Ellen White: Inspired?

[boughtwithaprice]

It's a bit strange you are adding the law that changed in Hebrews 7 was the Sabbath commandment when not one mention of the Sabbath in this entire chapter. If one were to carefully read this chapter would see the law being referred to is the priesthood. Thats the law that changed because Jesus is now our High Priest ministering on our behalf in His Heavenly Kingdom, not an earthy priest.

I commend you in your desire to follow God’s commandments. It is what is missing in non-Catholic Christianity and we bear that to our shame. When people hear “just take Jesus as you savior”, they ask Who is this Jesus and why should I believe Him? That is why He tells us that we are the salt of the Earth, and what good is salt if it has lost its savor? If you love Me, keep My commandments. Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. But people still cling to this cheap grace. The world laughs in scorn. This Jesus had not changed you, how is He different from a Flying Spaghetti Monster and it’s noodle appendage?
But if we keep His commandments, they know we are Christian’s by our love. The Romans knew that the Christians were changed when they were born again. Their behavior was above reproach, but they would not bow to false Roman gods, and that infuriated the authorities, so they had them killed. Now a days it’s the opposite.
In Churches there is a yellow pages called the Shepherd’s guide to show us businesses that were Christian so we could patronize them. People soon found out that those were business to avoid, as they would do a lousy job and try to guilt customers into still using them by saying “don’t you want to do this for the Lord?” What a disgrace. The word of God is blasphemed among the gentiles because of them. I have also found in my professional career that Christians were the most arrogant. I was supposed to bow to them and tell them how great they were, yet they had no humility. Why? Because they are not taught. They think that we are not saved by works so they do nothing to increase virtue, and it is to our shame. Faith, Hope, and Charity are gifts from God that do not come from works. Justice, prudence, temperance and fortitude must be learned by doing or they will never develop. The Bible tells us that we need training in righteousness. Where do we get it? Unless it is taught.
Belief in the Sabbath is more than showing up to meet on Saturday, but doing nothing to increase virtue. Oh and I do not care who you are, It is not virtuous to call fellow Christians the devil and their worship the mark of the beast.
Jesus did not say, if you love me keep the ten commandments, rather if you love me, keep MY commandments. He also said that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Jesus’ commandment is that if you call your brother a fool, you are guilty of hell fire. To me, that is scary that the wrath of God could await me because of my error in judgement. I do not want to call fellow Christians satanic. If I do believe they are satanic, it would cause me great grief and in no way would I be content to laugh at their foolishness. The mind of Christ grieves for all the lost, He does not laugh His head off while they are burning in hell, but as a father that loses his children, it causes Him profound sadness.
To keep holy the Sabbath is to honor God in His Creation. God rested on the Sabbath and all creation stopped. When God creates, the thing created is perfect in it is what it is supposed to be. Evolution states that creation created itself without God and all life sprang forth from lifeless slime. That is why 666 is the number of the beast. 6 is the number of creatures as they are created on the sixth day, and three is the number of God in the Trinity. Evolution is creatures making themselves out to be God. People that understand the Sabbath reject evolution. Theistic evolution is also an insult to God I that it insists that God’s creation is inferior. He created these barely recognizable creatures or a single living cell, and creatures were required to improve upon themselves. That is so arrogant, we honor the Sabbath, not the creature rather than the Creator. Organisms break down over time, not evolve. It is known as genetic entropy, and this happens because sin entered the world through disobedience.
If we believe in the Sabbath, then we believe the same with the Church. God either founded a Church or He did not. Christian teaching did not require two millennia of cultural change to finally understand the Gospel. When God creates something, it is perfect or what it is supposed to be. Thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church.
Note that the Lord says I will build my Church. He did not say I will send a new prophet like Mohammed to correct mistakes, nor did He give anyone permission to build a Church separate from the one founded on Peter. Do you believe in the Sabbath and keep it holy? Then you should know no new churches are created beyond the one. The following did not have permission to build a church, yet they attempted to do so: Luther, Calvin, Tyndall, Zwingli, John Wesley, the Puritans, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russel, Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen G White, Amy Semple McPherson, Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, and thousands of others.
If you believe that they did have permission, then you have to research Catholic magisterial teaching sufficiently to prove that it is apostate, else you are guilty of believing gossip and judging a matter before it is heard. Ellen White did not do that and attempted to condemn the Catholic Church and wound up contradicting scripture in that attempt, as I have previously shown.
I ask you again. Do you believe in the Sabbath, and God created One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, or do you deny the Sabbath and say the Catholic Church was created inferior, and she required human wisdom to perfect the work of God over millennia? Was God’s work insufficient, and you finally got it right after 2000 years? The Bible says unless God builds the house, they labor in vain that build it.
God created His Church without spot or wrinkle, washed in the blood of the Lamb. One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. He is our High Priest, but just like Israel, she had one High priest, but a whole priestly class in the tribe of Levi. Jesus is our High priest, but Catholic priests. carry the charism received from the Apostles when Jesus breathed on them and gave them the power to forgive sins.
If you deny this, Jesus anticipated that it would happen. He likens denying it to blaspheming Him. But take heart, Jesus is the Son of Man, and He says whoever blasphemes the Son of Man can be forgiven. As He said, Father forgive them, they know not what they do. Study the scriptures and Church history to see whether these things are true.
God founded His Church on the first Day of the week on Pentecost. We honor Him by continuing to gather on Sunday and not start a new church that meets on Saturday
That was His Sabbath. He stopped creating Churches on Pentecost. He declared the Old Covenant finished (fulfillled from the cross) “it is finished” The New Covenant began on a Sunday, God rested and saw that His work was perfect, without spot or wrinkle, washed in the blood of the Lamb. Beautiful as a bride adorned for her husband and it is marvelous in our eyes.

