Elder Ephraim

[nicodemus]

...all Orthodox are as cold as ice.

I'm sorry if that has been your experience, but I can assure you it is far from the truth. When my wife was kicked out of her home, the Orthodox provided much help (both spiritual and material) to her and she wasn't even a Christian at the time.

 

[Euthymius]

Nicodemus, the only reason they helped her, was probably because she has either advanced degrees from a presitgius school, or she is rich. Had your wife been a regular person in society, they would not have given her the time of day. Orthodoxy favors the rich and educated. That's why they MADE Father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas saints.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Nicodemus, the only reason they helped her, was probably because she has either advanced degrees from a presitgius school, or she is rich. Had your wife been a regular person in society, they would not have given her the time of day. Orthodoxy favors the rich and educated. That's why they MADE Father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas saints.

Are you really Orthodox? You don't seem to like it?

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Nicodemus, the only reason they helped her, was probably because she has either advanced degrees from a presitgius school, or she is rich. Had your wife been a regular person in society, they would not have given her the time of day. Orthodoxy favors the rich and educated. That's why they MADE Father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas saints.

Hold up. Didn't you just attack me for having an Icon of the Bl. Seraphim Rose who you said was not a Saint in the Church? Now you're claiming he's a Saint in the Church? Plus, do you really think the Church is going to make Fr. Rose a Saint because he was rich? What exactly would the Church gain from doing that? Also, you can't be Orthodox in you think the Church is fallible.

 

[MariaRegina]

Nicodemus, the only reason they helped her, was probably because she has either advanced degrees from a presitgius school, or she is rich. Had your wife been a regular person in society, they would not have given her the time of day. Orthodoxy favors the rich and educated. That's why they MADE Father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas saints.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

The Holy Orthodox Church is the Bride of Christ.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us and save us.

 

[MariaRegina]

Euthymius,

Some of the wealthy Greek "Orthodox in name only" attack the Holy Orthodox Church because their own children are being called to monastism. Metropolitan Maximus of Cyprus (the same Father Maximos in the book The Mountain of Silence) had many encounters with wealthy Greeks who came to him with the intention of killing him because their sons and daughters had entered monasticm. This holy hieromonk led these Greeks back to the Holy Orthodox Church.

Why are a lot of wealthy children called to monasticism? They have time on their hands. They don't have to work hard for a living, so they can read good books and think. They realize "What does it profit them to gain the whole world but to lose their souls." They begin to repent and give up all their wealth to follow Christ. However, the monastic life isn't for the faint of heart. It takes commitment and strength to die a martyr's death, because monasticism is a life of martyrdom -- a life of self-denial. It's not a bed of roses.

 

[prodromos]

Bi-location? lol Orthodox people need to get control and stop spreading this kind of nonsense. There is a huge difference between fantasy and reality.

You are quite correct, the proper term would be translocation since they are not existing in two places at once but rather being removed from one place to another just as Philip was after he baptised the Ethiopian eunuch.

Acts 8:39-40
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

Thank you for pointing out the error

John.

 

[MariaRegina]

You are quite correct, the proper term would be translocation since they are not existing in two places at once but rather being removed from one place to another just as Philip was after he baptised the Ethiopian eunuch.

Acts 8:39-40
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

Thank you for pointing out the error

John.

Great observation John!

However, I read the account of how one of the Russian Hieromonks did bilocate from Russia to instruct the Alaskan Native Americans before he came to North America. These natives were waiting for him to baptize them. This is why some of the Alaskan natives accepted the Orthodox faith so readily.

 

[Yana]

Bi-location? lol Orthodox people need to get control and stop spreading this kind of nonsense. There is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. It's this kind of story-telling gossip that has saturated the Orthodox Church in America. Where there is such an enormous spiritual vacuum, that people have to invent things like this.

Speaking about Arizona, this is a fact, not an invention. I know of a person who wrote them in desperation wanting to commit suicide. The only reply he got was "God cares." That was it. No advice, no consolation. These people ( like all Orthodox ) are as cold as ice. And no, Iam not a priest with an agenda. Iam in the Greek Archdiocese and what I said is the truth. Your conspiracy theories won't work here. Sorry.

Great Lent has started! Don't you think it's the time to finally start looking inside YOURSELF?

