Ellen White's Sabbath in Eden is Not Biblical

mmksparbud

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Correct. The Scriptures say...……."FIRST day of the Week".

The other side of your comment is that there is not one single Scripture that says the Church is to worship on Saturday!


Acts 20:7 ESV
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

Acts 20:7 ESV
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

John 20:19 ESV
On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

To answer your comment correctly, there are No Scriptures in the bible is there a verse that says in THE EXACT words that it has been changed from the 7th day to the 1st day.

Correct Bible exegesis and proper CONTEXT tells us that The 7th day sabbath was never given to anyone except the Israelites who were at Mt Sinai after being delivered from Egyptian bondage. It was never given to Abraham, Isaac or Jacob, the ones that the Israelites looked to as their father. It was never given to the Gentiles.

My dear friend...….

Deut. 5:1………
"Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: ?Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.
The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today.

Deut. 5:12…..
Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day."

NOT one single word was said about WORSHIP on a SATURDAY.

The Israelites were the ones that were slaves in Egypt, no one else therefore the law of the sabbath applied only to them.

It was a part of the covenant that God gave to Israel and Israel only, and it was to last only until Christ came who would give a better covenant.

Christ arose from the dead on the first day of the week, (Matt. 28:1).

The church began on the first day of the week, (Acts 2:47)

The first century church worshiped and observed the Lords' Supper on the first day of the week, (Acts 20:7).

The early church gave of their means on the first day of the week when they came together to worship. (1 Cor 16:1-2)

All history, both church history and secular history show that the early church met for worship on the first day of the week.

The sabbath was a part of the Law of God, the Law of Moses which was ended when Christ died on the cross. (Col 2:14)

The observance of the first day of the week began when the church began, on the first day of Pentecost following the resurrection of Christ. (Acts 2).

Bless you as you pray and contemplate these Bible facts because as Bob Ryan says.....
Bible details matter" and he is 100% correct in that.

They met on the first day of the week---says nothing about worshiping. And they still---years after the resurrection, refer to the 7th day as the Sabbath. Not one verse that states--the 1st day of the week is now the day of worship instead of the 7th. There was virtual war over doing away with circumcision, which is not a part of the 10 commandments, yet not one word about a change to the Sabbath??-ludicrous!!
 
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BobRyan

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The KJV translation of Colossians 2 verse 14 which we see, "handwriting of ordinances" refers to the various Mosaic rituals

No it does not... it refers to "DEBT" in fact "certificate of debt"

Col 2
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Christ paid the debt that we owe -- our second-death lake-of-fire punishment owed for our sin.

The "reason" we need the Gospel as Rom 3:19-23 makes clear - is because we are condemned as sinners and cannot survive paying our own debt. If we each owed 2 dollars as our total debt for sin - there would be no Gospel -- we would each to pay the 2 bucks.

Not sure how that gets missed in this frequent "no Bible Sabbath for me" discussions.


So if some law was nailed to the cross, it would have to be the ceremonial law, since the moral law was not made "void" by the cross as seen in Romans 3:31.

Col 2 does not say some law was nailed to the cross - but rather the decrees related to our debt - the debt that we owe and the decrees written against us for each sin - the payment due for each sin committed.

Passover was not a "decree" or "debt" against us -- it was a promise - a prediction of the Savior. And Gentiles were never even obligated to keep it - only the literal Jews even had to deal with it.

Bible details matter.
Col. 2:14...…
" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" - KJV

The reference to “handwriting of ordinances”

Col 2 does not say some law was nailed to the cross - but rather the decrees related to our debt - the debt that we owe and the decrees written against us for each sin - the payment due for each sin committed. Christ did not come to rescue us from "Passover" our great "debt of passover" in fact gentiles were not even allowed to keep it.

Christians all over planet Earth know this to be true - even in the song "I will sing of My Redeemer"

"Sing, oh, sing of my Redeemer,
With His blood He purchased me,
On the cross He sealed my pardon,
Paid the debt, and made me free. "

source: I will sing of my Redeemer Lyrics - Christian Lyrics

No wonder even your own Sunday Bible scholars admit to this detail
 
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BobRyan

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Paul then puts an exclamation point on the discussion in verses 20-21 stating that if you are now saved by grace FROM the rudiments/elements of the world, why then would you want to be subject again to ordinances like “touch not, taste not, handle not” – clear references to the ordinances of the Law of Moses.

Colossians 2:4-21 ………………..
"And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not".

Source: What was nailed to the cross in Colossians 2:14?

