 1990 an Ohio pastor told me that Dr. _____ _____, the most qualified DTS prof, traveled there and came back and wrote nothing! The pastor added that he and some others had a good laugh. But change was coming.

In 1993 Chuck Swindoll, who became DTS president after John Walvoord, stated: "I'm not sure we're going to make dispensationalism [the chief attraction of which is a pretrib rapture] a part of our marquee as we talk about our school." When asked if the word "dispensationalism" would disappear, he answered: "It may and perhaps it should" ("Christianity Today," Oct. 25, 1993)! But a few diehards (with the stubbornness of Iraqi insurgents and New Orleans looters) keep on milking their cash cow while continuing to cover up and twist the following historical facts about their latter-day, cult-like belief:

1825: British preacher Edward Irving revealed that he had been teaching some of dispensationalism's key aspects as early as late 1825. (John Darby-exalter R. A. Huebner has never even claimed to find any original prophetic idea in Darby before late 1826!)

1827-1830: Darby was still posttrib during these years. His 1827 paper had him waiting for only the posttrib "restitution of all things." After discussing in 1828 the "unity" of the church, he looked for only the Rev. 19 coming in 1829 and 1830.

1830: During the spring a young woman in Scotland, Margaret Macdonald, declared that she had discovered in the Bible what had never been seen by others: a rapture of "church" members described as a "pre-Antichrist" (or pretrib) event. Her words: "one taken and the other left" before "THE WICKED [Antichrist] be revealed." She was a partial rapturist seeing only part of the "church" raptured and the rest of the "church" left on earth. When she wrote that the "trial of the Church is from Antichrist," she meant the part of the church not included in her pretrib rapture. Leading partial rapturists including Pember and Govett have always applied the word "church" to the ones "left behind." Robert Norton, Irvingite historian and on-scene witness of Margaret's utterances, wrote that Margaret was the "first" to privately teach pretrib.

A September article in "The Morning Watch" (Irvingite journal) saw the "Philadelphia" church raptured before a "period of great tribulation" and the "Laodicea" church left on earth. Huebner's "Precious Truths" claimed that Philadelphia was seen raptured before only the "seventh vial" and not before "the great tribulation" even though the article writer added twice on following pages that this "period" was indeed "the great tribulation"! In the previous (June) issue the same writer had seen Philadelphia on earth until the final posttrib advent. In between these two issues, TMW writers had visited Margaret who explained her new "revelation" which was soon reflected on TMW pages without giving her credit! In December a published article by Darby was still defending the posttrib view!

1833: British lawyer Robert Baxter, an ex-Irvingite, wrote that the pretrib "delusion first appeared in Scotland" before it began to be taught in London the following year.

1834: A Darby letter referred to the new pretrib rapture view, stated that "the thoughts are new," and advocated the subtle introduction of it by writing "it would not be well to have it so clear"! Darby also called it the "new wine." Others who knew that pretrib was then a new view included other Plymouth Brethren, Irvingites, Margaret, and later 19th century historians such as Margaret Oliphant who referred to "a new revelation" in 1830 in western Scotland where Margaret Macdonald lived.

1837: Years after Darby supposedly had derived a distinction (or separation) between the "church" and "Israel," his 1837 article saw the church "going in with Him to the marriage, to wit, with Jerusalem and the Jews"!

1839: The first year Darby was clearly pretrib. His pretrib basis then (and during the next three decades) was Rev. 12:5's "man child" that is "caught up." But this "new" Darby teaching was actually a plagiarism of Edward Irving who had been using this verse for the same (pretrib) purpose since 1831!

1843: In a letter written from Switzerland, Darby referred to "the dissemination of truth and blessing...thus spreading on the right hand and on the left, without knowing whence it came or how it sprung up all of a sudden...." Here he gloated that others didn't know "whence" pretrib came or that he had advocated the subtle sneaking of the new pretrib view into existing groups (see "1834" above)!

