Enoch and Elijah

[LivingWordUnity]

With Pope Francis, not only is he dedicating a jubilee year to the Divine Mercy, but if you think about it, it has been the dominant theme of his papacy from day one.

 

[pdudgeon]

thanks for the previous links^^
(got 'em bookmarked 'just in case')

 

[mark46]

Do us a favor. When you have a date for the end of the world, start a new thread. Personally, I have spent enough time in my life listening to talks about the end of the world. There have hundreds of predictions.

I mean no disrespect. Have fun. It is good that there is a thread to discuss such items. I believe that there is a whole sub-board over at GT.

 

[seekingsolace]

Do us a favor. When you have a date for the end of the world, start a new thread. Personally, I have spent enough time in my life listening to talks about the end of the world. There have hundreds of predictions.

No one is forcing you to participate Mark.

 

[pdudgeon]

No one is forcing you to participate Mark.

yep to the above^^^
in fact, not so long ago a very special forum was created over here http://www.christianforums.com/forums/the-lords-table-liberal-catholics.966/
just so all those of like-minded persuasion would have an opportunity to gather in a nice place, free from all that they don't like about the Catholic Church,
and discuss to their heart's content.

have you been there lately?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Do us a favor. When you have a date for the end of the world, start a new thread. Personally, I have spent enough time in my life listening to talks about the end of the world. There have hundreds of predictions.

I mean no disrespect. Have fun. It is good that there is a thread to discuss such items. I believe that there is a whole sub-board over at GT.

That's a red herring. This thread is about Enoch and Elijah. I have never said or suggested that I know the date when Jesus will return. The topic of End Times eschatology is analogous to the forbidden fruit. We are allowed to eat from every tree except for one. The one tree in the forest that we can't eat from is the tree of the knowledge of the exact time when Jesus will return.

Here is how St. John Chrysostom explained it:

For this cause, I say, when He [Jesus] had told all things, both the times and the seasons, and had brought it to the very doors ("for it is near," He says, "even at the doors"), He was silent as to the day. For if you seek after the day and hour, you shall not hear them of me, says He; but if of times and preludes, without hiding anything, I will tell you all exactly.​

- St. John Chrysostom, Homily 77 on Matthew
.​

 

[pdudgeon]

That's a red herring. I have never said or suggested that I know the date when Jesus will return. The topic of End Times eschatology is analogous to the forbidden fruit. We are allowed to eat from every tree except for one. The one tree in the forest that we can't eat from is the tree of the knowledge of the exact time when Jesus will return.

Here is how St. John Chrysostom explained it:

For this cause, I say, when He [Jesus] had told all things, both the times and the seasons, and had brought it to the very doors ("for it is near," He says, "even at the doors"), He was silent as to the day. For if you seek after the day and hour, you shall not hear them of me, says He; but if of times and preludes, without hiding anything, I will tell you all exactly.​

- St. John Chrysostom, Homily 77 on Matthew
.​

agreed. that date and time is reserved to God to know, which is a good thing.
in that same way in the parable of the Wise and Foolish bridesmaids, it was the Bridegroom Himself who shut the door on those who were late.
And it was God who also shut the door of the Ark after all the animals and humans were inside.
And it was God Himself who hid Moses in the cleft of the rock while He passed by.

there are so many incidents of God either hiding or protecting people by hiding them from calamity in the Bible,
that there really should be no question about whether or not that He will do so again.

Both the means and the provision for being hidden against calimity are open, apparent, and within easy access in all
the biblical examples we have.

The point is not so much in knowing the time or the date, but in knowing and making use of the provisions that God makes availble to us
for
1. forgiveness,
2.entrance into His good will, and
3.acceptance of His sheltering mercy.

those three things are available each day to all who will accept them,
and remain safely and securely sheltered within them.
and those who use them have no need to worry about when the door will be shut.

this upcoming Year of the Jubilee of Divine Mercy is another great example of a modern day Ark being provided by God.
And for this one there is no excuse for 'missing the boat", because we know exactly when it begins and when it ends.

