Ellen White's Sabbath in Eden is Not Biblical

Dale

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This whole argument will be null and void if you could just point to the verse that says---you can enter heaven while you are an unrepentant sinner. Simple.
The law--none of the 10, will make you "eligible" to enter heaven. You are saved by grace period. Just please find the verse or verses that say you can unrepentantly break His law and still enter heaven. Should not be difficult for you.


There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Christians must keep the Jewish Sabbath. In the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew and the Sermon on the Plain in Luke, Jesus made many Old Testament teachings stronger but He says nothing about the Sabbath. The same goes for the Parables of Jesus in all four Gospels. In Acts 15, the Apostles lay down the conditions for non-Jews becoming Christians. Observing the Jewish Sabbath isn't one of the conditions.

Sparbud, you talk about how we are to "enter heaven." In the Parable of the Sheep and Goats, Jesus tells us who will be saved and who will be condemned. Jesus doesn't say that anyone will be condemned for not keeping Old Testament law. Instead, He says that the condemned will be those who lack compassion for their fellows.

Besides these problems, look at what the Sabbath Commandment actually says. The Sabbath Commandment is labor law, it says that everyone gets a day off. The Commandment says nothing about going to church. The Commandment cannot be satisfied by going to church on Saturday.
 
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mmksparbud

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There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Christians must keep the Jewish Sabbath. In the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew and the Sermon on the Plain in Luke, Jesus made many Old Testament teachings stronger but He says nothing about the Sabbath. The same goes for the Parables of Jesus in all four Gospels. In Acts 15, the Apostles lay down the conditions for non-Jews becoming Christians. Observing the Jewish Sabbath isn't one of the conditions.

Sparbud, you talk about how we are to "enter heaven." In the Parable of the Sheep and Goats, Jesus tells us who will be saved and who will be condemned. Jesus doesn't say that anyone will be condemned for not keeping Old Testament law. Instead, He says that the condemned will be those who lack compassion for their fellows.

Besides these problems, look at what the Sabbath Commandment actually says. The Sabbath Commandment is labor law, it says that everyone gets a day off. The Commandment says nothing about going to church. The Commandment cannot be satisfied by going to church on Saturday.

Again with the nothing about going to church. Seriously? What do you think Jesus and the disciples did every Sabbath? It wasn't called "church" is all. Before the tabernacle in the wilderness was built the patriarch gathered their families before the altars. The head of each family was the one that presided over the sacrifices. The disciples were all getting together every Sabbath after the resurrection. There were some 1st day gatherings--but nothing says they gathered strictly for worship. The did that every Sabbath and they met in the temple and the synagogues and later in homes.

If you read the Sunday gatherings--they were on Saturday night, the beginning of the 1st day of the week starts at sundown Saturday night. That is Jewish start of the days. That is still the start of Sabbath to this day--Sundown Friday night. Why would Jesus make a big deal of the Sabbath in His sermons, or the disciples? That was a given. All Jews kept the Sabbath--there was no getting around it, it wasn't anything they needed to expound on. Jesus tried to get the people to see the Sabbath as it was originally meant. Not burdened down with minutia that the Rabies had introduced.

It was Sat night sundown gathering when Paul preached till midnight. Please don't tell me he preached without ceasing from Sunday morning to midnight! He preached after dinner--which is what breaking bread also means--which would have been after sundown Sat night--the beginning of the 1st day--and he preached until midnight. He went to the boat and traveled that next morning (still Sunday)--if he had kept Sunday, he would not have traveled on that day.
The only time the disciples said something about the Jewish feasts was to say they did not have to be kept ---Jesus had met all requirements as the Sacrificial Lamb. Any feasts (which were also called sabbaths) which pointed to Jesus as the Lamb were done away with at the cross.
There was world war 3 when they said that circumcision no longer had to be done--and you really think, something just as important to them would not have elicited just as much of a fight? But not one word was said about it having been done way with. Sabbath. All anyone has to say is that they don't have any intention if keeping it and that is that. No one has to tell God the why of anything. God knows those who are genuinely misinformed, misguided as was Saul and He is able to, at the right time, send them their own Damascus experience. He knows who those are that simply do not want to turn their lives upside down and change their comfortable routines to comply with God's requests.
In the end--according to Rev.-- it will all come down to worship. Who will worship the beast, or who will worship God. Everyone will be marked--it is all a matter of whose mark one receives--the beasts or God's, for God will seal His own.
 
