Enoch and Elijah

[MikeK]

I agree that this didn't just begin, but there have been some major milestones such as the sexual revolution, Roe vs Wade, and now the homosexual revolution and the recent SCOTUS decision on marriage. And when those changes happen in the United States it affects the whole world. It started with the atheistic so-called "Enlightenment," and it's been downhill ever since.Actually, the topic of this thread is directly related to God's mercy. And I created a thread before about the Divine Mercy. Some are searching for truth. But what can be done for the ones who redefine "God" to mean themselves, science, or the government?

There have been some negative milestones, but also some positive ones in the same time period.

Regarding what can be done for people who redefine God, I have never argued anyone into true faith. Every time I tried, I failed. Where I have had success, it was by demonstrating patiently and consistently faith, service, and contentment. When people see how happy we are because of all we've been promised, they will come to desire what we have. Unfortunately, many Christians seem miserable and allow themselves to become depressed about the situation in this temporary life than they are overjoyed about the life to come. There is no better advertisement for Christ than the Christian who acts like a person given such a great gift would behave. Too often I fall short, but when I've done my best to cooperate with the Holy Spirit the results have been remarkable.

 

[pdudgeon]

The more have been some negative milestones, but also some positive ones in the same time period.

Regarding what can be done for people who redefine God, I have never argued anyone into true faith. Every time I tried, I failed. Where I have had success, it was by demonstrating patiently and consistently faith, service, and contentment. When people see how happy we are because of all we've been promised, they will come to desire what we have. Unfortunately, many Christians seem miserable and allow themselves to become depressed about the situation in this temporary life than they are overjoyed about the life to come. There is no better advertisement for Christ than the Christian who acts like a person given such a great gift would behave. Too often I fall short, but when I've done my best to cooperate with the Holy Spirit the results have been remarkable.

unfortunately what people are seeing now is how happy everyone is who is cooperating with satan.
those who revel in their sin are making great strides in the media, politics, law, the military, business, education, medicine, science, etc.
quick reward is fashionable,
and diligent study to become approved is on the back burner.
gollum, gollum.

 

[MikeK]

unfortunately what people are seeing now is how happy everyone is who is cooperating with satan.
those who revel in their sin are making great strides in the media, politics, law, the military, business, education, medicine, science, etc.
quick reward is fashionable,
and diligent study to become approved is on the back burner.
gollum, gollum.

I don't know where you're looking, but I'm not seeing happy people. We have the world's highest standard of living but people complain endlessly. We have Christians moaning about imaginary persecution rather that rejoicing over the world to come. People look and wonder - if the Good News is so good, what are these people so miserable over? Why aren't they selling their lifestyle and beliefs on their inherent values and goodness instead of preaching how awful everyone else is?

That isn't to say we shouldn't call out sin - we should. Much louder though, we should praise the Lord and we should demonstrate just how happy we are with the gift we've been given.

 

[seekingsolace]

We have Christians moaning about imaginary persecution rather that rejoicing over the world to come. People look and wonder - if the Good News is so good, what are these people so miserable over? Why aren't they selling their lifestyle and beliefs on their inherent values and goodness instead of preaching how awful everyone else is?

Please don't try to whitewash the persecution happening in this world.

 

[MikeK]

Please don't try to whitewash the persecution happening in this world.

I'm not whitewashing persecution of Christians in this world - there are Christians dying for their faith every day. There are Christians who are not allowed to worship, there are countries that have banned Chtist's Church from their borders or insisted on naming their own bishops. Persecution of Christians is real and I have no intent of whitewashing it. The imaginary persecution that I referenced was something that we see in this very thread - Christians who suggest that they are victims of persecution because they make indefensible statements and other Christians call them on it. I should have been more clear - my comments about persecution were in the context in the USA in 2015 and in this thread specifically.

 

[seekingsolace]

I'm not whitewashing persecution of Christians in this world - there are Christians dying for their faith every day. There are Christians who are not allowed to worship, there are countries that have banned Chtist's Church from their borders or insisted on naming their own bishops. Persecution of Christians is real and I have no intent of whitewashing it. The imaginary persecution that I referenced was something that we see in this very thread - Christians who suggest that they are victims of persecution because they make indefensible statements and other Christians call them on it. I should have been more clear - my comments about persecution were in the context in the USA in 2015 and in this thread soecifically.

