Equity or Equality?

[98cwitr]

Which is fair? Which is right and just? But most importantly, which path will America take into the future?

 

[Pommer]

The Constitution only deals with the Law: “equality” can be enshrined in the US Code.
“Equity” must come from the society under that Constitution, we have to come to a consensus as to when we have achieved “equality”.

Trying to use government solely to reach equity is silly.

 

[Ken-1122]

Which is fair? Which is right and just? But most importantly, which path will America take into the future?

Equality is fair and just. Which path will America take? Probably the wrong path

 

[Speedwell]

Definition of terms would be helpful.

 

[98cwitr]

Definition of terms would be helpful.

Equality: equal opportunity for everyone
Equity: equal outcomes for everyone

 

[Speedwell]

Equality: equal opportunity for everyone
Equity: equal outcomes for everyone

In that case, the discussion is moot.

 

[98cwitr]

In that case, the discussion is moot.

Is it though? Michigan schools are all about some equity (the word "equal" never appears in this document, equity/equitable appears 9 times): https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdcr/Roseville_Public_Schools_Equity_Strategic_Plan_703422_7.pdf

This is a very important discussion indeed.

 

[Speedwell]

Is it though? Michigan schools are all about some equity (the word "equal" never appears in this document, equity/equitable appears 9 times): https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdcr/Roseville_Public_Schools_Equity_Strategic_Plan_703422_7.pdf

This is a very important discussion indeed.

Their definition of equity is different than yours.

"Equity: Accepting and valuing each individual for who they are and providing the structures, environment and resources each person needs to reach their greatest potential."

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Is it though? Michigan schools are all about some equity (the word "equal" never appears in this document, equity/equitable appears 9 times): https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdcr/Roseville_Public_Schools_Equity_Strategic_Plan_703422_7.pdf

This is a very important discussion indeed.

The school defines what they mean by equity in the document you linked:

Our Equity Vision Roseville Area Schools is committed to ensuring an equitable and respectful learning environment for every student, family, and staff member regardless of: race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, ability, home or first language, religion, national origin, age, physical appearance.

Equity Accepting and valuing each individual for who they are and providing the structures, environment and resources each person needs to reach their greatest potential.

...equitable learning environment

Their definition seems to have a different definition and/or applies differently than the way you are portraying it.

EDIT: Ha! speedwell beat me to it.

 

[98cwitr]

Their definition of equity is different than yours.

"Equity: Accepting and valuing each individual for who they are and providing the structures, environment and resources each person needs to reach their greatest potential."

Which, in practice, results in inequality in order to achieve an equalness of outcome; and the approach is partially dealing with immutable qualities of the students. They want to address the issues of poverty, drop out rates, and lack of proficiency, but will not acknowledge or address that the problems with those things are a direct result of parental encouragement and involvement at home. As my wife is an ex-teacher in an inner city school, you knew which kids had parents that fostered educational achievements and priorities versus those who did not; and this spanned race, gender and economic status.

 

[Speedwell]

Which, in practice, results in inequality in order to achieve an equalness of outcome; and the approach is partially dealing with immutable qualities of the students. They want to address the issues of poverty, drop out rates, and lack of proficiency, but will not acknowledge or address that the problems with those things are a direct result of parental encouragement and involvement at home. As my wife is an ex-teacher in an inner city school, you knew which kids had parents that fostered educational achievements and priorities versus those who did not; and this spanned race, gender and economic status.

And only your wife knows this, but not any of the teachers or administrators of this school district?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Which, in practice, results in inequality in order to achieve an equalness of outcome; and the approach is partially dealing with immutable qualities of the students. They want to address the issues of poverty, drop out rates, and lack of proficiency, but will not acknowledge or address that the problems with those things are a direct result of parental encouragement and involvement at home. As my wife is an ex-teacher in an inner city school, you knew which kids had parents that fostered educational achievements and priorities versus those who did not; and this spanned race, gender and economic status.

What a huge assumption. That's certainly a factor and it's addressed, albeit, indirectly in focus area 2:

FOCUS AREA 2 Improve communication and genuine engagement with families and communities, especially with our underrepresented communities

The school can't force parents to be everything they need to be to ensure the students success. Everyone is facing different challenges that the school can't always be aware of or have any control over. So, while they can encourage parental involvement but can't control it they can focus on other areas known to contribute to student success in ways they can actually control while they actually have the students.

This whole "zero sum" mentality, that helping one group of students in ways specific to them somehow deprives other students who don't need the same level of attention is toxic and needs to die.

 

[98cwitr]

And only your wife knows this, but not any of the teachers or administrators of this school district?

Oh no, it's common knowledge and class after class, year and year it's quite realized. They just don't feel they have the authority to remind parents they are responsible for their child's education just as much, if not moreso, than the school system's.

 

[98cwitr]

This whole "zero sum" mentality, that helping one group of students in ways specific to them somehow deprives other students who don't need the same level of attention is toxic and needs to die.

I think this proves my point: There are many who unbashfully will champion unequal treatment of students. Thus, some children are at best ignored, at worst dragged down, so that there is equality of outcome (ie: "equity").

 

[Speedwell]

Oh no, it's common knowledge and class after class, year and year it's quite realized. They just don't feel they have the authority to remind parents they are responsible for their child's education just as much, if not moreso, than the school system's.

"FOCUS AREA 2 Improve communication and genuine engagement with families and communities, especially with our underrepresented communities"

 

[98cwitr]

"FOCUS AREA 2 Improve communication and genuine engagement with families and communities, especially with our underrepresented communities"

last clause says it all. Singling people out whom you deem and decide are "underrepresented" is discrimination.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

I think this proves my point: There are many who unbashfully will champion unequal treatment of students. Thus, some children are at best ignored, at worst dragged down, so that there is equality of outcome (ie: "equity").

And this proves mine. It's not a zero sum game.

 

[Speedwell]

I think this proves my point: There are many who unbashfully will champion unequal treatment of students. Thus, some children are at best ignored, at worst dragged down, so that there is equality of outcome (ie: "equity").

You're still forcing your own definition onto the school district, which defines "equity" as each student reaching his full potential, not equality of achievement. These are children, and some will need more help in some areas than others to do it. There is no indication that they believe all potentials are the same--which is what you imply.

 

[98cwitr]

And this proves mine. It's not a zero sum game.

You're right...it's not a game at all. These are children's lives we're talking about.

 

[SummerMadness]

Equality: equal opportunity for everyone
Equity: equal outcomes for everyone

People like to use the dictionary when discussing other topics, none of your definitions appear in the dictionary.

equality

1. the quality or state of being equal

equal

1. to be equal to

• especially : to be identical in value to

1. equalize (archaic)
2. to make or produce something equal to

equity

1. • a: justice according to natural law or right specifically : freedom from bias or favoritism
   • b: something that is equitable
2. • a: the money value of a property or of an interest in a property in excess of claims or liens against it
   • b: the common stock of a corporation
   • c: a risk interest or ownership right in property
   • d: a right, claim, or interest existing or valid in equity
3. • a: a system of law originating in the English chancery and comprising a settled and formal body of legal and procedural rules and doctrines that supplement, aid, or override common and statute law and are designed to protect rights and enforce duties fixed by substantive law
   • b: trial or remedial justice under or by the rules and doctrines of equity
   • c: a body of legal doctrines and rules developed to enlarge, supplement, or override a narrow rigid system of law