1853: Darby's book "The Irrationalism of Infidelity" recalled his visit to Margaret Macdonald and her brothers in mid-1830. He remembered 23 minor details but carefully omitted the most important one: Margaret's teaching of a coming of Christ that would exempt believers from the great tribulation "judgments"----a detail that all others who visited her and then wrote accounts could easily remember! (It's obvious that Todd Strandberg's mother didn't soap his mouth enough because even though he knows better after the airing of "Open Letter to Todd Strandberg" on the internet, his falsehood-packed "Margaret MacDonald Who?" article on his "Rapture Ready" site continues to pollute minds by stating that I "have never been able to prove that Darby had ever heard of MacDonald or her vision"!)

1855: An article by eminent Brethren scholar S. P. Tregelles tied "Judaisers" to pretrib. But in an 1864 book he tied "Irving's Church" to pretrib. Both Huebner and Walvoord claimed that Tregelles contradicted himself, and Huebner charged Tregelles with "untruth and slander." But even William Kelly, Darby's editor, saw no contradiction and wrote, concerning "Judaising," that "nowhere is this so patent as in Irvingism"!

1861: Robert Norton, medical doctor and Irvingite, wrote that the "true origin" of pretrib had been "hidden and misrepresented." (This was about the time that Kelly was working towards the goal of elevating Darby and giving the false impression that Darby should be credited with the pretrib view.) Several pages later, in the same book, Norton revealed Margaret as the true originator of pretrib.

1863: In his "Five Letters" leading Brethren scholar Tregelles wrote that some Brethren had been unscrupulously issuing tracts by the thousands in which they changed the "words and doctrines" of "the Reformers and others" to give the impression that those ancient writers had actually been teaching the novel doctrines that some Darbyist Brethren were then circulating in the 1800's!

1864: Brethren scholar Tregelles charged fellow Brethren with changing even the words in ancient hymns: "Sometimes from a hymn being altered, writers appear to set forth a secret rapture of which they had never heard, or against which they have protested." I should add that in an 1865 letter Darby asked his editor to preserve the newer (pretrib) hymns and "correct the others," that is, the older (posttrib) ones!

1860's: From the 1860's to the 1880's William Kelly, editor of Darby's works, was busy putting together some volumes known as "The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby." Opposition to Darbyism had been increasing and Kelly was determined to fight it and continue to exalt Darby. His goal was to present a Darby that was prophetically "mature" long before he actually matured. He achieved this dishonesty with misleading words in brackets inside sentences in Darby's early works, and with footnotes that he "borrowed" from Darby's much later works when he was obviously more developed! Darby even gave this deviousness his blessing. In an 1865 letter to Kelly he wrote: "I should think that some of the Notes would require some revising....Even the sermons contain things I should not accept...." Kelly even flaunted his shameful manipulation in a footnote to Darby's 1830 article; the note said that "it was not worth while either suppressing or changing it."

More;
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/2005_macpherson_pretrib-diehards.html

Straightshot said:

"There is no mention that the Church will be taken to Heaven in 2 Peter 3"

To bad you missed it .... the implication is certainly there

Your problem is that you have not connected a number of scriptures that spell the Lord's pre-tribulation call in plain view

But even more evident is your willingness to be deceived by the false teachers who refer to the same as a "lie" of the devil

Understand that the devil himself is a liar

Hard to believe that you have allowed someone to talk you out of the Lord's intent .... and into the devil's lair of the coming tribulation [Revelation 12:12]

And you need to notice that the pre-tribulation ecclesia are in this same short verse

Click to expand...

Those who dwell in Heaven mentioned Revelation 12:12 are the angels,the twenty four elders ....
Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Straightshot said:

In addition, know that my continued stand for spreading the truth on this matter is for all who read this forum ... so I am not just bantering with you

.... you have already expressed your disdain for the Lord's promise [Revelation 3:10] .... this alone should be enough to convince you, but there is so much more evidence in other related scriptures that only one who has been deceived by false teachers serving the devil could reject it

Click to expand...

Can you show us only one verse coming from the Holy Bible saying textually that the Church will be made immortal and taken to heaven BEFORE the tribulation ?

No. She said nothing about a rapture at all. She simply explained the division in the world. That there are those who see with the eyes of THE SPIRIT and those who do not

When she spoke of Elijah and seeing the things which can only be seen by Gods Spirit she was simply likening herself to Elijah and others who had the Spirit of God living in them from those who do not

That is all she did.

miknik5 said:

No. She said nothing about a rapture at all. She simply explained the division in the world. That there are those who see with the eyes of THE SPIRIT and those who do not

Click to expand...

