Ellen G. White a Walking Contradiction?

[Richard.20.12]

> God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine.

Couldn't agree more. Amen to that. "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Christians need to treat the Sabbath as a gift to be treasured and anticipated. Its one of the best parts of being a believer. It doesn't have to interfere with Sunday church, either. If anything its easier to observe the Sabbath on Saturday without having to go to church! Sunday is fine for church. Some churches also have services on Saturday afternoon after all if you want. And Friday night. No shortage of church services in most cities.

 

[tall73]

No, this is incorrect, Pastor Doug is filmed talking about Ellen broadcasted throughout the World. This constant Adventist bashing of false information is getting a bit much. Pastor Doug broadcasts all of his sermons and references of Ellen "are not edited out". Doug has thousands of people in attendance, there is no screening at the door. These false allegations are getting ridiculous.

I was not alleging that he edits his sermons, or that they screen out people from entering the audience for his church services, or even for the Sabbath School time he broadcasted.

But when there are evangelistic events geared to outsiders then he does not begin with Ellen White. And that is true of nearly all of the Adventist evangelistic events.

So if the poster is indicating he has not heard Doug quote her much, that may be because he is watching videos from evangelistic events, not because he wants to lie about him. He said he likes Doug's teaching.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I was not alleging that he edits his sermons, or that they screen out people from entering the audience for his church services, or even for the Sabbath School time he broadcasted

But when there are evangelistic events geared to outsiders then he does not begin with Ellen White. And that is true of nearly all of the Adventist evangelistic events.

So if the poster is indicating he has not heard Doug quote her much, that may be because he is watching videos from evangelistic events, not because he wants to lie about him. He said he likes Doug's teaching.

You are changing what you originally stated because it was proven to be a false statement.

But he definitely regards Ellen White. They just talk about Ellen White when there are no outsiders around.

Take care.

 

[tall73]

You are changing what you originally stated because it was proven to be a false statement.


Take care.

I was pointing out why Doug does not talk about Ellen White during outreach events. But I could have phrased the last sentence better. Ellen White is usually more referenced at church events for members, etc. I was agreeing with you that Doug does regard Ellen White, and explaining why he might not have heard that mentioned as much.

Saying the other poster was lying was not warranted. There is a good deal of content by Doug that does not quote Ellen White much because it is from evangelistic meetings.

 

[Richard.20.12]

I was not alleging that he edits his sermons, or that they screen out people from entering the audience for his church services, or even for the Sabbath School time he broadcasted.

But when there are evangelistic events geared to outsiders then he does not begin with Ellen White. And that is true of nearly all of the Adventist evangelistic events.

So if the poster is indicating he has not heard Doug quote her much, that may be because he is watching videos from evangelistic events, not because he wants to lie about him. He said he likes Doug's teaching.

My sources of Doug Bachelor are largely from torrent sites but it sounds like most are with an Adventist audience because he mentions Adventism frequently in them. He doesn't dwell on it of course. My point is I almost never hear him droning on about White. Its usually a very brief mention. I find Bachelor one of the best teachers in Christiandom, especially anything Old Testament related. And wonder of wonders, he's apparently Jewish. What a surprise.

Now here's something interesting. Here is is page from his website Amazing Facts. Do a word search for Adventist on this page. You won't see it anywhere.
About Pastor Doug | Amazing Facts
That's like a neon sign.
Its not on their home page either.
Now he is the pastor of an Adventist church in California - that's on the website. So he hasn't divested of them yet. We can only hope.

It is curious why Christians can't just read their Bible and be joined from nothing but that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

My sources of Doug Bachelor are largely from torrent sites but it sounds like most are with an Adventist audience because he mentions Adventism frequently in them. He doesn't dwell on it of course. My point is I almost never hear him droning on about White. Its usually a very brief mention. I find Bachelor one of the best teachers in Christiandom, especially anything Old Testament related. And wonder of wonders, he's apparently Jewish. What a surprise.

Now here's something interesting. Here is is page from his website Amazing Facts. Do a word search for Adventist on this page. You won't see it anywhere.
About Pastor Doug | Amazing Facts
That's like a neon sign.
Its not on their home page either.
Now he is the pastor of an Adventist church in California - that's on the website. So he hasn't divested of them yet. We can only hope.

It is curious why Christians can't just read their Bible and be joined from nothing but that.

Let me help clear up the misunderstandings.

Pastor Doug is half Jewish and not raised "Orthodox" or raised with a religious background. His testimony is on the very page you linked to.