 

[BobRyan]

That is not what Ms White said. She disparaged confessing to a person

As almost all Protestants know - we confess our sins to God alone.

But in the case of certain sins committed against another person we confess to the one to whom we have done wrong .

"Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God. Confess your sins one to another. This is the work of God. Confess your sins one to another. This is the Word of God. Confess your sins and forsake your sins. Humble your souls before God. If you do this, just as surely as you make room so that the Holy Spirit of God shall come right into your midst, before you know it, you will find, when the truth is presented in the congregation, you can no more sit and not open your lips. You will say, Praise God, Amen, Good is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and you will find that there will be open lips; and the mind will be absorbing the truth, and that truth sanctifying the heart of the believer. What we want is pure and undefiled religion". 21LtMs, Ms 139, 1906, par. 58

"Here those who are preparing to enter the ministry have an excellent opportunity to begin practical work by overcoming all in the life that is offensive to God. In your school work cherish the highest, holiest principles. Pray as did Daniel—three times a day, alone with God. Confess every sin you have committed, every mistake you have made. If in any way you have injured your fellow students, confess to them also. God says, “Confess your sins one to another, and pray for one for another, that ye may be healed.” [See James 5:16.] Thus you build barriers between yourself and sin. You are walking in harmony with God. He has avouched Himself as one who will hear and answer your sincere and fervent prayers. He has assured you that He will pardon and accept you. How powerful you may be in this assurance! The Lord is near to all who call upon Him—near to answer and to bless. Then let every student pray constantly. You may so live that your instructors will feel that they are walled in by the prayers of faithful, loving disciples". 16LtMs, Lt 144, 1901, par. 14

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Bible tells us that we need training in righteousness. Where do we get it?

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness.

Our version of righteousness doesn't matter, only God can deem what is righteous, and He did. He spoke it, He wrote it Exodus 32:16 and placed it in our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10 Jer 31:33-34 He also said not to add to or take away from His commandments. Deut 4:2. When we start thinking we know better than God, that gets dangerous Isaiah 8:20

Belief in the Sabbath is more than showing up to meet on Saturday,

Agreed- its a full day to honor God on His designated holy day Isaiah 58:13 Exodus 20:10 Genesis 2:1-3 because we cannot sanctify ourselves, only God can Eze 20:12 which is done though the Truth of His Word John 17:17

Jesus did not say, if you love me keep the ten commandments, rather if you love me, keep MY commandments.

Yes, same as what God said right in the Ten Commandments

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

God and Jesus are not at odds with Their laws, Jesus came to do the will of the Father John 6:38 and came to magnify the law- which means make greater not lesser, which is why He taught from the Ten Commandments telling us to not break the least of them Matthew 5:19-30

He also said that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Yes, and heaven and earth are still here and Jesus has not come so not all has been fufilled yet.

To keep holy the Sabbath is to honor God in His Creation.

