Episcopal membership question

RickardoHolmes

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Greetings Brethren

I wondered if there were any others here who, like myself, attend and identify with the Episcopal church, but have never undergone formal membership, confirmation. (I was baptized in a different denomination long ago)
I prefer the Episcopal church, will often go out of my way for the High Mass

Earlier this week, I was able to do a mid -day Mass at the church where I have been attending off and on for several years. It came to my realization that the priest there does not even know my name. And that is fine with me. Not everyone has to know me.

I have no desire to vote or hold office or even assist with the service. I do donate money. There are no volunteer opportunities as far as I know, but funding is something appreciated in most churches

Just wondered if there was anyone else who for whatever reason attends the Episcopal church but is not an official "member."
 

PloverWing

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My husband is a lifelong Baptist, but has been attending an Episcopal church with me and our children for the last 30 years. When we moved to the town where we now live, we tried the option of alternating Sundays -- one week in a Baptist church, the next in an Episcopal church -- but he couldn't find a local Baptist church that he liked, so we settled into going to my Episcopal church every week. He's very well-known and very welcome at our church, and I think most people don't know he's not an official member.
 
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FireDragon76

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I talked to an Episcopal priest about this once years ago and he acted like it was more of a formality, in my case it would involve confirmation by one of their bishops. But he told me "you already are a member in every way that really counts", refering to my own baptism as a child in a Methodist church.

Lots of people go to the Episcopal Church without actually being Episcopalians. The theologian Stanley Hauerwas is technically a Methodist but he goes to an Episcopal church.
 
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Arcangl86

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While confirmation/reception is still an official rite in the Prayer Book, the canons have been amended over the years to pretty much only required confirmation if you are seeking ordination. I do wonder why you don't want to be able to vote if you are part of a community you identify with.
 
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mark46

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I presume that you weren't confirmed in the Methodist church as a child. We do not re-confirm Orthodox, Catholics or Methodists. Should they wish, they are "received" into the church by the bishop at the same time as those who are being confirmed.

I talked to an Episcopal priest about this once years ago and he acted like it was more of a formality, in my case it would involve confirmation by one of their bishops. But he told me "you already are a member in every way that really counts", refering to my own baptism as a child in a Methodist church.

Lots of people go to the Episcopal Church without actually being Episcopalians. The theologian Stanley Hauerwas is technically a Methodist but he goes to an Episcopal church.
 
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FireDragon76

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I presume that you weren't confirmed in the Methodist church as a child. We do not re-confirm Orthodox, Catholics or Methodists. Should they wish, they are "received" into the church by the bishop at the same time as those who are being confirmed.

I was indeed confirmed. Methodist confirmation is not accepted by Anglicans because Methodists bishops do not have apostolic succession according to Anglicans (and frankly I don't think Methodist ecclessiology depends on it anyways, I never heard anything like that growing up. I didn't even know we had bishops, they were called superintendents back then). I was told I would have to be confirmed by a bishop, so that lead me to pause and not immediately decide.
 
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mark46

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I would have thought that the agreements between TEC and UMC would allow Methodists to be received. It seems to be true for ELCA.

Guidelines for Reception and Confirmation for Persons Joining the Episcopal Church

Thank you for the clarification.

I was indeed confirmed. Methodist confirmation is not accepted by Anglicans because Methodists bishops do not have apostolic succession according to Anglicans (and frankly I don't think Methodist ecclessiology depends on it anyways, I never heard anything like that growing up. I didn't even know we had bishops, they were called superintendents back then). I was told I would have to be confirmed by a bishop, so that lead me to pause and not immediately decide.
 
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FireDragon76

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I am an Evangelical Lutheran now. I was received through confession of faith. The ELCA does not require confirmation to be a member, and it does recognize Methodist confirmations. Confirmation is not a sacrament in our church, and we do not recognize the Episcopalian notion of apostolic succession as a necessary mark of the Church. We have a different ecclessiology.
 
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Paidiske

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The theology and praxis of confirmation is, to put it kindly, a little fuzzy for Anglicans. I do not believe we would insist on confirmation instead of episcopal reception in practice in my diocese, whether or not someone had been confirmed in another tradition (or whether or not we considered their bishops to have valid apostolic succession).
 
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FireDragon76

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The theology and praxis of confirmation is, to put it kindly, a little fuzzy for Anglicans. I do not believe we would insist on confirmation instead of episcopal reception in practice in my diocese, whether or not someone had been confirmed in another tradition (or whether or not we considered their bishops to have valid apostolic succession).

It's fuzzy for just about any reformation era church. We keep it around, I believe, because it's become a sort of cultural rite of passage to mark one as an adult Lutheran (even in relatively irreligious Sweden, many people still go through it, even though they rarely go to church otherwise). I believe it's only really harmful when we make too much of it, but from my perspective its strictly adiaphora.
 
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Deegie

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We tend toward reception over confirmation as a pastoral choice around here. The TEC canon allows for reception of anyone who has made "a mature public commitment in another Church". Confirming someone who has already been confirmed in another tradition seems to me to send the message that the previous one didn't count. Occasionally, that might be the appropriate choice but it normally isn't.