Col 2 is condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Acts 15:1-2 the historic context of some folks 'making stuff up' and saying that one cannot be saved unless they comply with the made-up rules. In Col 2:14-15 Paul points out that salvation is through Christ who paid the debt of sin owed. Then Paul goes after all the various forms of making-stuff-up showing how it is condemned.

Col 2:
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

============= Christ Himself condemned Bible-denying traditions of man

GOD speaks for God and HE already spoke to this point of changing His Law via church tradition. As we see in Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it is shown via "Sola Scriptura" testing that it is traditions and "doctrines of men" that are at odds with scripture

================= Accuser of the Brethren condemned

In Rev 12 we see the work of the "Accuser of the brethren".

In Matt 7 (pre-cross -- and law in full effect) Christ condemns judging others.

In Col 2:16 we have this -

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


An example of NOT condemning eating OR drinking or remembering God's Ten-Commandment creation-Sabbath day to keep it holy. Rather Col 2 condemns the "commandments of men" - (as is so carefully avoided in the quotes we often see from Col 2)


Col 2 is 0pposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. - so it is opposed to 'making stuff up' - via "man-made tradition"

It proves that the topic is the commandments and doctrines of men "-- not the Word of God that is being condemned or deleted rather "the commandments and doctrines of men "

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

Col 2:
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
 
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Dale

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D.L. Moody insists that the Sabbath begins in Eden.
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

Moody says this in that sermon

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness."

Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" - sectn 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 affirm the same point about the TEN Commandments as the moral law of God that is given in Eden.

The lack of depth in the accusations made in the post is reflected somewhat by this statement "Most Christian advocates of Sabbath observance are influenced by Ellen White" - as if all Christians who are not at war against God's 4th commandment -- take their doctrine from Ellen White when it comes to God's Sabbath Commandment.

That is such an extreme statement it is hard to overstate the level of its exaggeration.



Baptist Confession of Faith -- sectn 19

Here is it in Spurgeon's exanded edition in th 19th century.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

19. The Law of God


  1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.


  2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.


  3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.


  4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

  5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.


  6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.


  7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
======================================

Westminster Confession of Faith
Westminister Confession of Faith Chapter 19

Westminister Confession of Faith Chapter 19
Of the Law of God
  1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him, and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
  2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six our duty to man.
  3. Beside this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances; partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth diverse instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.
  4. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require.
  5. Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God’s approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works: so as a man’s doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one, and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law, and not under grace.
  6. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God revealed in the law requires to be done.



Indeed they do.. did you actually "read" Moody's text??

Baptists meet on Sunday.

So also do Presbyterians.

I quote their text for the points that they do get right. Because there are certain Bible details that are so glaringly obvious - that BOTH sides of this issue agree to them. One of those obvious details being -- that the Sabbath was binding upon all mankind starting in Eden. Which of course refutes the OP and Title of this thread claiming that only someone reading and following Ellen White would notice this obvious Bible detail.

Frankly I am surprised that since this is at the very heart of your OP and thread title - you do not mention your own point.



Well then .. you are not aware of "Regular Baptists" or "General Baptists" and apparently not aware of C.H. Spurgeon.

The BCoF was "adopted by the Philadelphia Association of Baptist Churches in the 18th century, it is also known as the Philadelphia Confession of Faith."

The point of the reference is that like the "Westminster Confession of Faith" (and also D.L. Moody's statement on the Sabbath) it shows that the acceptance of all TEN of God's Commandments as applicable to all mankind in Eden, applicable to all mankind to this very day, and included in the moral law of God under the NEW Covenant -- is not a detail "only known to Seventh-day Adventists".... the point remains.

And as they all point out (without having to "first BE Ellen White") - the Sabbath began with Adam and Eve in Eden.




Ex 20:11 says it was. So also Genesis 2:1-3 ... because every time God makes something "sanctified" He is obligating mankind to honor and respect what God has deemed holy.





I don't know why you think that Dwight Moody is your ace in the hole. He was not a trained theologian. They say he had a fifth grade education.


If Moody brought people to Christ, great, but I am not bound by what he believed.

Take a look at this quote.


<< “I want to be frank with you, Mr. Moody,” one of his listeners once told him. “I want you to know that I do not believe in your theology.”

“My theology!” Moody exclaimed. “I didn’t know that I had any. I wish you would tell me what my theology is.” >>

There it is. I don't have to disagree with Moody's theology. He never had one.