To keep the Sabbath holy, is to do everything God asks us to do and to follow the example of Jesus which can be found throughout all of the scripture but Isaiah 58:13 is a good start on how to honor God on His holy day.

God rested on the Sabbath and all creation stopped. When God creates, the thing created is perfect in it is what it is supposed to be. Evolution states that creation created itself without God and all life sprang forth from lifeless slime. That is why 666 is the number of the beast. 6 is the number of creatures as they are created on the sixth day, and three is the number of God in the Trinity.

6 is the number of man, its the day man was created- on the sixth day and 666 is a number of a man. Revelation 13:18

If we believe in the Sabbath, then we believe the same with the Church. God either founded a Church or He did not.

He founded a Church and here are some of those characteristics of His Church...
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Christian teaching did not require two millennia of cultural change to finally understand the Gospel. When God creates something, it is perfect or what it is supposed to be. Thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church.

Nonsense- the church is not founded on Peter and Peter is not a rock, but a pebble. The Church Jesus founded was based on Him- Christ is the Rock

Can't be anymore clearer...
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Note that the Lord says I will build my Church. He did not say I will send a new prophet like Mohammed to correct mistakes, nor did He give anyone permission to build a Church separate from the one founded on Peter. Then you should know no new churches are created beyond the one. The following did not have permission to build a church, yet they attempted to do so: Luther, Calvin, Tyndall, Zwingli, John Wesley, the Puritans, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russel, Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen G White, Amy Semple McPherson, Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, and thousands of others.
If you believe that they did have permission, then you have to research Catholic magisterial teaching sufficiently to prove that it is apostate, else you are guilty of believing gossip and judging a matter before it is heard. Ellen White did not do that and attempted to condemn the Catholic Church and wound up contradicting scripture in that attempt, as I have previously shown.

pure conjecture

I ask you again. Do you believe in the Sabbath, and God created One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, or do you deny the Sabbath and say the Catholic Church was created inferior, and she required human wisdom to perfect the work of God over millennia?

There is no scripture that says the Roman catholic church or the catholic church is God's end-time church. God's Church is a remnant who keep the commandment of God Revelation 12:17 KJV, not the church who thought to change times and laws Dan 7:25

God created His Church without spot or wrinkle, washed in the blood of the Lamb. One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

We are known by our fruits, there's plenty of spots and wrinkles in the RCC.

He is our High Priest, but just like Israel, she had one High priest, but a whole priestly class in the tribe of Levi. Jesus is our High priest, but Catholic priests. Carry the charism received from the Apostles when Jesus breathed on them and gave them the power to forgive sins.

You can go to a priest and believe they can forgive sins, but my bible says without shedding of blood there is no remission. Hebrews 9:22. Jesus alone took the penalty for sin His blood, Jesus alone is our High Priest and Mediator- you can place your trust in your earthy priest, for me, my faith is in Jesus Christ who alone saves.

He likens denying it to blaspheming Him.

Satan wants to be like the Most High too and exalt himself above God, and in the end its not going to work out well for him.

Study the scriptures and Church history to see whether these things are true.

I have and sadly, there been so much deception that people blindly follow over the lighted path which is the Word of God Psalms 119:151 and go off in danger depite the clear warnings Isaiah 8:20

God founded His Church on the first Day of the week on Pentecost. We honor Him by continuing to gather on Sunday and not start a new church that meets on Saturday, that was His Sabbath.

Do you have a text that goes along with this? I have yet to find one scripture that says we no longer need to keep the Sabbath commandment and the first day is the new day of worship or that the Sabbath changed in any way. We have free will, for me, I will continue obeying the commandments of God the way God wrote them and how we were instructed Deut 4:2.

He stopped creating Churches on Pentecost. He declared the Old Covenant finished (fulfillled from the cross) “it is finished” The New Covenant began on a Sunday, God rested and saw that His work was perfect, without spot or wrinkle, washed in the blood of the Lamb. Beautiful as a bride adorned for her husband and it is marvelous in our eyes.

The New Covenant was ratified on Friday- it is finished was when He died. He rested on the Sabbath day and kept the Sabbath, even in death and rose on the first day and went back to His Father's work, not once mentioning to anyone about new day of worship. He commissioned the apostles to teach everything He observed- Jesus observed the Sabbath and the holy commandments His entire life and is our example to follow 1 John 2:6.

 

[BobRyan]

you have to research Catholic magisterial teaching sufficiently to prove that it is apostate, else you are guilty of believing gossip and judging a matter before it is heard.