 

[MikeK]

I just wanted to say something to think about for those who dont like talking about prophecy etc.

Our whole faith is built on prophecy and fullfilment of prophecy. The prophecy of the coming of the messiah and our lords fullfilment of those prophecies. Future prophecy of the book of revelation. Papal prophecies the proohecies of saints and mystics the prophecy of the return of christ the theological writings and considerations of prophecy from great church theologians.

The nicean creed states

"We LOOK for the resurection of the dead and the life of the world to come"

Our lord told us

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."

We should not be so quick to dismiss prophecy it is the basis of our faith neither should we be quick to proclaim the day of the lord is not upon us because we must remember that i 2 peter chapter 3 it says that in those times people will deny he is coming.
Lastly we should look and stay watchfull consider the signs of our own times and consider the possibility that these are infact those days as we are told to do so by Christ himself...

35 "Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning,

36 like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him.

37It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them.

38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night.

39But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into.

40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

41 Peter asked, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?"

42 The Lord answered,"Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time?

43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns.

44 I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

45 But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk.

46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.

48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

There is nothing wrong with a casual interest in prophesy. There is something seriously wrong with a greater emphasis being placed on prophesy than on the two greatest commands from our Lord. There is nothing wrong with studying prophesy in one's rest time between worshiping God and serving neighbor.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

There is nothing wrong with a casual interest in prophesy. There is something seriously wrong with a greater emphasis being placed on prophesy than on the two greatest commands from our Lord. There is nothing wrong with studying prophesy in one's rest time between worshiping God and serving neighbor.

Pride is the worst sin. You are judging me based on what you don't know about me. Do you live with me in my home to judge how I live in my every day life outside of this website? I don't judge anyone here on things I imagine they are doing or not doing in their life outside of CFs. And I don't brag on myself.

 

[MikeK]

Pride is the worst sin. You are judging me based on what you don't know about me. Do you live with me in my home to judge how I live in my every day life outside of this website? I don't judge anyone here on things I imagine they are doing or not doing in their life outside of CFs. And I don't brag on myself.

I'm not judging you at all. All I know about you is what you demonstrate. I can see that you are very passionate about end times prophesies. I have not seen similar passion from you in threads about helping others. You might be teaching CCD and organizing prison ministries and building houses for the poor and bringing the Eucharist to the infirm and running Bible studies or outreach groups for the least among us. People who do those things generally like to talk about them, so that they can share experiences and improve their service. That doesn't mean that you aren't giving of yourself. You just might be and I never stated that you weren't. All I know of you is what you post, and what you post is generally either overtly politically partisan or is related to the end times. I pass no judgement on you or your soul and I don't for a minute presume to know your sins not am I interested in them.

"Pride is the worst sin." That's kinda why I don't engage much in Biblical puzzle-solving - many better men than me have tried and failed for 2000 years. I don't believe that I could do better. I don't know who the Antichrist is anymore that Popes Benedict or Francis do/did. If I did, I hope I would share that information out of love for neighbor.

 

[seekingsolace]

I'm not judging you at all. All I know about you is what you demonstrate. I can see that you are very passionate about end times prophesies. I have not seen similar passion from you in threads about helping others. You might be teaching CCD and organizing prison ministries and building houses for the poor and bringing the Eucharist to the infirm and running Bible studies or outreach groups for the least among us. People who do those things generally like to talk about them, so that they can share experiences and improve their service. That doesn't mean that you aren't giving of yourself. You just might be and I never stated that you weren't. All I know of you is what you post, and what you post is generally either overtly politically partisan or is related to the end times. I pass no judgement on you or your soul and I don't for a minute presume to know your sins not am I interested in them.

"Pride is the worst sin." That's kinda why I don't engage much in Biblical puzzle-solving - many better men than me have tried and failed for 2000 years. I don't believe that I could do better.

