Enoch and Elijah

[pdudgeon]

I don't know. It sems to say the holy father, clergy, relgious, and layity, that their suffering is a result of atheist communism's attack on the Church and Christians of the 20th century. But it just may continue into this century. Where I get confused is, Russia was to convert and their was to be a time of peace. Was the 90's really it? Was that the new springtime? I was there. I didn't see it. I saw the wall come down, I saw Our Lady of Fatima being carried in procession in Russia but then soon after, the county went EO. And in America Clinton legalized the killing of the preborn. So I'm confused.

or it could have been the Arab Spring. Or the South American Spring. in both cases dictators were toppled.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Would the Catholic Workers Party be considered socialist? Certainly not atheistic.

Do they consider themselves socialists? If so, they need to find out what the Church says about socialism. Some people say that socialism has changed, but there is no evidence for that claim. In 1961, St. John XXIII specifically said in his encyclical Mater et Magistra that "no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism." Isn't the claim of socialists today that socialism is "moderate"? So how is there a change? I don't think socialism has changed since 1961. And in 1998, St. John Paul II reminds us in Fides et Ratio to reject Marxist philosophy.

 

[MikeK]

I haven't seen any evidence that Russia is going back to socialism. There's been western propaganda war against Russia ever since Russia's law that made it illegal to promote homosexuality in their country. But it's obvious that the United States is at least unofficially socialist since we even have a presidential primaries candidate who is openly and proudly a socialist.

Western Propaganda? What are you talking about? It is Russian sources that have detailed the increased government control and ownership of their military arms industries, it is Russian sources that report increased givernment control and ownership of their energy sector.

The United States is unofficially socialist because one person running for President has called himself a Democratic Socialist? Where do you get this stuff?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Worker_Movement
Here's some info on the Catholic Workers movement, including their beliefs. I would support a politician that held these values.

 

[MikeK]

Do they consider themselves socialists? If so, they need to find out what the Church says about socialism. Some people say that socialism has changed, but there is no evidence for that claim. In 1961, St. John XXIII specifically said in his encyclical Mater et Magistra that "no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism." Isn't the claim of socialists today that socialism is "moderate"? So how is there a change? I don't think socialism has changed since 1961. And in 1998, St. John Paul II reminds us in Fides et Ratio to reject Marxist philosophy.

If you don't know what the Catholic Workers Movement was about and what they taught, it's you that needs to read up.

Socialism has broadened, certainly. Some aspects of socialism, like socialized healthcare and the goals of the Catholic Workers Movement and promotion of the right of workers to organize is quite compatible with, and even smiled upon by, Catholic moral teaching. The objection to socialism that the Church holds is to efforts to remove the individual from opportunity to own the means of production and steer his own course and to government efforts to stifle religious freedom.

Of course, we can look to the Soviet Union's treatment of homosexuals for examples of how real communists think of gays and, presumably, gay marriage.

Of course, we can also look to Pope Francis's statements on government in South America to get a better understanding of what is and is not acceptable.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I provided the official documents showing what the Catholic Church teaches about socialism.

But, as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[Armoured]

Here are some excerpts about Enoch and Elijah from a book that Rhamiel told me about:

"These two witnesses will be two strange men, appearing suddenly amidst the world, without anyone being able to say of what birth or origin they are, nor from what place or family that have come....No tongue can express the sheer amazement that will grip mankind at the sight of these two men, strangers to our passions and affairs, one of them having lived six thousand years, the other thirty centuries, in some ethereal region or other....What sort of appearance and bearing will these strangers from another age present? What venerable majesty will shine forth from their persons? What inspired language will flow from their lips? Holy Scripture does not tell us. It teaches us that they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth, their garments and features bearing the marks of humility and penance."

- Fr. Charles Arminjon, The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life, pp. 52-53

On the book:

Also see:
Genesis 5:21-24 (Enoch)
Malachi 4 (Elijah)
Revelation 11 (The Two Witnesses)

Dude, you really gotta stop listening to these Rapture Ready types. Live in the now. "For no man knoweth the day nor the hour"

 

[Armoured]

I provided the official documents showing what the Catholic Church teaches about socialism.

But, as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

you quoted something from 1961. And then the more recent JPII who said "Marxist Philosophy", not "socialism". You are, as usual, reaching.

 

[pdudgeon]

Dude, you really gotta stop listening to these Rapture Ready types. Live in the now. "For no man knoweth the day nor the hour"

of course the conclusion of what you are suggesting (live in the now, forget about the rapture) is to be on the wrong side of the door when it shuts.

the smart people are the ones who have lots of oil, are awake and watching for the Bridegroom, believing His promise that He will come for them.

 

[MikeK]

I provided the official documents showing what the Catholic Church teaches about socialism.

But, as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

You sure did, and I brought up the specific tenets of socialism that make it socialism, the backdrop of what made the Church oppose socialism, and what commonalities with socialist ideals (whether called socialism or something else) the Church concurs with. You can engage in meaningful discussion or you can smugly quote-mine those statements that are politically expedient. Your call.

 

[MikeK]

of course the conclusion of what you are suggesting (live in the now, forget about the rapture) is to be on the wrong side of the door when it shuts.

the smart people are the ones who have lots of oil, are awake and watching for the Bridegroom, believing His promise that He will come for them.

The smart people are those that are doing their best to love and serve the Lord and love their neighbor as themselves. There is nothing special about the apocalypse from a salvation standpoint. Whether we meet our end from some Revelations-esque sea-monster bearing three sixes or we die in a car wreck or of a heart attack, what we need for salvation is the same.