 

[Suzannah]

By the way, I resent the icon of Father Seraphim Rose on this site. This icon assumes ( before canonization ) that he was a saint, when he clearly was not. The only reason there is so much hype over Father Seraphim, is because he was a good-looking man, with a Graduate degree from a prestigious institute. He wrote books. So what? That does NOT make him a saint. People don't make saints, GOD DOES. Had Father Seraphim not been very attractive, and not been educated, the Orthodox communuty would not have given him the time of day.

And I sort of really resent people coming here to the Ancient Way with the express intent of causing division and hurt feelings among the Orthodox . Shame on you!

ps. Can't help but observe that your post is full envy: "He wrote books. So what?.....Had Father Seraphim not been very attractive, and not been educated, the Orthodox communuty would not have given him the time of day." Hmmmmmm....the acrid smell of envy and materialism.....
So what? He wrote books, so what? You have to be kidding.

 

[Euthymius]

Please forgive me. The demons got the better of me. Subtle is the way of Satan. Everything I said was pure nonsense. Disregard everything I said. I was in a bad mood. I venerate our holy father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas of Russia. And the father's in Arizona are wonderful. I hope to be saved through their prayers.

 

[MariaRegina]

Please forgive me. The demons got the better of me. Subtle is the way of Satan. Everything I said was pure nonsense. Disregard everything I said. I was in a bad mood. I venerate our holy father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas of Russia. And the father's in Arizona are wonderful. I hope to be saved through their prayers.

God forgives and I forgive.

Hope you are feeling better. Take care!

 

[Photini]

Please forgive me. The demons got the better of me. Subtle is the way of Satan. Everything I said was pure nonsense. Disregard everything I said. I was in a bad mood. I venerate our holy father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas of Russia. And the father's in Arizona are wonderful. I hope to be saved through their prayers.

We all have our days.
We're always happy to see new Orthodox "faces" here.

Join us in the Taverna and tell us a little about yourself.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1859185#post1859185

 

[Suzannah]

Please forgive me. The demons got the better of me. Subtle is the way of Satan. Everything I said was pure nonsense. Disregard everything I said. I was in a bad mood. I venerate our holy father Seraphim and Zar Nicholas of Russia. And the father's in Arizona are wonderful. I hope to be saved through their prayers.

Well, I'm glad you were able to offer this but I am the worst of all sinners...so you are in good company. I do want to say tho' that I hope you will not wait on the prayers of the Fathers and instead work out your own salvation....come over to the Taverna and have a spot of breakfast...

 

[Selene]

We are not to judge -- and you just admitted that you are judging Elder Ephraim on hearsay. Furthermore, the OCL has published hearsays - not a reputable group -- and to be attacking a priest!

His Eminence Metropolitan Anthony of Oakland, California, has personally been to Father Ephraim's monasteries. In fact, the Metropolitan had a retreat for Priests at the monastery in Florence, Arizona. I don't know any priests who attack Father Ephraim except those allied with the OCL.

Again, why do you believe hearsay and gossip.

Hello,

This is my first time on this forum so please forgive me if this question is answered already. A pious friend feels like her marriage was hurt by being part of Elder Ephraim's group (I guess that means under one of his priests) - she said that under him married couples aren't supposed to have marital relations except for procreation. That can't be what Elder Ephraim teaches, can it?

Forgive me, I mean no offence. But I have actually heard this other places too, and I know it may just be slander but wanted to ask.

 

[prodromos]

Dear Selene,

Welcome to Christian Forums and particularly The Ancient Way. I hope you stick around and become a part of the community here.

It's my understanding that every sexual act must be open to the possibility of conception, otherwise sex becomes a selfish act, gratifying the desires of the flesh. This may seem harsh as I'm certain most people don't think of sex in terms of seeking pleasure for pleasures sake but rather in terms of giving pleasure to their spouse, but deep down I think we can all find selfish motivation. God made us male and female so that we could produce children and he blessed procreation by making it a very pleasurable experience, it isn't the other way around. This is what the church teaches, it is not specifically the teaching of Elder Ephraim.

Having said that, it must be understood that not all are at a point where they are able to accept the above teaching. A spiritual father needs to be able to discern where a person is in their walk with Christ and tailor the medicine and dosage accordingly. As with all medicine, the wrong dosage of the right medicine can cause harm, even death. Unfortunately, some monks (not just those under Elder Ephraim, and not all those under him) are too concerned with the letter of the law and forget the spirit behind it (2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant?not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.). It is alright for them to be strict with themselves as they are already trained in discipline, but they must be gentle and compassionate with those who are not so trained and come to them for guidance. This is what we find in the lives of the great spiritual fathers. They demanded the utmost obedience of themselves, pushing themselves to ever harsher ascetic labours, yet they never demanded the same of their spiritual children.