My Testimony - The Richest Caveman - 2009 | Amazing Facts with Doug Batchelor | Amazing Facts

AmazingFacts is not an official SDA site nor owned by the SDA church, but its no hidden secret that Doug is SDA as it is stated often and on his testimony that you linked to.

Here is the official site of the church Doug pastor's and being SDA is not a secret or anything he is "embarrassed" by, which seems to be a case you're trying to make. Granite Bay Hilltop Seventh Day Adventist Church (granitebaysda.org)

Pastor Doug does talk about Ellen but focuses on the Bible scripture, which is what even Ellen White teaches. I agree Pastor Doug is a great teacher. He is the first pastor I can get my husband to listen to! I personally get a lot of blessings from his sermons and miss going to his church.

 

[Richard.20.12]

I just think that if "Adventist" is not mentioned anywhere on his website description and in the About area for him he trying to minimize its effect on his ministry. Some might find that evasive. Then again many people discount a group and they know nothing about it.

 

[chad kincham]

EGW: "In like manner, when the work of atonement in the heavenly sanctuary has been completed, then in the presence of God and heavenly angels and the hosts of the redeemed the sins of God's people will be placed upon Satan; he will be declared guilty of all the evil which he has caused them to commit." The Great Controversy, page 658."

I definitely disagree with this - the scapegoat having sins placed upon him represents Jesus (not Satan) who bore our sins in His own body and paid the penalty of them, which is death - and when He said ‘it is finished’ He was done atoning for our sins.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I definitely disagree with this - the scapegoat having sins placed upon him represents Jesus (not Satan) who bore our sins in His own body and paid the penalty of them, which is death - and when He said ‘it is finished’ He was done atoning for our sins.

That would be the major error of the book The Great Controversy. It seems that if Satan bears our sins, what good is Christ's sacrificial death? Also, Satan does not cause us to sin. We choose it ourselves by our own free will, else where is our guilt? Why are we being punished? The Devil made me do it!
In psychology, this is called projection. We accuse someone or something else of the guilt which we own. That is not to say that we are not tempted by Satan. He is very crafty and tempts us with pride, lust and doubt the same way he tempted Our Lord in the desert, but we choose whether we give into temptation or not. The guilt is ours

 

[Richard.20.12]

> In psychology, this is called projection.

I would say, "In reality, this is called a lack of common sense."
The more I read of her the more perplexed I am she has any followers or admirers at all. Maybe there are more people than I suspected with reading disabilities. Note the flowery language. She is trying to appear to write with weight and authority but what she's saying is mere drivel. Zero content with lots of ornamentation. Its like walking up to a grand entrance to a building, opening the ornate door, and seeing nothing inside.

 

[chad kincham]

> In psychology, this is called projection.

I would say, "In reality, this is called a lack of common sense."
The more I read of her the more perplexed I am she has any followers or admirers at all. Maybe there are more people than I suspected with reading disabilities. Note the flowery language. She is trying to appear to write with weight and authority but what she's saying is mere drivel. Zero content with lots of ornamentation. Its like walking up to a grand entrance to a building, opening the ornate door, and seeing nothing inside.

Same thing with claiming we have to keep the sabbath day command given only to Israel as a covenant sign, and memorial of their being set free from bondage in Egypt.

Deu 5:15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and Jehovah thy God brought thee out thence by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm: therefore Jehovah thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily YE shall keep my sabbaths: for it is A SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye may know that I am Jehovah who sanctifieth YOU.

 

[The Liturgist]

That would be the major error of the book The Great Controversy. It seems that if Satan bears our sins, what good is Christ's sacrificial death? Also, Satan does not cause us to sin. We choose it ourselves by our own free will, else where is our guilt? Why are we being punished? The Devil made me do it!
In psychology, this is called projection. We accuse someone or something else of the guilt which we own. That is not to say that we are not tempted by Satan. He is very crafty and tempts us with pride, lust and doubt the same way he tempted Our Lord in the desert, but we choose whether we give into temptation or not. The guilt is ours

Indeed, this fact is why I find it so troubling that Adventist churches seldom if ever have crosses either in the sanctuary or on the steeple or building exterior.

How can we preach Christ Crucified as St. Paul instructs, without the Holy and Life Giving Cross?

 

[Richard.20.12]

I'm not clear on your post. Are you saying we should keep the Sabbath or have you found something in the Bible that tells us we shouldn't or don't need to anymore?

 

[Richard.20.12]

Indeed, this fact is why I find it so troubling that Adventist churches seldom if ever have crosses either in the sanctuary or on the steeple or building exterior.
How can we preach Christ Crucified as St. Paul instructs, without the Holy and Life Giving Cross?