Thank you for clarifying, I get a little defensive on the topic. Of course, that's for another thread.

I am not acquainted with all the USA politics, so I'll leave that to you folks.

 

[pdudgeon]

I don't know where you're looking, but I'm not seeing happy people. We have the world's highest standard of living but people complain endlessly. We have Christians moaning about imaginary persecution rather that rejoicing over the world to come. People look and wonder - if the Good News is so good, what are these people so miserable over? Why aren't they selling their lifestyle and beliefs on their inherent values and goodness instead of preaching how awful everyone else is?

That isn't to say we shouldn't call out sin - we should. Much louder though, we should praise the Lord and we should demonstrate just how happy we are with the gift we've been given.

you know what? i came from a church like that.
Christians wonderfully happy, good news, full parking lots, expanding services, a staff of 50 and 200 volunteers per Sunday worship, multi-church campusus, million dollar church budgets, the latest audio visual dept, backdrop scenery, sound bites, a cafe, the whole works.

I traded that for a small Catholic Church, no parking lot, one piano, 3 choir members, kneelers, and the real presence of God.
I traded up, and I'm glad i did.

p.s. those people were selling their lifestyle, their beliefs, etc. and it was all on the surface.
one or two days a week, a few hours each. they hardly scratched the surface of Christianity.

 

[MikeK]

you know what? i came from a church like that.
Christians wonderfully happy, good news, full parking lots, expanding services, a staff of 50 and 200 volunteers per Sunday worship, multi-church campusus, million dollar church budgets, the latest audio visual dept, backdrop scenery, sound bites, a cafe, the whole works.

I traded that for a small Catholic Church, no parking lot, one piano, 3 choir members, kneelers, and the real presence of God.
I traded up, and I'm glad i did.

Solemn worship is not contrary to an outwardly visible joy and attitude of extreme gratitude.

 

[pdudgeon]

Solemn worship is not contrary to an outwardly visible joy and attitude of extreme gratitude.

and slap-happy praise is also not evidence of a Christian heart.

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree that this didn't just begin, but there have been some major milestones such as the sexual revolution, Roe vs Wade, and now the homosexual revolution and the recent SCOTUS decision on marriage. And when those changes happen in the United States it affects the whole world. It started with the atheistic so-called "Enlightenment," and it's been downhill ever since.Actually, the topic of this thread is directly related to God's mercy. And I created a thread before about the Divine Mercy. Some are searching for truth. But what can be done for the ones who redefine "God" to mean themselves, science, or the government?

Can't do nothing. We can only give the message and say our prayers. Like the bible says, they'll have no excuse.

 

[benedictaoo]

I don't know where you're looking, but I'm not seeing happy people. We have the world's highest standard of living but people complain endlessly. We have Christians moaning about imaginary persecution rather that rejoicing over the world to come. People look and wonder - if the Good News is so good, what are these people so miserable over? Why aren't they selling their lifestyle and beliefs on their inherent values and goodness instead of preaching how awful everyone else is?

That isn't to say we shouldn't call out sin - we should. Much louder though, we should praise the Lord and we should demonstrate just how happy we are with the gift we've been given.

I have no idea what you're seeing. I see everyone rejoicing over sin, thinking we're making this world better. We're damning us, not making things better. This whole thing with the sexes is particularly disturbing. We don't even know what sex we are. Some celebrity in the UK hosted MTV awards and greeted the audience as "Ladies and Gentlemen and everyone in between." We now have those claiming to not know what sex they are, they identify as both! If this is apostasy does not stop this just may be the end. Souls are falling into hell like snowflakes. That to me is our most concerning issues.

 

[fat wee robin]

I reject only your interpretations.

You use a translation where the pope uses the word "tribulation". You conclude that we are in the end times and the world can end at any time. There have been thousands of such analyses, associated with every part of history including the times of the apostles themselves.
ope Benedict was the best theologian in a century. I'm sure that he would have told the people if he thought that we were in the end times. I believe the same about all of our pope since Vatican II.
======
Since the popes have not had this clear discussion (perhaps an encyclical on this important subject), you are left with your personal interpretation of Scripture, and perhaps the idea that the popes are keeping this very important information from the people.