 

[benedictaoo]

Dude, you really gotta stop listening to these Rapture Ready types. Live in the now. "For no man knoweth the day nor the hour"

No, we don't but dude, lemme tell you something, what we do know through every last prophecy including, especially what's in scripture is the call for us all, individuals, societies, nations to REPENT. In every age God calls us to repentance and pray in order to save our miserable souls. Fatima was a specific call for our generation because we ARE, with all this leaglized deviency and leaglized murder of the innocent, offending God and damning ourselves and Mary comes as a Mother warning us and reminding us the way back to God. She asks for the faithful to save the sinners by praying and making sacrifices for them. We have to stop offending God, He is far to much offended. Mary's Immaculate Heart will triumph because it already has. Her assent to God's will, her "yes" to bring Christ to us has saved mankind. Its through devotion to Mary, praying the rosary for sinners and for world peace will we bring about conversions and stop all this godlessness. You should not be for all this godlessness in our world. Homosexual marriages and killing babies in the womb. It's not of God, it's evil and it's sending souls to hell. The prophecy is to repent, the kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[benedictaoo]

it's not nonsense, it's Matthew 25:1-13.

Umm, rapture doctrine has been condemned by the Catholic Church.

 

[benedictaoo]

The smart people are those that are doing their best to love and serve the Lord and love their neighbor as themselves. There is nothing special about the apocalypse from a dalvation standpoint. Whether we meet our end from some Revelations-esque sea-monster bearing three sixes or we die in a car wreck or of a heart attack, what we need for salvation is the same.

To clarify, loving our neighbor and service to God in serving the lesser, first and for most, people are going to hell for sins that are rampart in our world. Its not about doing and giving to the poor. That is certainly good and we all must heed this call in so much as we can, however, its about the both & the and. Its also about saving poor sinners as well poor persons who have les or not enough. We must also be praying for poor sinners, making sacrifices for them. There is a serious call and need for penance in our world. And please take this into serious consideration, those who promote and engage in, who preach godlessness, like those Catholics who go around supporting homosexual marriage and other deviancy, they cannot cancel out that evil they spread with their service to tending to the temporal needs of the poor. Please think about Mary's call at Fatima. It was to repentance, to stop offending God so we can stop with the badgering about serving the temporal needs of our brethren. It means nothing to God if you lead them into hell. This is the socialist way the USA is treading and so America is in danger. Russia did spread her error all about.

 

[MikeK]

To clarify, loving our neighbor and service to God in serving the lesser, first and for most, people are going to hell for sins that are rampart in our world. Its not about doing and giving to the poor. That is certainly good and we all must heed this call in so much as we can, however, its about the both & the and. Its also about saving poor sinners as well poor persons who have les or not enough. We must also be praying for poor sinners, making sacrifices for them. There is a serious call and need for penance in our world. And please take this into serious consideration, those who promote and engage in, who preach godlessness, like those Catholics who go around supporting homosexual marriage and other deviancy, they cannot cancel out that evil they spread with their service to tending to the temporal needs of the poor. Please think about Mary's call at Fatima. It was to repentance, to stop offending God so we can stop with the badgering about serving the temporal needs of our brethren. It means nothing to God if you lead them into hell. This is the socialist way the USA is treading and so America is in danger. Russia did spread her error all about.

You are correct that it is not an either/or, we must give preferential treatment to the least among us and we must speak out against sin and immorality.

I do disagree a bit though. We can never stop "badgering about the temporal needs of our brethren" nor can we ever stop trying to win souls for Christ and praying for those in need, whether physically or spiritually.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Didn't we just miss that, I thought the end was supposed to be about two weeks ago according to prophesy?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Oct 7th, 2015, that's the date I was thinking of. I'd forgotten about the Blood Moon prophesy also this fall.
This list is an interesting read of all the predictions of end times/final judgement. ..mainly from Christianity but a few from other beliefs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

 

[benedictaoo]

It's much more than speaking out against. We must pray and make sacrifices for them because their going to hell. Pray and make sacrifices, intercede for them because they're so poor in spirit, they don't pray even for themselves. Serving the poor can certainty be a sacrifice made, offered for the poor sinners. The very rich need our service too. We must pray for souls who have no one to pray for them, not even themselves. Mother Theresa said that was our poverty. Spiritual. Who do you think is more in need? A poor prayerful, God fearing person or a rich, well off sinner? They are each in need but one has made provisions for eternity. The other just for this life that ends. So it's all about our right intensions, and balance. We can't serve one and ignore the other. We need to be God centered when tending to the needs of the poor. America has lost her way, Mike.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Do they consider themselves socialists? If so, they need to find out what the Church says about socialism. Some people say that socialism has changed, but there is no evidence for that claim. In 1961, St. John XXIII specifically said in his encyclical Mater et Magistra that "no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism." Isn't the claim of socialists today that socialism is "moderate"? So how is there a change? I don't think socialism has changed since 1961. And in 1998, St. John Paul II reminds us in Fides et Ratio to reject Marxist philosophy.

you quoted something from 1961. And then the more recent JPII who said "Marxist Philosophy", not "socialism". You are, as usual, reaching.

St. John XXIII said that a Catholic can't even follow so-called "moderate socialism," and 1961 wasn't long ago.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

St. John XXIII said that a Catholic can't even follow so-called "moderate socialism," and 1961 wasn't long ago.

Then why is the Church celebrating Dorothy Day?