Link:
The Three Rs of Moody's Theology
 
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BobRyan

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Those who go to church on Saturday, or advocate Sabbath observance, often say that God ordained the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments. It is assumed that Christians are obligated to obey the Ten Commandments, although no verse in the New Testament that exactly says so. The Ten Commandments were specifically given to the Jews, to Israel.

Most Christian advocates of Sabbath observance are influenced by Ellen White, the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists....

Could you quote this Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith that you refer to? I don't think I have seen these particular documents.

D.L. Moody insists that the Sabbath begins in Eden.
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

Moody says this in that sermon

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness."

Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" - sectn 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 affirm the same point about the TEN Commandments as the moral law of God that is given in Eden.

The lack of depth in the accusations made in the post is reflected somewhat by this statement "Most Christian advocates of Sabbath observance are influenced by Ellen White" - as if all Christians who are not at war against God's 4th commandment -- take their doctrine from Ellen White when it comes to God's Sabbath Commandment.

That is such an extreme statement it is hard to overstate the level of its exaggeration.

Could you quote this Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith that you refer to? I don't think I have seen these particular documents.

Baptist Confession of Faith -- sectn 19

Here is it in Spurgeon's exanded edition in th 19th century.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

19. The Law of God


  1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.


  2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.


  3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.


  4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

  5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.


  6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.


  7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
======================================

Westminster Confession of Faith
Westminister Confession of Faith Chapter 19

Westminister Confession of Faith Chapter 19
Of the Law of God
  1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him, and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
  2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six our duty to man.
  3. Beside this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances; partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth diverse instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.
  4. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require.
  5. Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God’s approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works: so as a man’s doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one, and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law, and not under grace.
  6. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God revealed in the law requires to be done.

You have opened two posts by quoting the Methodist lay evangelist D. L. Moody. There is a church in Chicago named after him, the Moody Church. They meet on Sunday.

Indeed they do.. did you actually "read" Moody's text??

Baptists meet on Sunday.

So also do Presbyterians.

I quote their text for the points that they do get right. Because there are certain Bible details that are so glaringly obvious - that BOTH sides of this issue agree to them. One of those obvious details being -- that the Sabbath was binding upon all mankind starting in Eden. Which of course refutes the OP and Title of this thread claiming that only someone reading and following Ellen White would notice this obvious Bible detail.

Frankly I am surprised that since this is at the very heart of your OP and thread title - you do not mention your own point.

I am not aware of any Baptist church or denomination today that recognizes the Baptist Confession of Faith that you are quoting here. The Southern Baptist Convention has issued a Statement of Faith, which was first drafted in the 1930's.

.

Well then .. you are not aware of "Regular Baptists" or "General Baptists" and apparently not aware of C.H. Spurgeon.

The BCoF was "adopted by the Philadelphia Association of Baptist Churches in the 18th century, it is also known as the Philadelphia Confession of Faith."

The point of the reference is that like the "Westminster Confession of Faith" (and also D.L. Moody's statement on the Sabbath) it shows that the acceptance of all TEN of God's Commandments as applicable to all mankind in Eden, applicable to all mankind to this very day, and included in the moral law of God under the NEW Covenant -- is not a detail "only known to Seventh-day Adventists".... the point remains.

And as they all point out (without having to "first BE Ellen White") - the Sabbath began with Adam and Eve in Eden.


But was it given to Adam and Eve by God?

Ex 20:11 says it was. So also Genesis 2:1-3 ... because every time God makes something "sanctified" He is obligating mankind to honor and respect what God has deemed holy.

I don't know why you think that Dwight Moody is your ace in the hole.

Because some folks imagine that only Ellen White could possibly notice these glaringly obvious Bible details.
 
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Major1

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No it does not... it refers to "DEBT" in fact "certificate of debt"

Col 2
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Christ paid the debt that we owe -- our second-death lake-of-fire punishment owed for our sin.

The "reason" we need the Gospel as Rom 3:19-23 makes clear - is because we are condemned as sinners and cannot survive paying our own debt. If we each owed 2 dollars as our total debt for sin - there would be no Gospel -- we would each to pay the 2 bucks.

Not sure how that gets missed in this frequent "no Bible Sabbath for me" discussions.




Col 2 does not say some law was nailed to the cross - but rather the decrees related to our debt - the debt that we owe and the decrees written against us for each sin - the payment due for each sin committed.

Passover was not a "decree" or "debt" against us -- it was a promise - a prediction of the Savior. And Gentiles were never even obligated to keep it - only the literal Jews even had to deal with it.

Bible details matter.


