Enoch and Elijah

[pdudgeon]

How so? Who's position have I misrepresented?



I'm not assuming, I'm observing. There exist, unfortunately, people who are too insecure to put their name on the line and take a clear stand. There are also people who let their fears prevent them from serving God as best they can. These people are cowards.



When you say "a simpleton can understand that, you appear to be doing exactly what you accuse me of. Christ was a lot of wonderful things, but He was not always flowery on His speech.



I partially reject that idea. Mother Theressa was quick to promote the good she did, that her mission could grow and more service to God could be done. I like the way Jimmy Carter appeals to people to join him in working for Habitat for Humanity. I like the way the Apostles and so many great Saints used examples of their successes to inspire us, and also plainly shared their failures...also to inspire us.

and she was also quick to reject the complication of her goals.
i'm just taking this from the movie about her, but i remember her questioning how much the bottled water cost for the board meetings,
about all the food for the receptions, going in the back way to the UN to avoid the press, carrying a child to a hospital when she couldn't get an ambulance,
making the rounds of the doctors herself to get the child admitted to the hospital, etc.

whenever things got too complicated she would scale them back. She didn't trust in herself to accomplish things, but she did trust in God.

as for what Christ did, He was Himself.
whether He was talking to one woman, 12 men or 5,000 people.
He said what needed to be said, gave God the glory, and let it go at that.
and when confronted with rudeness and stupidity , His silence spoke volumns.

and yes, people thought Him foolish, stupid, cowardly, arragant, pridefull, and jumped-up.

 

[pdudgeon]

Nobody here is advocating for Earthly glory. There is no harm in saying "join me in picketing this abortion clinic", or "can you help me out at the food pantry?" or even "I was blessed to be able to take part in a Parish blood drive."

anytime the words "I", "ME" or MINE" need to be used in connection with charity or good works, it's always for earthly glory.

 

[MikeK]

anytime the words "I", "ME" or MINE" need to be used in connection with charity or good works, it's always for earthly glory.

That is a pretty damning statement. A quick word search on various Papal writings on w2.atican.va shows that those words were frequently used in these documents, including some writings that were referencing works of charity.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Nobody here is advocating for Earthly glory. There is no harm in saying "join me in picketing this abortion clinic", or "can you help me out at the food pantry?" or even "I was blessed to be able to take part in a Parish blood drive."

It's off topic to do that. And since we aren't your neighbors it makes no sense to say, "Can you help me out at the food pantry?" So it looks like you are just trying to create a diversion by claiming to be morally superior. And when you say things like "I'll defend Planned Parenthood against lies!" or "I'll defend Obama against lies!" and then claim to be a conservative it makes me not believe what you claim about yourself.

 

[MikeK]

It's off topic to do that. And since we aren't your neighbors it makes no sense to say, "Can you help me out at the food pantry?" So it looks like you are just trying to create a diversion by claiming to be morally superior. And when you say things like "I'll defend Planned Parenthood against lies!" and contradict it with claiming to be a conservative it makes me not believe what you claim about yourself.

What incorrect conclusions based upon faulty logic you draw about me are of very little concern to me. I will defend anyone against lies, even Planned Parenthood. It is wrong to lie in order to bring hem down, the truth is sufficient. If your definition of a conservative includes a willingness to tolerate lies out of political convenience, I can understand why you would have trouble seeing me as a conservative.

While I can't really expect your help at a food pantry, I did once ask the board's help in getting as many people to join the blood marrow donor registry as I could. It was a success. I'll spare the details of how I accomplished this (with the Lord's help, of course) because I suspect it would only result in accusations of seeking Earthly glory, but I will share the results. At least one person from the group we put together here was called upon to make a donation, and potentially saved someone's life. I think that's awesome, and all Glory goes to God for letting us help serve outer fellow man. Sometimes I lead in service and sometimes I follow, and too often I don't do anything at all.