A great many protesting Catholic scholars, priests, church members did that very thing when the Protestant groups were formed and a great many people today continue to do that same kind of sola-scriptura study and comparison to the Word of God vs traditions of man.

I am sure you also know there are "differences" not just between Rome and Protestants , but between Rome and the Orthodox churches as well.

Denominations such as the Catholic Church and Methodists, and Baptists all differ on at least one point of doctrine. Usually a great deal more than just one. I don't think this is something that only Ellen White knew or only Protestants know.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

As almost all Protestants know - we confess our sins to God alone.

But in the case of certain sins committed against another person we confess to the one to whom we have done wrong .

"Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God. Confess your sins one to another. This is the work of God. Confess your sins one to another. This is the Word of God. Confess your sins and forsake your sins. Humble your souls before God. If you do this, just as surely as you make room so that the Holy Spirit of God shall come right into your midst, before you know it, you will find, when the truth is presented in the congregation, you can no more sit and not open your lips. You will say, Praise God, Amen, Good is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and you will find that there will be open lips; and the mind will be absorbing the truth, and that truth sanctifying the heart of the believer. What we want is pure and undefiled religion". 21LtMs, Ms 139, 1906, par. 58

"Here those who are preparing to enter the ministry have an excellent opportunity to begin practical work by overcoming all in the life that is offensive to God. In your school work cherish the highest, holiest principles. Pray as did Daniel—three times a day, alone with God. Confess every sin you have committed, every mistake you have made. If in any way you have injured your fellow students, confess to them also. God says, “Confess your sins one to another, and pray for one for another, that ye may be healed.” [See James 5:16.] Thus you build barriers between yourself and sin. You are walking in harmony with God. He has avouched Himself as one who will hear and answer your sincere and fervent prayers. He has assured you that He will pardon and accept you. How powerful you may be in this assurance! The Lord is near to all who call upon Him—near to answer and to bless. Then let every student pray constantly. You may so live that your instructors will feel that they are walled in by the prayers of faithful, loving disciples". 16LtMs, Lt 144, 1901, par. 14

That is certainly an aspect of it, but it is not the complete story.

As almost all Protestants know - we confess our sins to God alone.

But in the case of certain sins committed against another person we confess to the one to whom we have done wrong .

"Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God. Confess your sins one to another. This is the work of God. Confess your sins one to another. This is the Word of God. Confess your sins and forsake your sins. Humble your souls before God. If you do this, just as surely as you make room so that the Holy Spirit of God shall come right into your midst, before you know it, you will find, when the truth is presented in the congregation, you can no more sit and not open your lips. You will say, Praise God, Amen, Good is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and you will find that there will be open lips; and the mind will be absorbing the truth, and that truth sanctifying the heart of the believer. What we want is pure and undefiled religion". 21LtMs, Ms 139, 1906, par. 58

"Here those who are preparing to enter the ministry have an excellent opportunity to begin practical work by overcoming all in the life that is offensive to God. In your school work cherish the highest, holiest principles. Pray as did Daniel—three times a day, alone with God. Confess every sin you have committed, every mistake you have made. If in any way you have injured your fellow students, confess to them also. God says, “Confess your sins one to another, and pray for one for another, that ye may be healed.” [See James 5:16.] Thus you build barriers between yourself and sin. You are walking in harmony with God. He has avouched Himself as one who will hear and answer your sincere and fervent prayers. He has assured you that He will pardon and accept you. How powerful you may be in this assurance! The Lord is near to all who call upon Him—near to answer and to bless. Then let every student pray constantly. You may so live that your instructors will feel that they are walled in by the prayers of faithful, loving disciples". 16LtMs, Lt 144, 1901, par. 14

A great many protesting Catholic scholars, priests, church members did that very thing when the Protestant groups were formed and a great many people today continue to do that same kind of sola-scriptura study and comparison to the Word of God vs traditions of man.

I am sure you also know there are "differences" not just between Rome and Protestants , but between Rome and the Orthodox churches as well.

Denominations such as the Catholic Church and Methodists, and Baptists all differ on at least one point of doctrine. Usually a great deal more than just one. I don't think this is something that only Ellen White knew or only Protestants know.