Obedience, humility and mortification of the flesh are key to spiritual growth in Orthodoxy. These come easily for those who have grown up in countries where life is a constant struggle either through war or economic hardship, however they are much harder to come by in the West where we have everything given to us in abundance and have so many "rights". It is becoming this way in the East as well. For example, in the monasteries on Mount Athos, most monks sleep on a board and have done so from the day they became monks because they were already used to such hardship. Many of the recent novices and monks, however, have been permitted to sleep on a mattress for the time being because that is what they are used to and would find it too difficult a change to sleep as the other monks do right away. This is how it should have been with your friend.

I should note that in the past my wife and I have used condoms because we did not think circumstances were right for us to have more children then. We regret that now that we are trying to have more children as we have not been able to conceive and we are not getting any younger. We can't complain though. God has blessed these unworthy parents with three wonderful children

God bless,

John.

 

[Selene]

Dear John,

Thank you for your kind reply. I am still troubled. Monks have a heck of a time being celibate in a monastery or in the desert and with trapeza readings and services every day, so it seems a lot to ask (sometimes demand?) of lay people in the world. Saint John of the Ladder said the monk should not even look at the fruit they vowed never to taste, yet some people are being asked to live with a woman and be celibate (financial resources or the welfare of children may not allow married couples to live seperately).

Saint Paul says, "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer: and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." Christ Himself said the marriage bed is undefiled. Saint John Chrysostom says, "Sex is not evil; it is a gift from our God. But it can become a hindrance to someone who desires to devote all his strength to a life of self-control."

Celibacy is angelic, but so is keeping vigil all night and being completely free of anger and always kind, or eating once a day. It seems odd to focus on marital celibacy (which seems like an exception in the lives of Saints, and when it occurred God revealed it to the community in one way or another, or to the ruling bishop) and elevate it over so many other things that are also very important. The Optina Elders were clarvoyant and God-bearing yet they never considered marital relations bad or encouraged people to abstain from them (not that people weren't free to do so if they chose, in those rare instances, like Saint John of Kronstadt).

I believe it is in the life of one of the Saint Marcariuses that God revealed to the Saint that there were two women in the city that were married to two brothers and lived in the same household and did not keep themselves from their husbands' beds, yet surpassed the Saint (because they never spoke a worldly word or quarrelled once in all their years living together).

Of note, I am very happily single and celibate and plan on staying that way. Even if I don't agree with pushing celibacy in marriage, I very much appreciate your kindness in taking the time to explain and to clarify.

Thank you! Forgive me.

In Christ, with prayers,
Selene

 

[MariaRegina]

There are a few Catholic monks (non Uniate) who also teach that sex should only be used for procreating -- so that couples, where women are post-menopausal or the men impotent or whatever, are told never to have sex again. St. John of Kronstadt and his wife observed the vow of chastity from the beginning of their marriage so that they could be faithful to their thousands of spiritual children.

Yes, the couple must be mature spiritually ... but sometimes they will lie to their spiritual fathers and pridefully appear to be more spiritual than they really are. This is why it is so necessary to carefully reveal ones thoughts and temptations to the priest in confession as well. Unless that priest is a saint with a special gift, how will he know where a couple is at? I think we assume too much from our priests - they are sinful humans like us and need our prayers.

However unless we reveal our sinful nature to our priest completely, he cannot heal our infirmities through the Holy Sacrament of Confession.

Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

 

[Suzannah]

John and Elizabeth: Thank you both so much for clearing this up for everyone.

 

[nicodemus]

I think that monk's particular teaching that sex is for procreation only is an aberration. My spiritual father's spiritual father is in one of the monasteries under the guidance of Elder Ephraim and I've never had this teaching conveyed to me. Like Prodromos said, the opportunity to have a child (meaning no birth control) is generally understood to be the norm between husband and wife. The priest at my parish is pretty strict in the sense that he doesn't deviate from rules and he's always expressed to me that sex is a normal thing between husband and wife and that it helps them develop deeper love for one another in addition to procreating.