You stand where so many have stood since biblical times. You have your personal interpretation of the Scriptures, And you accuse anyone who disagrees of ignoring Scripture.

There is nothing he could have said that would have convinced you of it.

I agree some people are ahead of other in their comprehension .Some have yet to recieve the Holy Spirit .

 

[fat wee robin]

I thought you said I rejected it? Now it's belittled? Okay then. If you believe that calling the prophesies in question vague, I am guilty as charged. They are vague. Were they not vague, people would not have misunderstood them for centuries.

They are'nt vague ,but kept secret by the Church .

 

[fat wee robin]

I have no idea what you're seeing. I see everyone rejoicing over sin, thinking we're making this world better. We're damning us, not making things better. This whole thing with the sexes is particularly disturbing. We don't even know what sex we are. Some celebrity in the UK hosted MTV awards and greeted the audience as "Ladies and Gentlemen and everyone in between." We now have those claiming to not know what sex they are, they identify as both! If this is apostasy does not stop this just may be the end. Souls are falling into hell like snowflakes. That to me is our most concerning issues.

Some 'sins' come as a result of the churches internal flaws .Not doing her work and so on.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I have no idea what you're seeing. I see everyone rejoicing over sin, thinking we're making this world better. We're damning us, not making things better. This whole thing with the sexes is particularly disturbing. We don't even know what sex we are. Some celebrity in the UK hosted MTV awards and greeted the audience as "Ladies and Gentlemen and everyone in between." We now have those claiming to not know what sex they are, they identify as both! If this is apostasy does not stop this just may be the end. Souls are falling into hell like snowflakes. That to me is our most concerning issues.

I agree. In the 20th century, Pope St. Pius X said that the conditions were ripe for the Antichrist to be in the world, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church lays out the conditions for it by describing today's world.

 

[MikeK]

I have no idea what you're seeing. I see everyone rejoicing over sin, thinking we're making this world better. We're damning us, not making things better. This whole thing with the sexes is particularly disturbing. We don't even know what sex we are. Some celebrity in the UK hosted MTV awards and greeted the audience as "Ladies and Gentlemen and everyone in between." We now have those claiming to not know what sex they are, they identify as both! If this is apostasy does not stop this just may be the end. Souls are falling into hell like snowflakes. That to me is our most concerning issues.

I see my fellow Catholic Knights working against abortion. I see the Church's slowed but still significant growth. I see the Eucharist, the summit of our faith and I see people in Adoration weeping in joy before His beauty. I see the love that large, Catholic families (and even formerly Catholic families - RoseOfLima is eagerly expecting her 9th any day now!) display for their children, and the love those children show for eachother. I see the people who teach my kids, who coach my kids, and who are role models for my kids. I see the children I teach, coach, and serve as a role model for. I see my fellow parishioners supporting our local crisis pregnancy center and even adopting children at risk of abortion. I see a lot of good being done by Christians who love Christ and are thankful for the opportunity to serve Him. Online however, I see a lot of partisan bickering, cowardly question-dodging, misery, malaise, complaints, and quote-mined out-of-context nonsense from people who don't have the guts to embrace a bit of vulnerability and put their name behind their beliefs. This is an opportunity to show people how loving, honest, thankful, faithful, and trustworthy Catholics are, but we come off as a bunch of obsessive compulsive weaklings who won't even answer questions directly presented to them. We should be ashamed of ourselves, but there are some faithful people out there doing some great things for the Lord.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I see my fellow Catholic Knights working against abortion. I see the Church's slowed but still significant growth. I see the Eucharist, the summit of our faith and I see people in Adoration weeping in joy before His beauty. I see the love that large, Catholic families (and even formerly Catholic families - RoseOfLima is eagerly expecting her 9th any day now!) display for their children, and the love those children show for eachother. I see the people who teach my kids, who coach my kids, and who are role models for my kids. I see the children I teach, coach, and serve as a role model for. I see my fellow parishioners supporting our local crisis pregnancy center and even adopting children at risk of abortion. I see a lot of good being done by Christians who love Christ and are thankful for the opportunity to serve Him. Online however, I see a lot of partisan bickering, cowardly question-dodging, misery, malaise, complaints, and quote-mined out-of-context nonsense from people who don't have the guts to embrace a bit of vulnerability and put their name behind their beliefs. This is an opportunity to show people how loving, honest, thankful, faithful, and trustworthy Catholics are, but we come off as a bunch of obsessive compulsive weaklings who won't even answer questions directly presented to them. We should be ashamed of ourselves, but there are some faithful people out there doing some great things for the Lord.