Her reference to Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire and her reference to one should be taken and the other left mean the rapture ie the Pre-tribulation rapture.

Plus she is lying when she said that the sign of the Coming of Jesus is not known an can be seen only with the Spiritual eye, not by the natural eye.
Read it
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/1975_macpherson_incredible-coverup.html

Riberra said:

Her reference to Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire and her reference to one should be taken and the other left mean the rapture.

Plus she is lying when she said that the sign of the Coming of Jesus is not known an can be seen only with Spiritual eye.

Click to expand...

I edited my post. I know she referenced Elijah. I suggest you go back to the story of Elijah and Elisha.

Elijah was a picture of Christ ascending. Not the church

Because you need to remember the "msntle" was passed to Elisha

If this was a picture of the rapture there would no longer be the mantle passing to anyone

miknik5 said:

I edited my post. I know she referenced Elijah. I suggest you go back to the story of Elijah and Elisha.

Elijah was a picture of Christ ascending. Not the church

Because you need to remember the "msntle" was passed to Elisha

If this was a picture of the rapture there would no longer be the mantle passing to anyone

Click to expand...

What matters is that Darby have taken her account and started to preach the false doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture .

Here some history facts about Darby's work

1825: British preacher Edward Irving revealed that he had been teaching some of dispensationalism's key aspects as early as late 1825. (John Darby-exalter R. A. Huebner has never even claimed to find any original prophetic idea in Darby before late 1826!)

1827-1830: Darby was still posttrib during these years. His 1827 paper had him waiting for only the posttrib "restitution of all things." After discussing in 1828 the "unity" of the church, he looked for only the Rev. 19 coming in 1829 and 1830.

1830: During the spring a young woman in Scotland, Margaret Macdonald, declared that she had discovered in the Bible what had never been seen by others: a rapture of "church" members described as a "pre-Antichrist" (or pretrib) event. Her words: "one taken and the other left" before "THE WICKED [Antichrist] be revealed." She was a partial rapturist seeing only part of the "church" raptured and the rest of the "church" left on earth. When she wrote that the "trial of the Church is from Antichrist," she meant the part of the church not included in her pretrib rapture. Leading partial rapturists including Pember and Govett have always applied the word "church" to the ones "left behind." Robert Norton, Irvingite historian and on-scene witness of Margaret's utterances, wrote that Margaret was the "first" to privately teach pretrib.

A September article in "The Morning Watch" (Irvingite journal) saw the "Philadelphia" church raptured before a "period of great tribulation" and the "Laodicea" church left on earth. Huebner's "Precious Truths" claimed that Philadelphia was seen raptured before only the "seventh vial" and not before "the great tribulation" even though the article writer added twice on following pages that this "period" was indeed "the great tribulation"! In the previous (June) issue the same writer had seen Philadelphia on earth until the final posttrib advent. In between these two issues, TMW writers had visited Margaret who explained her new "revelation" which was soon reflected on TMW pages without giving her credit! In December a published article by Darby was still defending the posttrib view!

1833: British lawyer Robert Baxter, an ex-Irvingite, wrote that the pretrib "delusion first appeared in Scotland" before it began to be taught in London the following year.

1834: A Darby letter referred to the new pretrib rapture view, stated that "the thoughts are new," and advocated the subtle introduction of it by writing "it would not be well to have it so clear"! Darby also called it the "new wine." Others who knew that pretrib was then a new view included other Plymouth Brethren, Irvingites, Margaret, and later 19th century historians such as Margaret Oliphant who referred to "a new revelation" in 1830 in western Scotland where Margaret Macdonald lived.

1837: Years after Darby supposedly had derived a distinction (or separation) between the "church" and "Israel," his 1837 article saw the church "going in with Him to the marriage, to wit, with Jerusalem and the Jews"!

1839: The first year Darby was clearly pretrib. His pretrib basis then (and during the next three decades) was Rev. 12:5's "man child" that is "caught up." But this "new" Darby teaching was actually a plagiarism of Edward Irving who had been using this verse for the same (pretrib) purpose since 1831!

