Equal authority of Tradition to Scripture

[Asinner]

One exalted their own self, and one looked for their mercy elsewhere.. it's sort of like this.. who do you know on these boards that constantly claims to be the true church over and over again.. ?

It is you, though, that condemns. No Orthodox person has ever stated that you are not saved, Etide, have they? Whereas, you have constantly mocked our faith.

I am very happy for you that you have such great faith in Jesus Christ. My faith is weak and I tremble at the approaching judgement seat.

I can, I believe God, I don't believe the claims of the church which claims to be the church but can not assure me of anything..

My understanding is nothing. This is why I will climb aboard the Ark and trust in It to carry me over the raging waters to Salvation. Although I am aboard, I can still choose to jump off and swim. Perhaps I will make it . . .

God Bless

 

[ETide]

It is you, though, that condemns.

Here is yet another FALSE CLAIM. Show even ONE TIME where I have condemned you or any other person here..

GO AHEAD, please.. you've made the statement, either verify it or retract it.

No Orthodox person has ever stated that you are not saved, Etide, have they? Whereas, you have constantly mocked our faith.

I've been told that it is presumptious to say or believe that I am saved, and I've been told that I have left the narrow path because of this.. BUT, let me make it clear.. that does not bother me in the least.. seriously, it doesn't..

AND, if my assertions that the orthodox church is not the LORD's church is mocking your faith, then that's too bad.. because I can speak against it as being wrong.. and I will speak against it as being wrong.. because it is wrong, and I'd be willing to bet that many of you know it..

I am very happy for you that you have such great faith in Jesus Christ. My faith is weak and I tremble at the approaching judgement seat.

Perhaps the reason for your faith being weak is the object of it.. your belief that the orthodox church is HIS church.. no wonder it's weak Asinner.. you need to understand what HIS church truly is and place your faith and trust in CHRIST, and in Christ alone..

If you want to persist in the lie that the orthodox church is HIS church, then it's no wonder to me that your faith is weak..

That may sound harsh.. although I truly believe with all my heart that until you can free yourself from this bondage of religion, then that's what it's going to be..

My understanding is nothing. This is why I will climb aboard the Ark and trust in It to carry me over the raging waters to Salvation. Although I am aboard, I can still choose to jump off and swim. Perhaps I will make it . . .

God Bless

The Ark is CHRIST Asinner, not the orthodox church.

 

[Asinner]

Here is yet another FALSE CLAIM. Show even ONE TIME where I have condemned you or any other person here..

GO AHEAD, please.. you've made the statement, either verify it or retract it.

IF you want to pretend that your orthodox church is the church of God, then be our guest, it simply exemplifies your complete lack of understanding the scriptural aspects of the LORD's church.

The word of God is your Tradition.. you must be very proud of it.


BUT, you're Christ centered.. that's funny Iak.


Here's the true church of God who can assure no person of their salvation,

then it's no wonder that your leader is called His Highest Holiness, or something ridiculous like that..

and the self proclaimed orthodox church still ain't got it right..


and YOU Call that motivation LOVE for the LORD.. ? ? It sounds more like LOVE for my orthodox church and that I'm in the 'true' church..

. as if your church is His church..

although that ain't happening until you loose yourself from the blindness of the orthodox church being HIS church.. so again.. that simply ain't happenin.. those that claim that they can see can't see..

some doctrine that the Orthodox church teaches..

Claiming that the ORTHODOX CHURCH is 'THE' church of God is not only triumphalistic, it's scriptural ignorance at best..

and when do you ever speak to the glory and majesty of our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ..? ? I haven't heard that at all from any of you folks..

If your assurance was IN CHRIST, then you would KNOW that you have eternal life in Him.. that's if Christ is in you of course..

you folks claim that you're born again by God when some man sprinkles some water over an infant.. so it's no wonder that there's a lack of assurance right from the start.

It's also partly because you folks believe that you're placed there (into Christ) in water baptism as well.

Your church can't assure your salvation.. it rejects the millennial kingdom of Christ on this earth and teaches that this is it.. it teaches that water baptism is necessary in order to be saved when water baptism is for those who believe and are saved.. and it also teaches that people are born again when they are baptized in water.. it believes that bread gets turned into God.. you say that God transcends all things and yet you can confine Him to a piece of bread..