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BobRyan

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This whole argument will be null and void if you could just point to the verse that says---you can enter heaven while you are an unrepentant sinner. Simple.
The law--none of the 10, will make you "eligible" to enter heaven. You are saved by grace period. Just please find the verse or verses that say you can unrepentantly break His law and still enter heaven. Should not be difficult for you.

So Caspian thinks that if you don't go for the false teaching of OSAS you are gnostic? really? All Methodists are gnostic??
 
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BobRyan

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There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Christians must keep the Jewish Sabbath.

until you read it. And when you do you find out that even in the NT - the "Sabbath is for mankind" as Christ said in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made FOR mankind" ... details matter.

And of course "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6:2

In the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew and the Sermon on the Plain in Luke

I know ... I know -- There is not one quote of "do not take God's name in vain" or "Love God with all your heart" - in those texts. But you are seriously missing a lot of Bible details going that direction.

(As you have been informed dozens of times so far on that point).

As we see "every Sabbath" they met for Gospel preaching in the Synagogues - in Acts 18:4.
 
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Dale

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until you read it. And when you do you find out that even in the NT - the "Sabbath is for mankind" as Christ said in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made FOR mankind" ... details matter.

And of course "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6:2



I know ... I know -- There is not one quote of "do not take God's name in vain" or "Love God with all your heart" - in those texts. But you are seriously missing a lot of Bible details going that direction.

(As you have been informed dozens of times so far on that point).

As we see "every Sabbath" they met for Gospel preaching in the Synagogues - in Acts 18:4.



The SDA interpret the Lord of the Sabbath passage to mean the opposite of what it says. It is perfectly clear that Jesus is saying that He isn't going to follow the OT rules on the Sabbath.

The Apostles did not make non-labor on the Sabbath a condition of being a Christian. The Apostles made Sunday the normal day of Christian worship.
 
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mmksparbud

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The SDA interpret the Lord of the Sabbath passage to mean the opposite of what it says. It is perfectly clear that Jesus is saying that He isn't going to follow the OT rules on the Sabbath.

The Apostles did not make non-labor on the Sabbath a condition of being a Christian. The Apostles made Sunday the normal day of Christian worship.

Jesus clearly stated He wasn't going to follow the Rabbis version of Sabbath keeping, but He followed God's definition. The Jews had added 100's of "definitions" to Sabbath keeping that God never mentioned. The apostles never worked on Sabbath--they preached and taught at the synagogues and temple on Sabbath. Please---put this discussion to an end and clearly state the passage that reads===the 1st day of the week is now the Sabbath. The end of circumcision is clearly stated, the end of the 7th day would be just as clearly stated. Until you find that verse---What God wrote with His own hand on stone---stands.
 
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BobRyan

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There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Christians must keep the Jewish Sabbath.

until you read it. And when you do you find out that even in the NT - the "Sabbath is for mankind" as Christ said in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made FOR mankind" ... details matter.

And of course "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6:2

In the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew and the Sermon on the Plain in Luke

I know ... I know -- There is not one quote of "do not take God's name in vain" or "Love God with all your heart" - in those texts. But you are seriously missing a lot of Bible details going that direction.

(As you have been informed dozens of times so far on that point).

As we see "every Sabbath" they met for Gospel preaching in the Synagogues - in Acts 18:4.

The SDA interpret the Lord of the Sabbath passage to mean the opposite of what it says.

Sadly you failed to make that case as well. As you have been shown dozens of times -- your own pro-Sunday Bible scholars freely admit to this obvious Bible fact. And they are not "SDA". You keep injecting "the SDA interpret" when in fact your own pro-sunday scholars refute you claims about the TEN commandments and specifically about the Sabbath commandment.

Instead of Jesus declaring war on the Word of God, the Commandments of God -- the Sabbath Commandment - Jesus affirms it while condemning those who merely "make stuff up".

And this affirmation of the TEN (all TEN even the Sabbath commandment) is something even your own pro-Sunday scholars love to do.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
 
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eleos1954

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Of what interest to Christians is the writings of someone whose christianity is suspect.