1843: In a letter written from Switzerland, Darby referred to "the dissemination of truth and blessing...thus spreading on the right hand and on the left, without knowing whence it came or how it sprung up all of a sudden...." Here he gloated that others didn't know "whence" pretrib came or that he had advocated the subtle sneaking of the new pretrib view into existing groups (see "1834" above)!

1853: Darby's book "The Irrationalism of Infidelity" recalled his visit to Margaret Macdonald and her brothers in mid-1830. He remembered 23 minor details but carefully omitted the most important one: Margaret's teaching of a coming of Christ that would exempt believers from the great tribulation "judgments"----a detail that all others who visited her and then wrote accounts could easily remember! (It's obvious that Todd Strandberg's mother didn't soap his mouth enough because even though he knows better after the airing of "Open Letter to Todd Strandberg" on the internet, his falsehood-packed "Margaret MacDonald Who?" article on his "Rapture Ready" site continues to pollute minds by stating that I "have never been able to prove that Darby had ever heard of MacDonald or her vision"!)

1855: An article by eminent Brethren scholar S. P. Tregelles tied "Judaisers" to pretrib. But in an 1864 book he tied "Irving's Church" to pretrib. Both Huebner and Walvoord claimed that Tregelles contradicted himself, and Huebner charged Tregelles with "untruth and slander." But even William Kelly, Darby's editor, saw no contradiction and wrote, concerning "Judaising," that "nowhere is this so patent as in Irvingism"!

1861: Robert Norton, medical doctor and Irvingite, wrote that the "true origin" of pretrib had been "hidden and misrepresented." (This was about the time that Kelly was working towards the goal of elevating Darby and giving the false impression that Darby should be credited with the pretrib view.) Several pages later, in the same book, Norton revealed Margaret as the true originator of pretrib.

1863: In his "Five Letters" leading Brethren scholar Tregelles wrote that some Brethren had been unscrupulously issuing tracts by the thousands in which they changed the "words and doctrines" of "the Reformers and others" to give the impression that those ancient writers had actually been teaching the novel doctrines that some Darbyist Brethren were then circulating in the 1800's!

1864: Brethren scholar Tregelles charged fellow Brethren with changing even the words in ancient hymns: "Sometimes from a hymn being altered, writers appear to set forth a secret rapture of which they had never heard, or against which they have protested." I should add that in an 1865 letter Darby asked his editor to preserve the newer (pretrib) hymns and "correct the others," that is, the older (posttrib) ones!

1860's: From the 1860's to the 1880's William Kelly, editor of Darby's works, was busy putting together some volumes known as "The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby." Opposition to Darbyism had been increasing and Kelly was determined to fight it and continue to exalt Darby. His goal was to present a Darby that was prophetically "mature" long before he actually matured. He achieved this dishonesty with misleading words in brackets inside sentences in Darby's early works, and with footnotes that he "borrowed" from Darby's much later works when he was obviously more developed! Darby even gave this deviousness his blessing. In an 1865 letter to Kelly he wrote: "I should think that some of the Notes would require some revising....Even the sermons contain things I should not accept...." Kelly even flaunted his shameful manipulation in a footnote to Darby's 1830 article; the note said that "it was not worth while either suppressing or changing it."

More;
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/2005_macpherson_pretrib-diehards.html

In the story of Elijah. Elijah is told that he was going to be taken up. But before he is told this God tells him to anoint Elisha

Now Elisha did not fully understand whose spirit was in Elijah when he asked Elijah for a double portion of his (that is Elijah) spirit

Elijah knew whose spirit was in him. He didn't sit there and explain to Elisha he just said this is a difficult thing but

IF YOU SEE ME ASCEND

it shall be

Elisha saw "His Father" ascend and when the mantle was passed and only when the mantle was passed did Elisha then understand whose Spirit was in him

He struck the waters and passed through and said

"Where is the spirit of God now"

Not because he didn't know but because he did.



.

miknik5 said:

In the story of Elijah. Elijah is told that he was going to be taken up.

Click to expand...

Lets clarify a point...do you believe that the Church will be made immortal and taken to Heaven BEFORE the Tribulation /or do you believe that the Church will be made immortal and caught up to meet Jesus in the AIR UNTO HIS COMING ?
The Bible preach the latter.

Why not pray the LORD to have mercy on you so that you rest in peace before the tribulation!!! :/