The initial Protestants showed all the signs of being heady with rebellion and condemned the Church without cause. They seemed drunk with power and wanted to remake the church in their image. Luther pounding his shoe on the table. Zwingli claiming it’s all symbolic. Calvin preaching the futility of predestination. Wesley trying to add some sanity by preaching the method of worship, but left the Methodists ill equipped for the infiltration of communists in the 20th century. And we have good old Henry who wanted a divorce against the natural law, murdered his wives because they did not bear him a son and declared himself pope of England. Ellen White just jumped on the bandwagon of anti-Catholic sentiment of the time, did a really poor job of condemning Catholic magisterial teaching and is easily refuted on closer inspection of her words, but because the sentiment of the time was that the Pope was evil, her followers did not bother, and still do not bother to see whether her claims were true. They just believed the Catholic Church is bad, nothing to see here, move along.
The reformation did not reform at all, but shattered into what is now 40,000 contradictory denominations. It’s such a mess that a believer has to be dedicated with all his heart and upheld by the grace of God to even begin to figure out what happened.
As Catholics, we confess our sins in the sacrament of confession. We are talking to a man, but he is in personae Christi, by the authority of Jesus Himself when He breathed on the Apostles and gave them the power to forgive sins. We are confessing to Christ in the sacrament and the priest is just His instrument. We submit to the authority of the Church which was given her by Christ alone, and popular opinion cannot take it away. The remnant are those faithful to the faith once delivered to the Saints, because we are living in the Lord’s Sabbath. There is no new formation and there is no RE-formation that is from God. God has rested from His creating. Just as He did with the material world and declared the Sabbath. There is no evolution, only degradation. There is no Spiritual evolution that springs forth from the minds of men, there is only One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Some people disagree? So what? Kings and princes rise up and conspire together against the Lord and His anointed. So what if the Orthodox disagree? With all due respect, do you claim that God is subject to the opinions of men? Human opinion is not evidence to condemn God and His Church about which He promised the gates of hell will not prevail. When we humbly look at ourselves, our opinion is completely irrelevant in light of eternity and God’s truth

 

[BobRyan]

The initial Protestants showed all the signs of being heady with rebellion and condemned the Church without cause.

That is not the way that sola-scriptura testing Protestants view it today or then.

They seemed drunk with power

Power to be "Exterminated" under the law of LATERAN IV that called for the "extermination of heretics"??
Sort of like Huss and Jerome were? Even before Luther came along?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

That is not the way that sola-scriptura testing Protestants view it today or then.

Power to be "Exterminated" under the law of LATERAN IV that called for the "extermination of heretics"??
Sort of like Huss and Jerome were? Even before Luther came along?

You have not formed a church, you have only broken away. Protestants are so manipulated by Satan that they will accept anything. Why did you turn your back on sexual morality?
Why have you turned your back penance?

Talk to a Jehovah’s Witness. They claim sola scriptura also. When I ask them to explain their interpretation, they say we don’t interpret, we leave the interpretation to HIM, but fail to note that they are governed by the decrees of their nine member governing body, the majority of which wishes to reverse the ban on blood transfusions much the way that they reversed the ban on kidney transplants, but it is not a two thirds majority required to change the ruling.
Are they right? Are they sola scripturist?

How do you know? God is not ruled by human opinion. Sola Scriptura has given us nothing but 40,000 differing human opinions, and we know they are wrong because well you know, sola scriptura

When you read the Bible you see that God founded a Church, just like He called a people. The Old Covenant is Israel, the new covenant is the Church. There were not 40,000 nations all running around saying they worship Jehovah. It was the whole world wishing to crush Israel
Back then Satan used the crush and conquer strategy, and he thought he’d won when Jesus was crushed on the cross.
Little did he know that God was one step ahead of him, and Christ’s death brought about salvation for all, and His mighty Church conquered the world. Monarchs had to be coronated by the Bishop, and nations submitted to the Church.
Today Satan uses the Divide and conquer strategy. Get Christians to fight amongst themselves and each one proclaim themselves the sole arbiter of scripture, when it is so apparent that they are ruled by human interpretation of scripture and not scripture itself.

So what if you and other sola scripturists disagree with me. I’ll ask you again, is God ruled by human opinion?

 

[BobRyan]

You have not formed a church, you have only broken away.

you are free to say anything you wish. But it was protesting Catholics that having been dismissed were inclined to correct doctrinal errors and to continue to discover new truths in God's Word just as the early Christians had to set aside some doctrinal/traditional errors in the one truth nation church system started by God at Sinai - and continue to discover new light.

