EO Confession

[All4Christ]

Would it be fair to say then that God the Father was fully satisfied with Christ's work on the cross, which was done on our behalf (for all who believe)? This being the "works of satisfaction".

Would you all agree?

If you ever are interested in studying the Orthodox view of atonement, I highly recommend Fr. Patrick Reardon's "Reclaiming the Atonement: An Orthodox Theology of Redemption, Volume 1: The Incarnate Word". It is available on the Kindle store. It also discusses the history of atonement in early Christianity.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I had been thinking I have never been given a penance. But maybe I have. Sometimes (as a fairly new Orthodox) I struggled a bit with knowing what things to confess and how to approach it, or with confessing things that are personal faults rather than intentional sins. A few times, as a result of my questions or uncertainty, Father would suggest a book or a passage of Scripture to read, or a way to think about things, a prayer, or how to think of something, etc.

I don't think those are "penances" in the typical Catholic sense? They are more like advice or suggestions for tools to improve, etc. Though Father rarely makes such suggestions anymore. Usually he just reads the prayer of absolution, blesses me, and gives me a hug.

My SF is MUCH more likely to offer such suggestions.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father would suggest a book or a passage of Scripture to read, or a way to think about things, a prayer, or how to think of something, etc.

that is the key. that is the penance given by the priest. the penance is what he gives you to do. the difference between us and Rome is we are not legalist about it. there is no formula that if you did X sin you must do X penance of saying a certain prayer X amount of times. the pastor comes to you, knowing you as a loving Father, and prescribes the therapy for your wholeness.

 

[Phronema]

The contents of the answers given in this thread by the Eastern Orthodox posters are a testament to why I'm so blown away by, and interested in Orthodoxy. The Orthodox version of confession, and the healing process associated with recuperating from sin is so much more appealing to me than a legalistic penance.

Bit OT, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[Bessie]

The contents of the answers given in this thread by the Eastern Orthodox posters are a testament to why I'm so blown away by, and interested in Orthodoxy. The Orthodox version of confession, and the healing process associated with recuperating from sin is so much more appealing to me than a legalistic penance.

Bit OT, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

Yeah, it is pretty darned awesome! On the other hand, just like going to the doctor, you have to be willing to stand face to face with the priest and admit to the hard thing. I always sought out anonymous confession as a Roman Catholic, and I felt good about my confessions... But I've definitely experienced more healing and progress since becoming Orthodox and having a regular confessor who knows all the gory details.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9 millimeter has nothing to do with it! It's my charisma! I get a 20% discount from penance because I'm a reader (small R )

No penance? Could that be due to the fact that you are 6'5", 250lbs and carry a well-oiled handgun?

 

[~Anastasia~]

that is the key. that is the penance given by the priest. the penance is what he gives you to do. the difference between us and Rome is we are not legalist about it. there is no formula that if you did X sin you must do X penance of saying a certain prayer X amount of times. the pastor comes to you, knowing you as a loving Father, and prescribes the therapy for your wholeness.

Exactly.

It's never a punishment. More like a parent making use of a teachable moment. I really love our priest, and through Confession is one of the main ways he has become Father to me.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The contents of the answers given in this thread by the Eastern Orthodox posters are a testament to why I'm so blown away by, and interested in Orthodoxy. The Orthodox version of confession, and the healing process associated with recuperating from sin is so much more appealing to me than a legalistic penance.

Bit OT, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

I agree. The more I experience, the more I see the wisdom of the Church. I so wish all of our non-Orthodox brothers and sisters could at least understand the great benefits in all of this. Very often they get caught somewhere along the way, often in reaction to a Roman peculiarity (for the Protestants - the Romans often just don't realize we are different).

But the whole "big picture" of God, man, sin, redemption, creation, history, etc. ... is so beautilful as viewed through Orthodoxy.

 

[RC1970]

The contents of the answers given in this thread by the Eastern Orthodox posters are a testament to why I'm so blown away by, and interested in Orthodoxy. The Orthodox version of confession, and the healing process associated with recuperating from sin is so much more appealing to me than a legalistic penance.

Bit OT, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

I agree. The EO do seem to be following a more Biblical approach than the RCC. Many people don't seem to realize that it is this very concept that began the Protestant reformation. The Roman practice of confession is completely sound until you get to the part about "works of satisfaction". This concept is the eye of the tornado.