You are very inconsistent with your posts. Sometimes you insist that Planned Parenthood does "some good" while you accuse the Pro-Life side of being liars. At other times you say that the Pro-Life side isn't doing enough to end abortion. But when it comes to the question of whether the conditions are ripe for the Antichrist to be here in the world you suddenly switch to saying everything is awesome, and oddly, while venting anger and calling others names. People can either go with your claim that everything in the world is going great or they can believe what the Church has said about it. I'm going with the Church.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

For any lurkers who may be interested, here's how the Church views the modern world:

“Unlike former days, the denial of God or of religion, or the abandonment of them, are no longer unusual and individual occurrences. For today it is not rare for such things to be presented as requirements of scientific progress or of a certain new humanism. In numerous places these views are voiced not only in the teachings of philosophers, but on every side they influence literature, the arts, the interpretation of the humanities and of history and civil laws themselves. As a consequence, many people are shaken.” - Gaudium et Spes, Vatican II (added emphasis)

Pope St. Pius X (1903-14)

“Such, in truth, is the audacity and the wrath employed everywhere in persecuting religion, in combating the dogmas of the faith, in brazen effort to uproot and destroy all relations between man and the Divinity! While, on the other hand, and this according to the same apostle is the distinguishing mark of Antichrist, man has with infinite temerity put himself in the place of God, raising himself above all that is called God; in such wise that although he cannot utterly extinguish in himself all knowledge of God, he has contemned God's majesty and, as it were, made of the universe a temple wherein he himself is to be adored. ‘He sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God’ (II. Thess. ii., 2).” – E Supremi (October 4, 1903)

“As a matter of fact, this present conflict is even more serious than the others. Although the wild innovators of former times generally preserved some fragments of the treasury of revealed doctrine, these moderns act as if they will not rest until they completely destroy it. When the foundations of religion are overthrown, the restraints of civil society are also necessarily shattered. Behold the sad spectacle of our times! Behold the impending danger of the future! However, it is no danger to the Church, for the divine promise leaves no room for doubt. Rather, this revolution threatens the family and nations, especially those who actively stir up or indifferently tolerate this unhealthy atmosphere of irreligion.” – Editae Saepe (May 26, 1910)

Pope Benedict XV (1914-22)

“Here then, Venerable Brethren, is a burden added to the other misfortunes of these times, with which, more than any one else, We are tried. For if We look around us and count those who are engaged in preaching the Word of God, We shall find them more numerous perhaps than they have ever been before. If on the other hand We examine the state of public and private morals, the constitutions and laws of nations, We shall find that there is a general disregard and forgetfulness of the supernatural, a gradual falling away from the strict standard of Christian virtue, and that men are slipping back more and more into the shameful practices of paganism.” - Humani Generis Redemptionem (June 15, 1917)

Pope Pius XI (1922-39)

“For the first time in history we are witnessing a struggle, cold-blooded in purpose and mapped out to the least detail, between man and ‘all that is called God.’" - Divini Redemptoris (March 19, 1937)

Pope Pius XII (1939-58)

“The present age, Venerable Brethren, by adding new errors to the doctrinal aberrations of the past, has pushed these to extremes which lead inevitably to a drift towards chaos.” – Summi Pontificatus (October 10, 1939)

"Let all remember that the flood of evil and disaster that has over-taken the world in past years was due chiefly to the fact that the divine religion of Jesus Christ, that provider of mutual charity among citizens, peoples and nations, did not govern, as it should, private, domestic and public life." - Optatissima Pax (December 18, 1947)

Pope St. John XXIII (1958-63)

“It pains Us, therefore, to observe the complete indifference to the true hierarchy of values shown by so many people in the economically developed countries. Spiritual values are ignored, forgotten or denied, while the progress of science, technology and economics is pursued for its own sake, as though material well-being were the be-all and end-all of life.” – Mater et Magistra (May 15, 1961)

 

[LivingWordUnity]

(continued)

Bl. Pope Paul VI (1963-78)