Protestants are so manipulated by Satan that they will accept anything

Protestants typically do not pray to the dead, sell indulgences, call for the extermination of heretics etc. My guess is that you and I both agree on that point - that this is what Protestants are normally found setting aside from the old practices of what some call the dark ages.

Why did you turn your back on sexual morality?

I have no idea what you are talking about there. Was there a protestant reform against morality??

Talk to a Jehovah’s Witness. They claim sola scriptura also.

Indeed they do. They also claim to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus - do you think their big problem is that they pray to the Father in the name of Jesus??

When I ask them to explain their interpretation, they say we don’t interpret

Indeed they claim that the Bible affirms what they say and condemns things like prayers to the dead, and extermination of those who differ with them. In fact they are not known for any massacres at all in the dark ages. Nothing for example like the torture and death of Waldenses, or the St. Bartholomew's day massacre. Still they do have some doctrinal errors when tested "sola scriptura".

When you read the Bible you see that God founded a Church, just like He called a people. The Old Covenant is Israel

Indeed He founded the one true nation-church of Israel at Sinai with infallible scripture and a divinely appointed system of High Priests and successors.

The supposedly "infallible traditions" of which - Christ condemns in Mark 7:6-13 'sola scriptura'. He declared that some of their traditions were condemned by scripture and He did that "Sola Scriptura" in the example He gives in Mark 7.

, Monarchs had to be coronated by the Bishop, and nations submitted to the Church.

The fact that the Papacy took over dominion of the territory of the former pagan Roman Empire is pretty well established in history. The document "The Donation of Constantine" has been used in a number of legal cases to establish the right of the Papacy to be both a religious and civil power entity.

Today Satan uses the Divide and conquer strategy. Get Christians to fight amongst themselves

I am no more in favor of many conflicting doctrines than you appear to be.

But the solution is the Bible.

So what if you and other sola scripturists disagree with me. I’ll ask you again, is God ruled by human opinion?

God gave us the unchanging infallible Word of God as the standard against all doctrine and tradition is to be measured as we see in Mark 7:6-13 and in 2 Tim 3:16

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday ?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

Dates wrong. It's AD 363 not AD 336

Council - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BobRyan]

Dates wrong. It's AD 363 not AD 336

Council - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

will update my note but the Catholic Document has 336. It does look like a typo in their document

The "transfer" language in the 4th century is interesting.

The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine : Father Peter Geiermann, C.Ss.R. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Convert's Catechism aims at presenting Religious Truths in the order of their relative importance to the sincere non-Catholic. It emphasizes controverted...

archive.org

 

[boughtwithaprice]

.

God gave us the unchanging infallible Word of God as the standard against all doctrine and tradition is to be measured as we see in Mark 7:6-13 and in 2 Tim 3:16

Do you see the contradiction in what you are saying?
You state that there is one infallible word of God, yet we all know that there are multiple translations of the Bible. The Jehovah’s witnesses even altered the scriptures they felt problematic with their doctrines. What gave them the right to do that?
What gives you the right to interpret the word of God. We all have our favorite translation. How do you know what is right?

But then you use the words “to be measured AS WE SEE…” not everyone sees as you do, and you are the minority even among Protestants. Are you really sure you are the remnant? What is that basis for that surity? Your opinion?

I asked you why you turned your back on sexual morality because for 1900 years all of Christianity taught that contraception is immoral, yet the modern SDA gives it a pass due to “advances in modern technology” or an appeal to “stewardship” that is not what Jesus taught and it is no where in scripture, yet even with all the fruits of evil present in modern society, you find it acceptable. I find that curious for one that claims to obey all of God’s commands.

As far as the Sabbath, we are in God’s Sabbath. He founded one Church on Peter, and no more will be or have been created. That is the law of the Sabbath. Why do you rightly discard evolution as offense against the Lord’s Sabbath, yet claim spiritual evolution for yourself? That is contradictory thinking. There was no SDA until 1863, maybe 1860
Where was God’s Church before that, and why do you not have a connection to them?

I feel for your predicament as you have always shown yourself to me to be sincere, and you hold as much as you are able to what you believe the word of God to be, yet you appear distracted.

The word of God tells us not to judge a matter until we have heard it, or it is foolishness. I will confess that I need to research the Waldenses, and as far as Lateran condemning heretics. What is the proper response? There are lots of instances of injustice in the past caused by human actions, but does that justify fracturing Christs body? Paul says God forbid.