I need to ask more questions and do more research. Unfortunately, I know more about Buddhists than I know about EO. I consider the RCC to be in a state of apostasy. I would like to find that the EO Church is sound. So far they seem to be very similar to Lutherans (which is not a bad thing ).

 

[Phronema]

I agree. The EO do seem to be following a more Biblical approach than the RCC. Many people don't seem to realize that it is this very concept that began the Protestant reformation. The Roman practice of confession is completely sound until you get to the part about "works of satisfaction". This concept is the eye of the tornado.

I need to ask more questions and do more research. Unfortunately, I know more about Buddhists than I know about EO. I consider the RCC to be in a state of apostasy. I would like to find that the EO Church is sound. So far they seem to be very similar to Lutherans (which is not a bad thing ).

I'm glad you're finding the Eastern Orthodox church agreeable as well. The more biblical approach has certainly occurred to me as well. I believe our God is loving, and it seems that way in terms of this topic.

I've really been enjoying learning about it for the past 6-7 months or so, but there's so much to learn. In my case, I'm ensuring that I learn as much as I can to both ensure I'm good for Orthodoxy and it's good for me. So far nothing I've learned/read/heard about regarding Orthodoxy over the past 7 months has caused me to think twice. It's almost a little alarming, though not in a bad way whatsoever. I'm just astonished I never knew about Orthodoxy until I spent time in Turkey (at 29 years old).

On the topic of it being similar to a Lutheran way of thinking, I unfortunately don't know much about Lutheran doctrine, but I'm glad there are portions you're liking that are similar.

I highly recommend Ancient Faith Radio if you're looking for an Orthodox source to assist with learning sound Orthodox doctrine outside of an Orthodox parish. It's filled with podcasts and great live radio, along with heavenly Orthodox music.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I would like to find that the EO Church is sound. So far they seem to be very similar to Lutherans (which is not a bad thing ).

in some ways, we are very close to traditional Lutherans and Anglicans.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I agree. The EO do seem to be following a more Biblical approach than the RCC. Many people don't seem to realize that it is this very concept that began the Protestant reformation. The Roman practice of confession is completely sound until you get to the part about "works of satisfaction". This concept is the eye of the tornado.

I need to ask more questions and do more research. Unfortunately, I know more about Buddhists than I know about EO. I consider the RCC to be in a state of apostasy. I would like to find that the EO Church is sound. So far they seem to be very similar to Lutherans (which is not a bad thing ).

I've never been Lutheran, but I've had Lutheran friends that I very much respected, found out all about their theology that I could, and considered becoming Lutheran briefly.

We do have quite a bit in common, especially if you include many things the Lutherans consider adiphora (if I'm close to getting that right - pious things one may believe, but not dogma, and not considered essential for sakvation?). They do seem to be more cautious in terms of allowing a more spiritual experience. EO are cautious, but if care is taken in discernment, not quite so opposed as I've found most Lutherans. And Lutherans appear to take a much dimmer view of man's condition, seeing him as hopelessly evil, really? I appreciate their desire to give all credit to God, but really, we as EO certainly give all credit to God, while recognizing that we still have a responsibility to cooperate with Him in the process of our salvation. Those are really the major differences, as far as I can see, along with a general paring-down of many things - fewer Sacraments, tendency to general Confession/absolution, less emphasis on the communion of the Saints, etc. Every differing doctrine I have seen in them seems to come mostly from caution, and reactionary concern about Roman developments/errors ... it's just that we don't agree quite perfectly on what those are, or in more cases, how much reaction against them or reform would be appropriate.

I was once having a detailed discussion with a Lutheran friend about theosis, and the discussion got too big for me and beyond my understanding at that time, but it would be interesting now to compare it.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

No we do not perform penance as works of satisfaction like the Catholics, who see the penance as a required punishment for sin that will either be paid on earth or in purgatory. When there is penance it is because the priest perceives that we need some somewhat bitter medicine to heal ourselves.

It's not a punishment in Catholicism either. It's about getting a fresh start, healing the once devastated relationship with God. Devastated through mortal sin.

This idea of penance as a sort of torture is a gross misunderstanding commonly held by protestants.

We're absolved even if we don't do our penance, it's not attached to the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Bessie]

It's not a punishment in Catholicism either. It's about getting a fresh start, healing the once devastated relationship with God. Devastated through mortal sin.

This idea of penance as a sort of torture is a gross misunderstanding commonly held by protestants.

We're absolved even if we don't do our penance, it's not attached to the forgiveness of sins.