This is not the teaching of the scriptures.. it's the Tradition of men..

You'll never rise above that standard.. and that's your choice..

You can not teach from the scriptures that your orthodox church is the church of God.. it's simply what you have been taught and have experienced in your life.. although it has nothing to do with the scriptural church of God.

And yet you folks believe that bread is turned into the Almighty God of this universe.. hey, that's your Tradition, you're more than welcome to it.. many others do not subscribe to your church and its Tradition, so what..?

I've been told that it is presumptious to say or believe that I am saved, and I've been told that I have left the narrow path because of this.. BUT, let me make it clear.. that does not bother me in the least.. seriously, it doesn't..

What I said was that if by faith, all have assurance, including the Orthodox and Catholic (for we have some faith), then that makes the way broad, does it not? Every Christian has faith, to some degree, Etide. Your assertion then is that because we have faith, we have that assurance of salvation. That would negate there being a narrow way. THAT was what I said.

AND, if my assertions that the orthodox church is not the LORD's church is mocking your faith, then that's too bad.. because I can speak against it as being wrong.. and I will speak against it as being wrong.. because it is wrong, and I'd be willing to bet that many of you know it..

Perhaps the reason for your faith being weak is the object of it.. your belief that the orthodox church is HIS church.. no wonder it's weak Asinner.. you need to understand what HIS church truly is and place your faith and trust in CHRIST, and in Christ alone..

I do.

If you want to persist in the lie that the orthodox church is HIS church, then it's no wonder to me that your faith is weak..

We know where the Church is, not where it isn't. We do not know where God's Grace manifests itself. You, however, say that it is not in the Orthodox Church.

That may sound harsh.. although I truly believe with all my heart that until you can free yourself from this bondage of religion, then that's what it's going to be..

I am weak and sinful; yet, He is merciful and forgiving. THAT is freedom.

The Ark is CHRIST Asinner, not the orthodox church.

Yes. The Church is Christ.

God Bless

 

[ETide]

IF you want to pretend that your orthodox church is the church of God, then be our guest, it simply exemplifies your complete lack of understanding the scriptural aspects of the LORD's church.

The word of God is your Tradition.. you must be very proud of it.


BUT, you're Christ centered.. that's funny Iak.


Here's the true church of God who can assure no person of their salvation,

then it's no wonder that your leader is called His Highest Holiness, or something ridiculous like that..

and the self proclaimed orthodox church still ain't got it right..


and YOU Call that motivation LOVE for the LORD.. ? ? It sounds more like LOVE for my orthodox church and that I'm in the 'true' church..

. as if your church is His church..

although that ain't happening until you loose yourself from the blindness of the orthodox church being HIS church.. so again.. that simply ain't happenin.. those that claim that they can see can't see..

some doctrine that the Orthodox church teaches..

Claiming that the ORTHODOX CHURCH is 'THE' church of God is not only triumphalistic, it's scriptural ignorance at best..

and when do you ever speak to the glory and majesty of our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ..? ? I haven't heard that at all from any of you folks..

If your assurance was IN CHRIST, then you would KNOW that you have eternal life in Him.. that's if Christ is in you of course..

you folks claim that you're born again by God when some man sprinkles some water over an infant.. so it's no wonder that there's a lack of assurance right from the start.

It's also partly because you folks believe that you're placed there (into Christ) in water baptism as well.

Your church can't assure your salvation.. it rejects the millennial kingdom of Christ on this earth and teaches that this is it.. it teaches that water baptism is necessary in order to be saved when water baptism is for those who believe and are saved.. and it also teaches that people are born again when they are baptized in water.. it believes that bread gets turned into God.. you say that God transcends all things and yet you can confine Him to a piece of bread..

This is not the teaching of the scriptures.. it's the Tradition of men..

You'll never rise above that standard.. and that's your choice..

You can not teach from the scriptures that your orthodox church is the church of God.. it's simply what you have been taught and have experienced in your life.. although it has nothing to do with the scriptural church of God.