Eternity is a long time and salvation is precious. Say you had a Satanic cult operating near you and you knew of them. They are kidnapping and sacrificing your children to Satan. The authorities do nothing as they say they have no evidence of a crime and they cannot get a search warrant due to the first amendment. What is your response? Let the innocent and children die? Should they be stopped? Should you use force?
Heresy is a grave matter and not to be taken lightly, as Our Lord says narrow is the way, straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it. I pray that you find it, as it would be a honor to meet you

 

[The Liturgist]

I asked you why you turned your back on sexual morality because for 1900 years all of Christianity taught that contraception is immoral, yet the modern SDA gives it a pass due to “advances in modern technology” or an appeal to “stewardship” that is not what Jesus taught and it is no where in scripture, yet even with all the fruits of evil present in modern society, you find it acceptable. I find that curious for one that claims to obey all of God’s commands.

Really that is very interesting considering the puritanical attitude of Graham and Kellogg (as in the eponymous crackers and children’s cereal) which among other things were hoped by their Adventist manufacturers to interfere with concupiscence and the desire for it. When did the SDA adopt this new position? It also seems strange in light of the admirable moralism we find in EGW, including the practice of conscientious objection to military service, and other things, all of which are in the abstract good even if according to both Scripture and the early Church such things would constitute what the Anglican BCP famously refers to as Acts of Supererogation (which presumably means “above and beyond rogation” as in “Rogation Days” the meaning of which I am sure you are aware).

 

[The Liturgist]

That is not the way that sola-scriptura testing Protestants view it today or then.

Power to be "Exterminated" under the law of LATERAN IV that called for the "extermination of heretics"??
Sort of like Huss and Jerome were? Even before Luther came along?

Neither St. Jan Hus and St. Jerome of Prague, who are in the Eastern Orthodox synaxarion at the insistence of the Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia, which considers them heiromartyrs (for their theology is quintessentially Eastern Orthodox) nor the Waldensians, whose views are obscure but were close enough for Calvinism that the surviving Waldensians enthusiastically embraced it and settled in Switzerland, and since that time the Italian-speaking Waldensians migrated south, merged with another church and adopted Methodist theology and are now the largest Protestant church in Italy.

If I recall one of my objections to gross inaccuracy on the part of EGW was due to her mischaracterization of historical movements and indeed some heretical sects as being Adventist, not quite to the same extent as Landmark Baptists, who are well known for a misguided yet almost invincible confidence in the compatibility of their beliefs with what they incorrectly assume to be the beliefs of various sects whose actual doctrine is attested to in historical literature before the violent and repressive era of the Inquisition by Hellenophone Church Fathers who never engaged to and indeed were opposed to burning people at the stake.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Neither St. Jan Hus and St. Jerome of Prague, who are in the Eastern Orthodox synaxarion at the insistence of the Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia, which considers them heiromartyrs (for their theology is quintessentially Eastern Orthodox) nor the Waldensians, whose views are obscure but were close enough for Calvinism that the surviving Waldensians enthusiastically embraced it and settled in Switzerland, and since that time the Italian-speaking Waldensians migrated south, merged with another church and adopted Methodist theology and are now the largest Protestant church in Italy.

If I recall one of my objections to gross inaccuracy on the part of EGW was due to her mischaracterization of historical movements and indeed some heretical sects as being Adventist, not quite to the same extent as Landmark Baptists, who are well known for a misguided yet almost invincible confidence in the compatibility of their beliefs with what they incorrectly assume to be the beliefs of various sects whose actual doctrine is attested to in historical literature before the violent and repressive era of the Inquisition by Hellenophone Church Fathers who never engaged to and indeed were opposed to burning people at the stake.

Oh dear! I see that the good folks here at CF have inserted American Uncle Sam hats on our personal icons. I don't mind having it over my B so much as I do on your icon. I find that quite disturbing.

As for the historical apologetics used to validate various denominations, I find such an approach to be dodgy, at best. However, in nineteenth-century America with its historically shallow roots, genealogy mattered - extremely. Thus, we have the development of groups such as the Daughters of the American Revolution, not to mention various fraternal organizations. The fact that one of my ancestors arrived in North America in 1735 was very fine, but the fact that a different ancestor arrived in 1635 made a huge difference. So, it comes as no great surprise that the RCC played the history card big time and, in reaction, folks such as Mrs. White, Mr. Smith (of the LDS), and the Landmark Baptists made sincere efforts to lead people to believe that somehow they were the one, true, and only Church because of their claims of historical authenticity (Mr. Smith "restored" Christianity not through valid historic means, but by means of "personal revelation").