Sorry, I should have used the word "satisfaction" instead of punishment. That is the word the catechism uses, which is definitely more nuanced. I'm an ex RC, so I do have some idea of the differences in experience. I tried to go every week as a Catholic.

 

[Arsenios]

The contents of the answers given in this thread by the Eastern Orthodox posters are a testament to why I'm so blown away by, and interested in Orthodoxy. The Orthodox version of confession, and the healing process associated with recuperating from sin is so much more appealing to me than a legalistic penance.

Bit OT, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

There is absolutely nothing anywhere even close to this Faith! It throws one's previous ways of understanding the world upside down, inside out and backwards. It is initially so counter-intuitive one might wonder if it is even sane, until it starts to gain traction in actually doing it and seeing what happens...

Sin, which is doing anything that is not of God, is a terrible wounding that needs binding and the wine and oil of healing. It has nothing to do with offending God, but with damage to one's own person... We understand it as a matter of the Parable of the Good Samaritan... We are greivously wounded and waiting to die, and Christ comes along in Confession, binds our wounds, forgives us our transgressions, and administers the Anointing and other Gifts of recovery...

And we heal slowly - No magic pills - Eyeball to eyeball with our Confessor - No matter how hard...

This Christianity takes courage...

Arsenios

 

[FenderTL5]

There is absolutely nothing anywhere even close to this Faith! It throws one's previous ways of understanding the world upside down, inside out and backwards. It is initially so counter-intuitive one might wonder if it is even sane, until it starts to gain traction in actually doing it and seeing what happens...

Arsenios

I think this could be the key - "actually doing it"
Faith in my former tradition was based around an understanding - yes deep within the mind and soul understanding but there was little to put that 'faith' in action. It was a dead faith.

Confessing sin in your private prayers is one thing - standing in front of the icon of Christ and confessing in front of the priest is entirely a different thing. scary at first but afterwards it's such a help, a lift, an encouragement..

The same is true for other aspects of Orthodoxy. Much like Martha, I used to say I believed in the resurrection and eternal life, at the end time. Then Jesus says, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Do I? Really?
If yes then the saints are alive. Why would I NOT ask them to pray for me?

 

[Arsenios]

It's not a punishment in Catholicism either. It's about getting a fresh start, healing the once devastated relationship with God. Devastated through mortal sin.

This idea of penance as a sort of torture is a gross misunderstanding commonly held by protestants.

We're absolved even if we don't do our penance, it's not attached to the forgiveness of sins.

Even when punitive, Orthodoxy is so voluntarily... Here is an example:

A monk was attending Vespers one evening. He hadn't bathed in awhile, and was singing in the choir when a fly buzzed his eyes and ears and landed on his nose. He killed the fly with a very quick slap. He then stopped singing, and said to himself: "I have struck out in anger again..."

He immediately departed from the Service and walked down the hill from the Katholikon to a slough there and took off his cassock and stood in prayer for three days, letting all manner of biting and stinging thing torment him without resistance. When the 3rd Vespers Service arrived, he put his cassock back on and rejoined the Service and went on about the rest of his normal evening prayers...

The ONLY relevant question now is this: "Did he EVER strike out in anger again?"
And a VERY relevant answer should be: "I certainly hope not!"
Will he be tested in his new resolve?
Absolutely most assuredly...

So was he concerned about offending God?
Of course!
But his primary concern in that event was his own sin...

There was no concern for assuaging God's feelings of offense at his action...
But his sole concern was the eradication in his own person of his own attraction to that sin of striking out in anger which had been plaguing him throughout his life...

There is NOTHING LIKE this great and wonderful Faith of Christ!
Christ did no sin at all and suffered silently in His Passion...
Consequences self imposed for sins can be a good thing...
Marvelous reminders in sin's treacherously seductive beginnings...

Arsenios

 

[RKO]

yes, we go to confession before a priest, and we are given penance. however, unlike Rome, we do not do so legalistically. confession and communion are the medicine, penance is kinda like the rehab.

This theology, like so much EO theology is first and foremost based on mercy. So very perfect and beautiful...

 

[ArmyMatt]

This theology, like so much EO theology is first and foremost based on mercy. So very perfect and beautiful...

yep, mercy and healing are always how you look at application of the rule, and you always take the penitent's weakness and strength into account

 

[Hermit76]

The Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9 millimeter has nothing to do with it! It's my charisma! I get a 20% discount from penance because I'm a reader (small R )

My wife carries a Shield 9