As for sabeth observance the puritans observed no work on sunday and they predated ellen white by several hundred years.

Your argument is faulty.

Jesus and the disciples kept the sabbath and they predated the puritans and ellen white by several hundreds of years and their christianity is certainly not suspect.

1 John 2:6

Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

1 Corinthians 11:1

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

1 Peter 2:21

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.
 
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Dale

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Jesus and the disciples kept the sabbath and they predated the puritans and ellen white by several hundreds of years and their christianity is certainly not suspect.

1 John 2:6

Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

1 Corinthians 11:1

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

1 Peter 2:21

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.


The verses that you cite don't back up the claims that you make. The verses 1 John 2:6, 1 Corinthians 11:1, and 1 Peter 2:21 do not include the word "sabbath" and do not tell us anything about the sabbath.
 
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eleos1954

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The verses that you cite don't back up the claims that you make. The verses 1 John 2:6, 1 Corinthians 11:1, and 1 Peter 2:21 do not include the word "sabbath" and do not tell us anything about the sabbath.

no they don't ... what they do is state we are to walk in the footsteps of Christ and Christ kept the Sabbath ... that was the point I was making.
 
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Dale

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no they don't ... what they do is state we are to walk in the footsteps of Christ and Christ kept the Sabbath ... that was the point I was making.


Jesus went to the synagogue on the sabbath because that is when those meetings were held. The same goes for the Apostles. Paul went to the synagogue but he went there to speak out for Jesus Christ, not to endorse the Jewish sabbath.
 
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eleos1954

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Jesus went to the synagogue on the sabbath because that is when those meetings were held. The same goes for the Apostles. Paul went to the synagogue but he went there to speak out for Jesus Christ, not to endorse the Jewish sabbath.

Mark 2

27 Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man (mankind), not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

It's not the "Jewish sabbath" .... the Sabbath was made for mankind. There were no "jews" on the 7th day of creation ... there was mankind and mankind is who the Sabbath was made for ... all of mankind.

and the Lord blessed the Sabbath and made it holy (set apart). Holy meaning set apart .... set apart from what then?

Genesis 6

4 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it (made it holy - set it apart - apart from all other days): because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Jesus says He is Lord of the Sabbath ... if the 7th day Sabbath has no meaning or importance to Him, why would He state He is Lord (master) over it?

Jesus is/was God .... who knows more about God than God?

Are we not to follow in the footsteps of Christ? Yes we are ... Jesus kept the Sabbath.

1 Peter 2:21

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus went to the synagogue on the sabbath because that is when those meetings were held. .

If you are intent on suggesting that before the cross... while fully under the Old Covenant according to Galatians 4 -- Christ was bent on breaking the commandments of God and only kept them due to circumstances with Jews - then make your case - because all of your own pro-Sunday scholars have refuted your suggestion on that point -- not just Sabbath keeping Christians.
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus went to the synagogue on the sabbath because that is when those meetings were held. The same goes for the Apostles. Paul went to the synagogue but he went there to speak out for Jesus Christ, not to endorse the Jewish sabbath.

As for Paul - if such a situation ever existed then the text would show that each Sabbath Paul invites both Jews and gentiles that are hearing him in the Synagogue - "to tomorrow's Gospel message given on our weekly Lord's Day worship service".

Instead we have even the gentiles hearing the Gospel message then "asking that the message be continued next Sabbath" Acts 13.

More than that "every Sabbath" that keep happening - where the Gospel is being presented "every Sabbath" to even the believers that are accepting the message without a single word of the form " Join me tomorrow for the next Gospel message given on our weekly Lord's Day worship service".

And we DO see in each case - a change once the Synagogue option is shut down -- to some other venue but not while it is open and available. Clearly it is the enemies of the gospel shutting down those Sabbath messages.
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus went to the synagogue on the sabbath because that is when those meetings were held. The same goes for the Apostles. Paul went to the synagogue but he went there to speak out for Jesus Christ, not to endorse the Jewish sabbath.

He spoke to the gentiles on the Sabbath, he never told the gentiles to come back on Sunday. The disciples went there for what they had always gone there for, to worship God.
 
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