Is there any cross used in the Bible outside of the crucifixion? I can't find anything. Just did a word search in the New Testament and there isn't one instance of the symbol of the cross used anywhere. Read your Bible. If its not specified in there, we don't need it. Do the Adventists believe in the crucifixion? If so, that's it. That's your real cross. The cross symbolizes adversity in our lives. "Take up your cross" is used many times to signify a workload or task we may not want to do. No need for crosses on your walls everywhere. Catholics are just like Ellen White. They make up tons of stuff and pretend its Biblical. Well nobody in the Bible ever prayed to Mary. And nobody thought she was a saint or above any other person. She was highly respected of course because of her unwavering obedience but many people demonstrated that level of obedience. Did she risk her life? No. She abstained from sex for a few months. Wow. How heroic. And the pope is not infallible. He makes mistakes like every other person on the planet. And nobody can forgive sins except God. Catholicism is like a train that went too fast and left the tracks of common sense.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Is there any cross used in the Bible outside of the crucifixion? I can't find anything. Just did a word search in the New Testament and there isn't one instance of the symbol of the cross used anywhere. Read your Bible. If its not specified in there, we don't need it. Do the Adventists believe in the crucifixion? If so, that's it. That's your real cross. The cross symbolizes adversity in our lives. "Take up your cross" is used many times to signify a workload or task we may not want to do. No need for crosses on your walls everywhere. Catholics are just like Ellen White. They make up tons of stuff and pretend its Biblical. Well nobody in the Bible ever prayed to Mary. And nobody thought she was a saint or above any other person. She was highly respected of course because of her unwavering obedience but many people demonstrated that level of obedience. Did she risk her life? No. She abstained from sex for a few months. Wow. How heroic. And the pope is not infallible. He makes mistakes like every other person on the planet. And nobody can forgive sins except God. Catholicism is like a train that went too fast and left the tracks of common sense.

You should not mock what you do not understand. The things you say about Mary are false and derogatory. The facts are, she was the first Christian. She is the woman promised from Genesis. "I will put enmity between thee and the woman...." She had the second person of the Trinity growing inside her, and she nursed Him from a babe. She was closer to God than any other Christian that ever lived.
You should not speak evil of her.
Consider this. God is not a politician, as in the USA, that gives commands to us that He Himself would not also follow. He commands us to honor our mother and father. He honored His Father perfectly during His earthly life and ministry. Would He not honor His mother? Are you saying God does not do that?
I would not recommend that you speak evil, or fail to show respect to our Lord's mother

 

[Richard.20.12]

> You should not mock what you do not understand. The things you say about Mary are false and derogatory. The facts are, she was the first Christian.

Where in the Bible does it say she was the first Christian? I've never heard that claim. Not that being the first in anything is usually very important. Its what you do that's important. And you're not Christian by giving birth to someone. You're Christian by your own beliefs.

> She is the woman promised from Genesis. "I will put enmity between thee and the woman...."

What? God was talking about Adam and Eve, not Mary. Where do you get your interpretations from?

> She had the second person of the Trinity growing inside her, and she nursed Him from a babe. She was closer to God than any other Christian that ever lived.

Where in the Bible does it say "she was closer to God than any other"? She was a woman. A blessed woman. But a woman. Who sinned. As a Catholic can you admit to us that Mary was a sinner, that she made mistakes during her life?

> You should not speak evil of her.

I'm not at all! Did I not say we admire her obedience? Like we do with all obedient followers of the Lord? I'm pointing out that abstinence from sex is not exactly earth shaking. Or am I missing some colossal sacrifice she made for a few months? Many DIED for their allegiance. Mary never had to make that ultimate sacrifice, did she?

> Consider this. God is not a politician, as in the USA, that gives commands to us that He Himself would not also follow. He commands us to honor our mother and father. He honored His Father perfectly during His earthly life and ministry. Would He not honor His mother?

What did Jesus say to Mary when she prodded Him to change the water to wine? What was the tone of His voice? To me it sounds like exasperation. "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" To me that's pretty blunt. By addressing her as "woman" He is equating her with all the others so she doesn't expect special treatment given his powers.

I believe He is warning Catholics of later years against putting her on a pedestal. He knew the problems that were coming! The focus should always be on Him and no other. Not some saint the Catholics elevate, not Mary, not the Pope. Just Jesus and only Jesus. But Catholics have real problems with statements like that. Because they have embraced idolization. They idolize Mary, their saints and the Pope. And their local priest probably. And when you give any person a lot of power they tend not to handle that power perfectly. Human nature - its a problem.