You claim to not be judging then are being disingenuous in the rest of the post.

People out helping generally don't boast about it. Unless of course they like to clean the outside of the cup.

 

[MikeK]

You claim to not be judging then are being disingenuous in the rest of the post.

People out helping generally don't boast about it. Unless of course they like to clean the outside of the cup.

Talking about a ministry that you happen to be involved in is not synonomous with boasting. I certainly don't do all of the things I mentioned in my examples.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I'm not judging you at all. All I know about you is what you demonstrate. I can see that you are very passionate about end times prophesies. I have not seen similar passion from you in threads about helping others. You might be teaching CCD and organizing prison ministries and building houses for the poor and bringing the Eucharist to the infirm and running Bible studies or outreach groups for the least among us. People who do those things generally like to talk about them, so that they can share experiences and improve their service. That doesn't mean that you aren't giving of yourself. You just might be and I never stated that you weren't. All I know of you is what you post, and what you post is generally either overtly politically partisan or is related to the end times. I pass no judgement on you or your soul and I don't for a minute presume to know your sins not am I interested in them.

"Pride is the worst sin." That's kinda why I don't engage much in Biblical puzzle-solving - many better men than me have tried and failed for 2000 years. I don't believe that I could do better. I don't know who the Antichrist is anymore that Popes Benedict or Francis do/did. If I did, I hope I would share that information out of love for neighbor.

There you go again with that faulty logic. That there are "people who tried and failed" to understand prophecy doesn't mean that prophecy is not knowable. For example, there are "people who have tried and failed" to understand Math, but it does not mean that Math is not knowable. It is not prideful to seek the truth. Pride is when we do not care to seek the truths of our faith but instead rely solely on our own understanding rather than to trust in Sacred Scripture and what the saints and Popes of the Church have said about it. But it seems like you couldn't care less what the saints and Popes have said since you have even said that Pope Benedict XVI is not good enough for you even though he, along with Pope Francis, is more qualified as a biblical scholar than anyone alive on earth today. I've also posted quotes from one of the greatest doctors of the Church, St. John Chrysostom, and you act like it's nothing.

About your claim of me being partisan, it's a deflection and totally the opposite of the truth. I left the Democrat party because I'm not partisan. And I created a thread in CFs saying that I'm having doubts about Donald Trump, the candidate who is the current favorite to win in the GOP primaries. But your political tone has always been against conservative principles and always for liberal politicians. I know, you will say, "I've supported Republicans." But it's only when it's one that isn't very conservative and at a time when they aren't running against a Democrat. For example, you were against John McCain when he was running against Obama, but you praised him some years later, after he lost the election, when he agreed with Democrats on something. And you often say "I'll defend Obama against lies!" which means you will jump to his defense anytime conservatives criticize him.

The topic of Enoch and Elijah has nothing to do with partisan politics. But, ironically, you made politics a part of this thread by bringing it up. Because you called me "partisan" I had to start talking about politics in order to answer your accusation. Like I said, it would be nice if you could stick to the topic of this thread instead of throwing out a bunch of random diversions.

 

[MikeK]

Please don't tell lies about me or anyone else, it is bad for the soul. I never said that Pope Benedict was not good enough for me. He is a wonderful Biblical scholar and has written so much on such a wide variety of topics and is more than good enough for me. If he came forward and said he was 99.9% certain who the Antichrist was or that Enoch and Elijah coincided with this particular Jubilee and with Blood Moons and so on, I would pay close attention. For some reason, neither he nor Pope Francis is making those claims.

I will praise people when they do good and I will criticize people when they support evil. John McCain would have made a poor President, but he absolutely is an authority on human torture and his statements were consistent with those of our Bishops so of course I agreed with him on that topic.

 

[LoAmmi]

now here's a question for you. when is the one time of the year when Jews celebrate and give each other gifts?

That's a good question. What's the answer because I want to get in on these gifts?