And why do we keep it around? At least in TEC, the way I remember hearing the story is because the bishops refused to let it go. There apparently was significant energy around removing it during the revision process which led to the 1979 BCP but bishops feared losing that way of connecting with their congregations. I for one am glad we still have it, even if it is fuzzy (which is a good choice of word). It's been called a rite seeking a theology, and I don't think that's too far off.
 
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PloverWing

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And why do we keep it around? At least in TEC, the way I remember hearing the story is because the bishops refused to let it go. There apparently was significant energy around removing it during the revision process which led to the 1979 BCP but bishops feared losing that way of connecting with their congregations. I for one am glad we still have it, even if it is fuzzy (which is a good choice of word). It's been called a rite seeking a theology, and I don't think that's too far off.

I didn't know that about the discussions preceding the 1979 BCP. Was the idea to remove confirmation from the church altogether, or just to remove it as a rite for a Christian who's changing denominations?

For infants who grow up in the church and who are baptized in infancy, I can see the value of the person committing themselves to Christ and saying the Baptismal Vows in their own voice, and confirmation is a place to do that. Although -- in practice, in my parish, it often seems to be just a routine thing that you do when you're 12, because it's what people do, instead of because you're making a conscious, adult commitment to Christ. A "happy 12th birthday" ceremony may not be all that valuable. I wonder if confirmation should be moved later, maybe to 21 or so, a time when you've had all those arguments with your philosophy professor and you've lived away from your parents a bit and had a best friend who was a Hindu -- and after reflecting on all that, you still want to be Christian. That kind of adult decision seems worthy of a ceremony.
 
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Deegie

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I didn't know that about the discussions preceding the 1979 BCP. Was the idea to remove confirmation from the church altogether, or just to remove it as a rite for a Christian who's changing denominations?

Ruth Myers gives a very accessible and detailed account of the history in her book Continuing the Reformation. It took me a while to find my copy, but I skimmed through the relevant chapters and here is but a very brief summary. [Edited to add: okay, it's not brief. It's really long. And I apologize, but I find it fascinating.]

In the 1960s when prayer book revision was underway, it seemed clear that we would be moving toward an understanding of baptism as the full rite of initiation into the church, including the bestowal of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, since confirmation had previously served as the prerequisite to Communion and would no longer do so, it's use had to be re-thought. The committee was torn over whether a mature public commitment was necessary, and if so, whether to call it "confirmation" or not.

In December 1968, the committee drafted a new rite of baptism which eventually became PBS 18 (the Prayer Book Studies were a series of booklets which set forth proposals for revision). They called the service "Holy Baptism with the Laying-on-of-Hands" and it restored baptism, confirmation, and communion back into a single unified initiatory rite as they believed the ancient church had. They included with it an "Admission to Holy Communion" rite for those coming into TEC from another church and a laying-on-of-hands for those baptized under the old 1928 rite which didn't include it at baptism. Leonel Mitchell, a very influential liturgist, suggested in 1970 that reaffirmation of baptismal vows (much like the catechesis which led to confirmation) should be ongoing and continual when witnessing the baptism of others.

The above unified initiation service had the bishop as the normal minister, but allowed for the whole thing to be delegated by the bishop to priests. This met with a lot of disagreement. One attempt to make it more palatable was to require the use of chrism which had been blessed by the bishop, thereby making the bishop a participant by proxy.

The committee chose not to provide any rite for reaffirmation or confirmation.

In January 1969, the Standing Liturgical Commission (SLC) responded to all of the requests for a reaffirmation service. But instead of assigning it to the Drafting Committee on Christian Initiation, they assigned it to the Drafting Committee on the Catechism to make clear that baptism was a full and sufficient initiation on its own. The Catechism committee responded with what is now the "Form of Commitment to Christian Service" and not with confirmation.

In October 1970, the General Convention heard a proposal to enact the unified PBS 18 as a trial rite in which priests would be licensed by their bishop to do the whole thing. It didn't pass the House of Bishops. Instead, they amended the resolution to allow trial use of the baptismal rite, but held that only the bishop could perform the laying-on-of-hands, and only then if they were old enough for confirmation. Essentially, this kept the status quo -- only with the new baptismal liturgy.

Louis Weil (another respected liturgist and member of the drafting committee) wrote this in an article a few years later: "The general reaction of the Church to PBS 18 was not merely that it was too radical, but rather more that a rite of profound pastoral importance in the Anglican tradition had been lost. It was not so much a question that the sacramental clarification implied by the rite was rejected, but rather that the significance of confirmation as a personal profession of faith and pastoral contact with the bishop had been cast aside."

In 1971, the House of Bishops met and issued "A Statement on Holy Baptism and Its Relation to Confirmation" That statement made a passionate defense of confirmation as an episcopal rite.

In April 1972, the SLC responded to the House of Bishops' statement with a conclusion that a rite of reaffirmation should be repeatable since it does not convey an indelible spiritual character like baptism does. Therefore, they proposed a reaffirmation rite which could be repeated multiple times and was entirely optional. They were clear that it should not be called "confirmation".