> I would not recommend that you speak evil, or fail to show respect to our Lord's mother.

I didn't and would never do that, just as I would never speak evil or fail to show respect to any Biblical hero. Its just to me, she is "blessed among women". She is nowhere near as important as so many others. She isn't even mentioned after the water to wine incident until He gets crucified! Is she mentioned much after He rose and ascended to Heaven? I don't think so!

 

[Richard.20.12]

Hey boughtwithaprice! What about my comments on physical crosses? Are they mentioned anywhere in the Bible? I couldn't find any but maybe I missed them?

Look at your name. Its all about Jesus, isn't it? Not who gave Him birth. Thank you for that. At least you got your priorities straight selecting your username. Now let's see if we can get your priorities straight on other Biblical topics by going to the Bible, NOT the church who is run by very fallible people. The Bible is a better reference than our local priest/pastor/reverend/church leader. Always has been, always will be. Because its not written by man. Its inspired by God. Big difference.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Hey boughtwithaprice! What about my comments on physical crosses? Are they mentioned anywhere in the Bible? I couldn't find any but maybe I missed them?

Look at your name. Its all about Jesus, isn't it? Not who gave Him birth. Thank you for that. At least you got your priorities straight selecting your username. Now let's see if we can get your priorities straight on other Biblical topics by going to the Bible, NOT the church who is run by very fallible people. The Bible is a better reference than our local priest/pastor/reverend/church leader. Always has been, always will be. Because its not written by man. Its inspired by God. Big difference.

well first the Bible was written and canonized by the Catholic Church. You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church. Jesus gave Peter the keys of kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not say I will write my book, but build my Church.
If all we had was a book, we would have the thousands of denominations we have now, because man is disobedient. Christ founded a Church not a book in order to establish authority, and He promised the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
Second, Mary is the first Christian because we say Christ in you, the hope of glory. She was the first person to literally have Christ in her, and the babe John the Baptist lept for joy when she approached Elizabeth. The Hail Mary is taken directly from the Bible in the Gospel of Luke. Gabriel says Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee, and Elizabeth cries out blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb. Elizabeth calls her the mother of my Lord.
Mary is preserved sinless by the grace of God, as Gabriel calls her full of grace. She possesses the full measure of God’s grace according to the Bible. Is it your contention that God’s grace is insufficient to save us from sin? She calls God her savior because it is by His grace that she is preserved sinless, not by her own nature. She is full of grace
She also shows her perpetual virginity by her words to Gabriel. If she had been planning on having children with Joseph, she would have been overjoyed at Gabriel’s words. Joseph and I will bear a king? She did not say that because she made a vow of virginity, how can these things be since I know not man?
If you really want to contend that she had children with Jospeh, you would have to go outside the Bible, as no verse says and Joseph knew his wife and she bore him children. If that were true, who committed adultery? Was it God by having a child with another man’s wife, or was it Joseph that had children with God’s wife? You can see that position is biblically untenable.
We believe Jesus is fully God and fully human. Neither the Trinity nor the hypostatic union appear in scripture alone, but were developed by Church councils. Do you believe in the Trinity and the hypostatic Union? Then it is easy to call Mary the mother of God, as the baby in her was God, and she was His mother
There is no biblical inconsistency in Catholic teaching, thoughts or actions

 

[ChetSinger]

Looks like a subject for a different thread.

 

[BobRyan]

“If ye had known Me,” Christ said, “ye should have known My Father also: and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him.” But not yet did the disciples understand. “Lord, show us the Father,” exclaimed Philip, “and it sufficeth us.” {DA 663.4}

"Amazed at his dullness of comprehension, Christ asked with pained surprise, “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip?” Is it possible that you do not see the Father in the works He does through Me? Do you not believe that I came to testify of the Father? “How sayest thou then, Show us the Father?” “He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father.” Christ had not ceased to be God when He became man. Though He had humbled Himself to humanity, the Godhead was still His own. Christ alone could represent the Father to humanity, and this representation the disciples had been privileged to behold for over three years. {DA 663.5}

“Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me: or else believe Me for the very works’ sake.” Their faith might safely rest on the evidence given in Christ’s works, works that no man, of himself, ever had done, or ever could do. Christ’s work testified to His divinity. Through Him the Father had been revealed. {DA 664.1}

How could Jesus stop being God and then tell the crowd that "my Father and I are one"? And several other passages equating Himself to God. I don't get how Adventists can wander so far from the Bible. Apparently they study it a lot. Maybe they just skip some parts! Tis a mystery.

Where do you find "stop being God"???