Well, ok, food gifts on Purim, but is that what you were referring to?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I will praise people when they do good and I will criticize people when they support evil. John McCain would have made a poor President, but he absolutely is an authority on human torture and his statements were consistent with those of our Bishops so of course I agreed with him on that topic.

You were against McCain when he was running against Obama. You said some very mean, nasty things about McCain back then. The only time you have ever said anything good about a Republican is when they are not very conservative and not running against a Democrat or when they are doing something that pleases the Democrat party. The same for Mitt Romney. You were for him in the primaries, but as soon as he won the primary you flipped and started telling conservative Catholics that he wasn't conservative enough for our vote. And then you say, "I'll defend Obama against lies!". So I don't think you should be accusing others of being partisan.

Please don't tell lies about me or anyone else, it is bad for the soul. I never said that Pope Benedict was not good enough for me. He is a wonderful Biblical scholar and has written so much on such a wide variety of topics and is more than good enough for me.

You contradicted yourself. In this same thread, you say:

Maybe Pope Benedict wasn't as good a Biblical scholar as some of our members here are.

And then after saying that, you say:

You should not lie. I did not say that I don't think Pope Benedict was a very good Biblican scholar.

Do you read your posts?

If he came forward and said he was 99.9% certain who the Antichrist was or that Enoch and Elijah coincided with this particular Jubilee and with Blood Moons and so on, I would pay close attention. For some reason, neither he nor Pope Francis is making those claims.

If you want to be in the group caught totally by surprise if the Second Coming happens soon that's your choice.

 

[MikeK]

I don't ever remember thinking that Romney or Obama or McCain would have made a good President. I may have thought any of them were less awful than someone they were running against. I never voted for any of them for President.

You can elect to continue on this tangent if it is the way you would like this thread to go, or you can address the false statement you told about me saying Pope Benedict wasn't good enough or our Popes' decisions not to speak on this topic specifically, and also their related lack of statements that they know with any degree of certainty the identity of the Antichrist.

Unsubscribing. Have a good time!

 

[pdudgeon]

There is nothing wrong with a casual interest in prophesy. There is something seriously wrong with a greater emphasis being placed on prophesy than on the two greatest commands from our Lord. There is nothing wrong with studying prophesy in one's rest time between worshiping God and serving neighbor.

but in order to study prophesy, one would first have to believe that there is a reason why God gives such direction to those He loves.
One cannot love God and worship Him on the one hand, and yet dismiss what He has to say to us on the other hand.
Indeed, if we love Him we would be eager to sit at His feet and learn from Him.

 

[pdudgeon]

I'm not judging you at all. All I know about you is what you demonstrate. I can see that you are very passionate about end times prophesies. I have not seen similar passion from you in threads about helping others. You might be teaching CCD and organizing prison ministries and building houses for the poor and bringing the Eucharist to the infirm and running Bible studies or outreach groups for the least among us. People who do those things generally like to talk about them, so that they can share experiences and improve their service. That doesn't mean that you aren't giving of yourself. You just might be and I never stated that you weren't. All I know of you is what you post, and what you post is generally either overtly politically partisan or is related to the end times. I pass no judgement on you or your soul and I don't for a minute presume to know your sins not am I interested in them.

"Pride is the worst sin." That's kinda why I don't engage much in Biblical puzzle-solving - many better men than me have tried and failed for 2000 years. I don't believe that I could do better. I don't know who the Antichrist is anymore that Popes Benedict or Francis do/did. If I did, I hope I would share that information out of love for neighbor.

there is a difference between talking about what one is doing, and talking about what God is doing.
in case you missed it, the whole reason for doing these acts of kindness and mercy is so that others may see them and give glory to God.
I'm not seeing that reasoning or example in your posts.

 

[mark46]

No one is forcing you to participate Mark.

Agreed. that is why I said that I meant no disrespect. As you said, I don't intend to discuss this further.