In May 1972, the drafting committee met and proposed "A Form for a Bishop's Visitation with the Laying-on-of-Hands." They took the SLC's insistence that it not be called "confirmation" since that implied it completed baptism, which was not the new understanding. It was sent out to the House of Bishops Theological Commission, which opposed it rather strongly.

In August 1972, the drafting committee took the comments from the House of Bishops and reworked their visitation rite. What emerged was sort of a compromise in which the laying-on-of-hands could be repeated at different times of a person's life, but it now included a blessing of the Holy Spirit (although specifically not implying that it was being bestowed for the first time). In September 1972, the SLC made some minor changes and distributed the new proposed visitation rite.

In December 1972, the House of Bishops met with the SLC. Unsurprisingly, the bishops complained that their statement from 1971 was being ignored and that it needed to be called "confirmation". They also continued to hold that the bishop should be the one doing the confirming, although they admitted it was not a case of "doctrinal necessity". The bishops won on every item except the name. The agreed statement from that meeting called it a reaffirmation of baptismal vows but still acknowledged that it was done on a person's "Confirmation Day". The revised service was published in PBS 26 under the very unwieldy name "A Form for the Affirmation of Baptismal Vows with the Laying-On of Hands by the Bishop, also called Confirmation".

The General Convention in 1973 changed the title to "A Form for Confirmation or the Laying-on-of-Hands by the Bishop, with the Affirmation of Baptismal Vows". The resolution originally said that Episcopalians were "suggested" to reaffirm their baptismal promises. That got changed to "encouraged" and then the bishops changed it again to "expected".

The story goes on from there, but by this point the future of confirmation was confirmed (yes, pun intended).
 
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PloverWing

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Thanks, Deegie! I am, actually, fascinated by the details of liturgy and its development, so I enjoyed reading your post.

All this back-and-forth-and-disagreement-and-compromise makes it clearer to me why I can't pin down exactly what confirmation is. The other sacraments make sense to me -- baptism, eucharist, reconciliation, matrimony, and so on. But confirmation is a funny one, especially given the current understanding of baptism. It's a step more complicated for my children, who were all baptized as believers -- they made their own choice and said their own vows at an Easter Vigil. (One holdover from my Baptist upbringing was that we waited until the children were old enough to choose before they were baptized.) It's never been clear what confirmation at age 12 or 13 added to their baptism at age 6 or 7.

A follow-up thought: I suppose confirmation does give the bishop an occasion to stay connected to the parishes and the people of the diocese. The bishop's visit once every year or two gives an occasion to actually meet the bishop, in a ceremony of worship. Our parish is little, maybe 100 members, not especially wealthy or politically important. If not for the confirmation visits, the bishop might just be a distant bureaucrat off in Trenton, and I don't think that's the role that bishops are supposed to play in our church.
 
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Arcangl86

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A follow-up thought: I suppose confirmation does give the bishop an occasion to stay connected to the parishes and the people of the diocese. The bishop's visit once every year or two gives an occasion to actually meet the bishop, in a ceremony of worship. Our parish is little, maybe 100 members, not especially wealthy or politically important. If not for the confirmation visits, the bishop might just be a distant bureaucrat off in Trenton, and I don't think that's the role that bishops are supposed to play in our church.
Two pieces to this. First off, bishops are required by canons to visit every parish at least once between general conventions. So even without confirmations, they would still visit. Second, a lot of larger diocese do group confirmations, so the confirmands go to the cathedral. It's how i was confirmed in the Diocese of Newark.
 
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Paidiske

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I don't think it makes any sense to separate confirmation from baptism for someone old enough to be making their baptismal promises.

I was baptised at 22, and found it very difficult when the church insisted that I be confirmed when I applied for ordination. I could not, for the life of me, see what was lacking in my baptism that I needed another rite. In the end I decided I'd better get used to conforming to the church's quirks!
 
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FireDragon76

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I don't think it makes any sense to separate confirmation from baptism for someone old enough to be making their baptismal promises.

I was baptised at 22, and found it very difficult when the church insisted that I be confirmed when I applied for ordination. I could not, for the life of me, see what was lacking in my baptism that I needed another rite. In the end I decided I'd better get used to conforming to the church's quirks!

I felt the same way about confirmation, and I was baptized as a child. It felt like a formality more than anything important, and did nothing for my personal faith. I was already receiving communion and already felt like a full participant in the church, and all the rite did was draw attention to stuff I supposedly did not know (thank goodness they didn't do what they did to my brother, which is to drag him to other churches and synagogues, which to me is bizarre, but its popular in some liberal congregations).

I think its also noteworthy to see talk about how confirmation is good for the community, but little consideration is given to the individual in this discussion. I wonder sometimes if confirmation doesn't give a false security or distort the notion of faith as a gift altogether for our young people, esp. because in our church it is not considered a sacrament. Many Lutheran youth simply stop attending church at our congregation once they reach a certain age, and that's typically a few years after confirmation. This is common in many Lutherans countries.
 
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