And yet you folks believe that bread is turned into the Almighty God of this universe.. hey, that's your Tradition, you're more than welcome to it.. many others do not subscribe to your church and its Tradition, so what..?

If my comments are taken as condemnation to any person, then let's simply add all of your comments, and the comments of all the orthodox folks here who have told me similar things..

Are you willing to do that.. or does it only apply to those comments which disagree with your particular perspective..?

 

[Asinner]

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If my comments are taken as condemnation to any person, then let's simply add all of your comments, and the comments of all the orthodox folks here who have told me similar things..

Are you willing to do that.. or does it only apply to those comments which disagree with your particular perspective..?

It has continually been stated on this thread by the Orthodox, that we do not know where the Church IS NOT. You have repeatedly stated that you know that the Church IS NOT the Orthodox Church. Do you see the difference?

God Bless

 

[ETide]

It has continually been stated on this thread by the Orthodox, that we do not know where the Church IS NOT. You have repeatedly stated that you know that the Church IS NOT the Orthodox Church. Do you see the difference?

God Bless

I've been told that I've left the narrow path because of my being sure of my salvation. That I have been deceived for thinking like this..

According to you, that's condemnation.. so be it..

The orthodox church members have condemned me as you see condemnation..

I'll be clear though Asinner.. that doesn't bother me in the least.. if you want to cry condemnation etc.. or whatever, then go right ahead.. take it to the mods if you want.. but don't forget to point that sword inward too.. because if your perspective of condemnation holds true, then we're all guilty of it.

 

[Asinner]

I've been told that I've left the narrow path because of my being sure of my salvation. That I have been deceived for thinking like this..

According to you, that's condemnation.. so be it..

The orthodox church members have condemned me as you see condemnation..

I'll be clear though Asinner.. that doesn't bother me in the least.. if you want to cry condemnation etc.. or whatever, then go right ahead.. take it to the mods if you want.. but don't forget to point that sword inward too.. because if your perspective of condemnation holds true, then we're all guilty of it.

You are making false accusations. No one is the Orthodox Church has condemned you. His Grace is everywhere and we rejoice in this!
My statement that the OSAS doctrine goes against scripture, broad vs. narrow, is not a condemning statement. I was pointing out the fallacy of your argument (or at least attempting to).

God Bless

 

[ETide]

It has continually been stated on this thread by the Orthodox, that we do not know where the Church IS NOT. You have repeatedly stated that you know that the Church IS NOT the Orthodox Church. Do you see the difference?

God Bless

This demands correction, although it should be obvious.

When I say that the orthodox church is not 'the' church, that means that it is not Christ's church as it is described in the scriptures.. AND, according to your own admission here..you agree with that, because you know that you DO NOT know where His church is not..

HIS church is not confined to the orthodox church..

SO.. it's clear that the orthodox church is not His church as it is described in scripture, because His church is the body of Christ, inclusive of ALL members which HE has set into place as it pleases Himself.

THEREFORE, You, nor I, can speak for the church of God in its entirety..

That should be obvious as stated, although with the way folks read things around here.. it bears a little further explanation perhaps.

 

[racer]

Triple immersion has always been the preferred method; however, there will be times when the preference, like having cold, living water, with a triple immersion will be unattainable (an emergency baptism on an elderly person in Arizona, for example) . The thief on the cross, obviously, could not receive proper baptism; therefore, God baptized him in blood. There is a difference when someone receives a baptism in the Church that is not "preferred", over the person that refuses the baptism of the Church because of pride. It is God who baptizes us and He has given us a proper method in which to receive His Grace. I will never say that His Grace is absent in baptisms outside of the Church; but to outright reject the baptism as unnecessary, is to me, rejecting one of Christ's most Holy Covenants.

God Bless

Okay. That's some nice information for general purposes, and I guess in a way it addressed my post. I guess I just naturally expect it to conflict with my post. But, it didn't.

I realize that there is another whole conversation going on about the necessity of baptism with water. However, I've tried desperately to stay out of it.

 

[ETide]

You are making false accusations. No one is the Orthodox Church has condemned you. His Grace is everywhere and we rejoice in this!
My statement that the OSAS doctrine goes against scripture, broad vs. narrow, is not a condemning statement. I was pointing out the fallacy of your argument (or at least attempting to).