Col 2 does not say some law was nailed to the cross - but rather the decrees related to our debt - the debt that we owe and the decrees written against us for each sin - the payment due for each sin committed. Christ did not come to rescue us from "Passover" our great "debt of passover" in fact gentiles were not even allowed to keep it.

Christians all over planet Earth know this to be true - even in the song "I will sing of My Redeemer"

"Sing, oh, sing of my Redeemer,
With His blood He purchased me,
On the cross He sealed my pardon,
Paid the debt, and made me free. "

source: I will sing of my Redeemer Lyrics - Christian Lyrics

No wonder even your own Sunday Bible scholars admit to this detail

The seventh result of the work of Christ on the cross: “having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us.” Jesus destroyed the demands of the law against us.
“having wiped out the handwriting of requirements”

When God forgave us (verse 13) he canceled the judgment in God’s written law against us (Romans 3:19).

“Wiped out” means to erase, obliterate. This is an intense word in the original because it is a compound word. God wipes out a number of things in the New Testament: Acts 3:19 [sins]; Revelation 3:5 [name in a book];7:17 [tears]. Here God wipes out the list of charges against us. God not only forgives our sin but he blots out the record of it. Not only is the handwriting erased but the document itself is removed.

The word “handwriting” was used in writing outside the New Testament for the posting of a public debt. It was especially used of a record of financial accounts. Special emphasis was given to the handwritten nature of the document. This is a note hand signed by a debtor acknowledging his indebtedness. It is what we call an IOU. It was a record of debts we signed with our own handwriting. Jesus canceled the record of these debts to God.

“Handwriting” is used almost exclusively for the autograph on a promissory note. This word occurs frequently in Roman law. It is a signed admission of liability. Our sins pile up as a vast list of debts to God making it abundantly clear that we are liable before God.

“Requirements:” decree, ordinance, decision, command, a formalized rule (or set of rules) prescribing what people must do. The law has a certificate of requirements that puts us in debt to God. This is God’s public opinion against us; it is his list of charges against our sin. This is the Mosaic law. God must stand resolved against us because he cannot contradict his own essence and standards. Therefore, the law demands perfection.

“that was against us”

“Against us:” opposite to, is used of that which is contrary to persons. The commandments of the Old Testament and our moral nature testify against us. Because God is perfect, every standard he holds is a testimony against us.

We face the totally hopeless IOU of God’s righteousness. We owe God sinlessness. We could not possibly pay this debt. We do not have the personal resources. We are up to our hocks in debt. We must welsh on the debt because we cannot pay. Because of this, there was an IOU out against us. The beauty of Christianity is Jesus canceled our debt for us. Jesus personally paid off our debts.

“which was contrary to us”
Contrary to:” set over against, meeting, set against, opposite ,of enemies in battle, opposed, opposite. Because we cannot live up to the standard of the law it works against us and opposes us (Romans 4:15; 5:20; I Corinthians 15:56; Galatians 3:23). God always defines righteousness in terms of his own perfection.
The law is like a taskmaster. It puts us in bondage but it does not give us the power to live up to the standards of the law. The law threatens us with penalty and pain.

PRINCIPLE:
God canceled our IOU (the law) against us by the cross.
Colossians 2:14 | Bible Exposition Commentary
 
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Major1

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They met on the first day of the week---says nothing about worshiping. And they still---years after the resurrection, refer to the 7th day as the Sabbath. Not one verse that states--the 1st day of the week is now the day of worship instead of the 7th. There was virtual war over doing away with circumcision, which is not a part of the 10 commandments, yet not one word about a change to the Sabbath??-ludicrous!!

Acts 20:7...……..
"On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."

This is just too easy!
 
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mmksparbud

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Acts 20:7...……..
"On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."

This is just too easy!

Read the whole thing and think!! This was not a Sunday morning worship service--it has been explained to you several times!---
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Act 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
Act 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
Act 20:12 And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.
Act 20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.

You really think that Paul preached from Sunday morning to midnight??? That isn't a long sermon, it's a filibuster! They got together Saturday night at sundown--for Saturday night dinner. The Jews counted their days from evening to evening--at sundown began the next day--(it was not midnight to midnight!) this was at the very start of Sunday--which began sundown Saturday night. He peached until midnight--a lot more doable then from Sunday morning to midnight!!
After the boy was resurrected, they ate again--broke bread again---and then Paul continued to preach until sunup--then he went to the ship--it was still the 1st day of the week. If they had kept Sunday--he would not have traveled on that day.
They met for a Saturday night supper, after sundown it became the 1st day of the week! This was not for worship! Breaking bread meant to eat ---which they broke bread again after the boy was revived.