“The Church itself is being engulfed and shaken by this tidal wave of change, for however much men may be committed to the Church, they are deeply affected by the climate of the world. They run the risk of becoming confused, bewildered and alarmed, and this is a state of affairs which strikes at the very roots of the Church. It drives many people to adopt the most outlandish views. They imagine that the Church should abdicate its proper role, and adopt an entirely new and unprecedented mode of existence.” – Ecclesiam Suam (August 6, 1964)

"The first sphere is the one which can be called the increase of unbelief in the modern world...From the spiritual point of view, the modern world seems to be forever immersed in what a modern author has termed "the drama of atheistic humanism." - Evangelii Nuntiandi (December 8, 1975)

Pope John Paul I (August 26 - September 28, 1978)

“It is the temptation of substituting for God one's own decisions, decisions that would prescind from moral laws. The danger for modern man is that he would reduce the earth to a desert, the person to an automaton, brotherly love to planned collectivization, often introducing death where God wishes life.” – Urbi et Orbi (August 27, 1978)

Pope St. John Paul II (1978-2005)

“In the modern world there is a tendency to reduce man to his horizontal dimension alone. But without an openness to the Absolute, what does man become? The answer to this question is found in the experience of every individual, but it is also written in the history of humanity with the blood shed in the name of ideologies or by political regimes which have sought to build a 'new humanity' without God.” – Redemptoris Missio (7 December 1990)

“This reality is characterized by the emergence of a culture which denies solidarity and in many cases takes the form of a veritable ‘culture of death’.” – Evangelium Vitae (25 March 1995)

"As I emphatically stated at Denver, on the occasion of the Eighth World Youth Day, 'with time the threats against life have not grown weaker. They are taking on vast proportions. They are not only threats coming from the outside, from the forces of nature or the 'Cains' who kill the 'Abels'; no, they are scientifically and systematically programmed threats. The twentieth century will have been an era of massive attacks on life, an endless series of wars and a continual taking of innocent human life. False prophets and false teachers have had the greatest success'." – Evangelium Vitae (25 March 1995)

Pope Benedict XVI (2005-2013)

“This is a matter of no small account today, in a social and cultural context which relativizes truth, often paying little heed to it and showing increasing reluctance to acknowledge its existence.” – Caritas in Veritate (June 29, 2009)

Pope Francis (2013—)

“Today more than ever, we need to be reminded of this bond between faith and truth, given the crisis of truth in our age.” – Lumen Fidei (29 June 2013)

 

[LivingWordUnity]

France was once a devoutly Christian nation, so much so that she was called "the eldest daughter of the Church." But France apostatized and became known for the atheistic revolution called the "Enlightenment" which marked the beginning of the modern age. In the following quote, Pope Leo XIII contrasts France before and after her apostasy:

Pope Leo XIII, Nobilissima GallorumGens (On the Religious Question in France)

The most noble nation of the French, besides many splendid achievements in peace and war, has deserved from the Catholic Church praise for special services, gratitude for which will never die, and the glory of which will never grow old. Having embraced Christianity at the initiative of its King, Clovis, it was rewarded by this most honourable testimony to its faith and piety, the title of eldest daughter of the Church...But when the human mind, filled with the poison of new opinions, had begun, in the pride of an untempered liberty, to reject the authority the Church, its downward course has been rapid and precipitate. For when the mortal poison of false doctrines had penetrated manners and customs themselves, society, to a great extent, came to fall away from Christianity. And in France the propagation of this plague was not a little promoted by certain philosophers in the last century, professors of a foolish wisdom, who set themselves to root up the foundations of Christian truth, and started a system of philosophy calculated the more vehemently to inflame the desires after unlimited licence which had been already enkindled. Nor was the help of these wanting whom an impotent hatred of religion binds together in unhallowed bonds, and daily renders more eager in the persecution of Catholics; and whether emulation in this evil work was greater in France than anywhere else, nobody, Venerable Brethren, can be a better judge than yourselves.

For these reasons, therefore, the fatherly love We bear to all the nations of the world, and which impelled Us to recall the peoples of Ireland, Spain, and Italy to their duty, when the need arose, by Our letters to their Bishops - has induced Us to turn Our attention and thought to France. The designs of which We have just spoken are injurious, not only to religion, but are also harmful and fatal to the State; for it is impossible that prosperity should follow a State in which the influence of religion is extinguished.

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