 

[BobRyan]

The initial Protestants showed all the signs of being heady with rebellion and condemned the Church without cause.

That is not the way that sola-scriptura testing Protestants view it today or then.

They seemed drunk with power

Power to be "Exterminated" under the law of LATERAN IV that called for the "extermination of heretics"??
Sort of like Huss and Jerome were? Even before Luther came along?

To which we get the following reply...

=====================

Neither St. Jan Hus and St. Jerome of Prague, who are in the Eastern Orthodox synaxarion at the insistence of the Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia, which considers them heiromartyrs (for their theology is quintessentially Eastern Orthodox)

The Extermination decree of Lateran IV 1215

--- then later in 1415 - Jan Hus "exterminated" as an example.
Also true of Jerome of Prague exterminated in 1416.

So while I am glad the Eastern Orthodox do not consider Huss and Jerome to be heretics - apparently Bohemia was under Roman Catholic Papal rule and not under Eastern Orthodox rule at the time.

nor the Waldensians, whose views are obscure but were close enough for Calvinism that the surviving Waldensians enthusiastically embraced it and settled in Switzerland

Not true about "close enough" - according to a Waldensian community that settled in North Carolina and built replicas of the Piedmont area where they were persecuted and "exterminated".

, and since that time the Italian-speaking Waldensians migrated south, merged with another church and adopted Methodist theology and are now the largest Protestant church in Italy.

Methodists are not Calvinist.

If I recall one of my objections to gross inaccuracy on the part of EGW was due to her mischaracterization of historical movements and indeed some heretical sects

You have free will and can object to anything you wish.

 

[BobRyan]

folks such as Mrs. White, Mr. Smith (of the LDS), and the Landmark Baptists made sincere efforts to lead people to believe that somehow they were the one, true, and only Church

SDAs have never said they are the only Christian church or that only SDAs are saved -
They did not say it in the past and do not say it to this day.

But you may not have been striving for accuracy - perhaps you just wanted to demonstrate that you have free will ... which of course you do.

 

[bbbbbbb]

SDAs have never said they are the only Christian church or that only SDAs are saved -
They did not say it in the past and do not say it to this day.

But you may not have been striving for accuracy - perhaps you just wanted to demonstrate that you have free will ... which of course you do.

So, what happened to "Sunday worshippers" after death" according to your understanding of Mrs. White's prophecies?

 

[BobRyan]

So, what happened to "Sunday worshippers" after death" according to your understanding of Mrs. White's prophecies?

And so as an example
the Baptist evangelist William Miller - Ellen White claims he will be in heaven
the Methodist Elder and pastor of Ellen White's church (Ellen Harmon was a Methodist until she married James White) - Ellen White claims he will be in heaven.

Ellen White claimed that the majority of the saints are in non-SDA churches since they are more numerous than SDAs (SDA is now the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world according to a 2015 Christianity Today statement).

So then "saints" , i.e. those people going to heaven.

Your false accusations so far would not lead your readers to suspect this bit of corrective reality was the actual case, now would they?

 

[bbbbbbb]

And so as an example
the Baptist evangelist William Miller - Ellen White claims he will be in heaven
the Methodist Elder and pastor of Ellen White's church (Ellen Harmon was a Methodist until she married James White) - Ellen White claims he will be in heaven.

Ellen White claimed that the majority of the saints are in non-SDA churches since they are more numerous than SDAs (SDA is now the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world according to a 2015 Christianity Today statement)

Did Mrs. White write the following?

“The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God’s law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God”

 

[BobRyan]

Did Mrs. White write the following?

“The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God’s law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God”

It is a tiny snip regarding a prediction about a future event -- in this case an event more than 100 years future to her death... one that has yet to happen.

I suppose you could argue you have a better view of the future than God gave Ellen White.. you have free will and can say anything you wish.

But in this case it is like saying "are you claiming that anyone that does not stand next to Noah, is not alive? or will die of drowning whenever they happen to die?". It is a nonsensical claim because it rips the whole thing out of context.

Do you find claims based on out-of-context snips to be entertaining?