No Sunday worship here.
 
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Albion

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Isn't it the case that we don't really know which day is the first and which the last anymore after the calendar has been tinkered with several times in the past 2000 years? We are only going by which day is treated by our society today as the first or the last.
 
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mmksparbud

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I understand your need to believe what you have been taught, but the word "Sabbath" is never found in the book of Genesis.

3 and~he~will~much~KNEEL(V) (וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SEVENTH (הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i) and~he~will~much~SET.APART(V) (וַיְקַדֵּשׁ / wai'qa'deysh) AT~him (אֹתוֹ / o'to) GIVEN.THAT (כִּי / ki) in~~him (בוֹ / vo) he~did~CEASE(V) (שָׁבַת / sha'vat) from~ALL (מִכָּל / mi'kol) BUSINESS~him (מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~SHAPE(V) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) to~>~DO(V) (לַעֲשׂוֹת / la'a'sot)

RMT: and Elohiym exalted the seventh day and he set him apart, given that in him he ceased from all of his business which Elohiym shaped to make.
The Torah: Genesis 2

CEASE(V): (שבת / sh.b.t) To come to an end; to die out; to stop an activity for the purpose of rest or celebration. Strong's: #7673


The word shavat is sabbath-------this site will not allow me to copy. Jewish site. Those interested can look for themselves.

Hebrew Word of the Week - Shevat
 
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mmksparbud

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Isn't it the case that we don't really know which day is the first and which the last anymore after the calendar has been tinkered with several times in the past 2000 years? We are only going by which day is treated by our society today as the first or the last.


Dates were changed--never the days of the week. Example: going from the Tues. the 14 to the Wed. 16th and skipping the 15th--the order of the days of the week remains the same.
 
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Albion

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Dates were changed--never the days of the week. Example: going from the Tues. the 14 to the Wed. 16th and skipping the 15th--the order of the days of the week remains the same.
I've read that before...on religious websites. But it isn't correct. All that happens in such a case is that the calendar and the observances are made to accommodate the changes. In addition, it is done after the fact, meaning that the observances in prior years were on the wrong day. Adventists customarily maintain that they are concerned with abiding by God's appointed day, not what humans are calling the first or the last, etc. and He is not bound by the Julian Calendar or the Gregorian Calendar or Leap Years.
 
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mmksparbud

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I've read that before...on religious websites. But it isn't correct. All that happens in such a case is that the calendar and the observances are made to accommodate the changes. In addition, it is done after the fact, meaning that the observances in prior years were on the wrong day. Adventists customarily maintain that they are concerned with abiding by God's appointed day, not what humans are calling the first or the last, etc. and He is not bound by the Julian Calendar or the Gregorian Calendar or Leap Years.

Strange that the Jews still have been able to know when the 7th day is.
 
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Major1

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Isn't it the case that we don't really know which day is the first and which the last anymore after the calendar has been tinkered with several times in the past 2000 years? We are only going by which day is treated by our society today as the first or the last.

Agreed and I have said several times now, it is a waste of time to debate such an issue.

Everyday is God's day. Pick one and worship the Lord Jesus Christ. Personally I do that EVERYDAY I live.
 
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Major1

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Strange that the Jews still have been able to know when the 7th day is.

That is because they still try to follow the Law.

You are doing the same thing when you mix Law with Grace.

Going to church worship services on Saturday does not make you a Christian anymore than standing in the garage makes you a car.
 
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tampasteve

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mmksparbud said:
Strange that the Jews still have been able to know when the 7th day is.


yes. Christians know when week-day-1 is ... and Jews and Christians know when the 7th day is.

Two world religions - in total agreement on that point.

That is "the easy part".
 
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Isn't it the case that we don't really know which day is the first and which the last anymore after the calendar has been tinkered with several times in the past 2000 years? We are only going by which day is treated by our society today as the first or the last.
no that is not correct.

Strange that the Jews still have been able to know when the 7th day is.

Agreed.

In fact both Christians and Jews agree on that order of the days of the week when Christians claim that week-day-1 of the NT is "Sunday" the day of Christ's resurrection.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

As we all know
in the Julian calandar change - no days of the week dropped or inserted
in the Gregorian calendar change - no days of the week dropped or insert.
Every leap year to this very day ... day added... but no days of the week dropped or inserted

This is the "easy part"
 
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