 

[pdudgeon]

That is a pretty damning statement. A quick word search on various Papal writings on w2.atican.va shows that those words were frequently used in these documents, including some writings that were referencing works of charity.

since you've offered...care to throw up any examples of such?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

What incorrect conclusions based upon faulty logic you draw about me are of very little concern to me. I will defend anyone against lies, even Planned Parenthood. It is wrong to lie in order to bring hem down, the truth is sufficient. If your definition of a conservative includes a willingness to tolerate lies out of political convenience, I can understand why you would have trouble seeing me as a conservative.

When you say "I'll defend Obama against lies!", and always say it whenever Obama gets criticized by conservatives, the thing that you are saying is that conservatives are liars. So it makes no sense to then say that you are a conservative. And when you say "I'll defend Planned Parenthood against lies!" as you frequently have done, you are calling the Pro-Life side liars. So, by the same principle, it makes no sense to later say that you are Pro-Life. In other words, if you call us liars and then say that you are one of us, what are you saying about yourself?

 

[MikeK]

since you've offered...care to throw up any examples of such?

Help yourself. ctrl-F is your friend.

 

[MikeK]

When you say "I'll defend Obama against lies!", and always say it whenever Obama gets criticized by conservatives, the thing that you are saying is that conservatives are liars.

No, I am saying that some conservatives are liars. Some liberals are also liars. Many are, in fact.

So it makes no sense to then say that you are a conservative.

Huh? That doesn't make a bit of sense. Some Catholics rape children. I am a Catholic, and I am against the raping of children.

And when you say "I'll defend Planned Parenthood against lies!" as you frequently have done, you are calling the Pro-Life side liars.

Some pro-life people are liars. Some pro-choice people are liars. Many, in fact.

So, by the same principle, it makes no sense to later say that you are Pro-Life. In other words, if you call us liars and then say that you are one of us, what are you saying about yourself?

Does the line of thinking you're using here make sense to you? You have called yourself a conservative. Have you ever known a conservative who lied? Does that make conservatives liars as a whole? This is the stuff my 2nd grader is working on. Sandy has 3 dogs. All of her dogs are red. Does that mean that all dogs are red?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

MikeK,

If you don't mind, I would like this thread to be at least in some way related to the topic in the OP.

 

[Armoured]

There's no point arguing with you Mike. I have stated what you have done, and continue to.

All I ask is you consider your words, and stop using certain terms derogatorily. That's not much to ask, especially of a Christian.

Is it unreasonable when he asks you for specific examples? Because I don't see him misrepresenting anyone either.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread.

"Thus St. Jerome is in complete agreement with St. Augustine, who sums up the general belief of Christian antiquity when he says: Holy Scripture is invested with supreme authority by reason of its sure and momentous teachings regarding the faith. Whatever, then, it tells us of Enoch, Elias and Moses - that we believe. We do not, for instance, believe that God's Son was born of the Virgin Mary simply because He could not otherwise have appeared in the flesh and 'walked amongst men' - as Faustus would have it - but we believe it simply because it is written in Scripture; and unless we believe in Scripture we can neither be Christians nor be saved." - Pope Benedict XV, Spiritus Paraclitus

 

[seekingsolace]

Is it unreasonable when he asks you for specific examples? Because I don't see him misrepresenting anyone either.

We do not agree on many things. Forgive me when I don't want a discussion with you.

 

[Armoured]

We do not agree on many things. Forgive me when I don't want a discussion with you.

You don't seem to want a discussion with any body.

 

[seekingsolace]

You don't seem to want a discussion with any body.

I prefer to read.

 

[Armoured]

I prefer to read.

That's great. Why are you on a discussion forum?

 

[seekingsolace]

That's great. Why are you on a discussion forum?

Perhaps I should have added that your opinion was untrue.

I tend to welcome discussion when the persons are well intentioned.

 

[Armoured]

Perhaps I should have added that your opinion was untrue.

I tend to welcome discussion when the persons are well intentioned.

Respectfully, WHAT opinion of mine is untrue??

 

[seekingsolace]

Respectfully, WHAT opinion of mine is untrue??

You don't seem to want a discussion with any body.

That. As I have just said - I tend to welcome discussion when the persons are well intentioned.

 

[Armoured]

That. As I have just said - I tend to welcome discussion when the persons are well intentioned.

Oh. Why do you doubt either my or Mike's intentions?