God Bless

OK Asinner.. perhaps you may want to revise your definition of condemnation then, because if it's as you say.. then you and other members of the orthodox church have spoken against the faith of others.. (even as you have done right here in claiming that osas goes against scripture, yet you will not give your perspective on 1 John 5)

Again.. who cares.. this is like children arguing back and forth.. I can't believe that I waste time getting into these types of conversations rather than simply sharing aspects of the glory and majesty of my Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ..

shame on me for that..

 

[Asinner]

Okay. That's some nice information for general purposes, and I guess in a way it addressed my post. I guess I just naturally expect it to conflict with my post. But, it didn't.

I

I'm glad I was able to surprise you.

 

[Asinner]

OK Asinner.. perhaps you may want to revise your definition of condemnation then, because if it's as you say.. then you and other members of the orthodox church have spoken against the faith of others.. (even as you have done right here in claiming that osas goes against scripture, yet you will not give your perspective on 1 John 5)

Again.. who cares.. this is like children arguing back and forth.. I can't believe that I waste time getting into these types of conversations rather than simply sharing aspects of the glory and majesty of my Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ..

shame on me for that..

Well just leave it at mockery then . . . In whatever way I have offended you, Etide, or mocked your faith, or spoke carelessly, I pray your forgiveness.

God Bless

 

[ETide]

Well just leave it at mockery then . . . In whatever way I have offended you, Etide, or mocked your faith, or spoke carelessly, I pray your forgiveness.

God Bless

No need to ask for my forgiveness Asinner.. you have not offended me at all. I simply want to point out to you that you folks are often no different in what you may accuse others of.. that's all.

These things do not offend me.. perhaps I offend others.. and these things get offensive by their very nature at times.. this should not be our intent, it is often the result, although it should not be the intention.

So I'll ask forgiveness from you if I have offended you, rather than trying my best to share the aspects of my faith, even if there's disagreement in things.

 

[Asinner]

No need to ask for my forgiveness Asinner.. you have not offended me at all. I simply want to point out to you that you folks are often no different in what you may accuse others of.. that's all.

These things do not offend me.. perhaps I offend others.. and these things get offensive by their very nature at times.. this should not be our intent, it is often the result, although it should not be the intention.

So I'll ask forgiveness from you if I have offended you, rather than trying my best to share the aspects of my faith, even if there's disagreement in things.

God Bless you, Etide.

I make no excuses on my defense of the Orthodox Church. I believe it is the Church of Christ and I have stated why many times. It breaks my heart when I hear people making a mockery of the Eucharist or any Sacrament of the Church. To me, this is same as blaspheming the Spirit of God, for it is God who is in the Sacraments. Etide, I would be very careful of speaking against the Orthodox Church in the manner you have. I say this out of love for you.

God Bless

 

[ETide]

God Bless you, Etide.

I make no excuses on my defense of the Orthodox Church. I believe it is the Church of Christ and I have stated why many times.

Thank you Asinner, may God bless you too, enriching you in all things through His beloved Son, our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ.

As for the church of God, you admit that it is not confined to the orthodox church, and this is the truth.. because the church of God is the people whom He has blessed in His Son and sealed with the holy Spirit of promise. It has nothing to do with any place we attend, or assemble ourselves together.. it is the assembly itself, the body of Christ.. although even this is His body in part, not in its entirety.

It breaks my heart when I hear people making a mockery of the Eucharist or any Sacrament of the Church. To me, this is same as blaspheming the Spirit of God, for it is God who is in the Sacraments. Etide, I would be very careful of speaking against the Orthodox Church in the manner you have. I say this out of love for you.

God Bless

How do you think others feel when they're told that they're presumptious for knowing that they are safe and secure in Christ.. that once saved IN CHRIST means exactly that..? I've told you that it doesn't bother me so much, although I do speak out for the truth of the gospel to the very best of my God given ability as there are perhaps many who read these threads and consider these things.

Just because your assembly does not teach that you can have full assurance of salvation in Christ, that doesn't make it true.. because in my estimation, which I enjoy sharing, that is abundantly clear. AND I will continue to share those aspects of the truth as long as I am able to serve Christ Jesus.