Elder Ephraim

[Yana]

I know some of the Elder's spiritual children many of whom are young married couples and I personally have never heard from them or even from the Elder himself use marital relations only to have children. What I know for sure is that abstaining from sex the day before you receive Holy Communion and also during fasts is a rule.

Speaking of Elder Ephraim I can only quote Christ's own words: "Blessed are you when men revile and prosecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My name's sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven."
The Elder is full of love and peace. He is an angel, a true warrior of Christ to whom he dedicated his whole life. Holy Father say that if you are not ready to fulfill the Elder's advice, don't ask. But if you asked, tried to carry it out and God will help you.

We cannot even truly understand what kind of sacrifice he is making for our sake, for prayer is his life and all he desired is to constantly abide in prayer. But for the spiritual benefit of those who come to him he constantly receives them and answers thousands of letters from around the world.
He is a holy man, a man of prayer in whom Holy Spirit dwells.

 

[Selene]

Well, this is curious, and confusing. The original reply to my question asking (apologetically and as politely as I could) if it was true that celibacy was required/strongly suggested in marriage after the desired number of children, I thought was a basically affirmative reply - or at least for those who were spiritually mature enough, and that sex even in mariage was a selfish act unless it was for kids.

Now there is a response to my query saying "Blessed are you when men revile and persecute you", leaving me with the impression that those who say (like my friend) that their priest told them sex was only for procreation are slandering and reviling Elder Ephraim.

Of note, Saint John of Kronstadt and his wife did not take vows of celibacy, and his wife even brought him before the church authorities because she wanted children.

Well, my question is unanswered but I guess I should mind my own business. (I like Nicodemus' answer and hopefully that reflects reality, and maybe my friend's priest was an exception. But really, it is none of my business.) Forgive me.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[prodromos]

she said that under him married couples aren't supposed to have marital relations except for procreation

Dear Selene,

I understood this to mean that every sexual act should be open to the possibility of conception, not that we are to remain celibate unless we expressly wish to conceive.

Something else to consider is that there are far fewer opportunities for an Orthodox couple to have sexual intercourse than most people due to the number of days that should be spent fasting. If we look at this year's calendar we have the following:

In January we fast on Monday the 5th (the day before Epiphany) and every Wednesday and Friday except those between Christmas and Epiphany, 9 days.

In February we have one week where we fast Wednesday and Friday (we don't fast the first week or cheese fair week) until Lent begins on the 23rd, a total of 9 days

In March we fast the whole month, 31 days

In April we fast until Pascha on the 11th then don't fast for Bright week, leaving only two weeks with Wednesday and Friday to fast, a total of 14 days

In May we have four weeks of Wednesday and Friday to fast, 8 days

In June we do not fast for the first week following Pentecost, but then have the Holy Apostles fast up until the 29th, 22 days

In July we have four weeks of Wednesday and Friday to fast, 8 days

In August we fast the first two weeks before the Dormition of Mary then have two weeks of Wednesday and Friday plus a strict fast on the 29th (the beheading of Prodromos), 19 days

In September there are four weeks of Wednesday and Friday plus a strict fast on the 14th (the Elevation of the Holy Cross), 9 days

In October there are four weeks of Wednesday and Friday plus the Friday on the 1st, 9 days

In November we have two weeks of Wednesday and Friday before we begin the Nativity fast on the 15th, 20 days

In December, the Nativity fast continues until the 24th after which we do not fast until Epiphany, 24 days

So the total number of days where we are fasting in 2004 (and hence abstaining from sexual activity) are 182 out of 365, so we are actually required to abstain from sex for half the year if we faithfully follow the church calendar. Add to that any days prior to having Holy Communion (assuming they are not days we are already fasting) plus the other days when you are just plain too tired or simply not in the mood. Consider also that couples who already have children may find it difficult to find some time alone on many of the days they are not fasting (I speak from experience )

Anyway, I hope this puts it a little more in perspective

God bless,

John

 

[prodromos]

The original reply to my question asking (apologetically and as politely as I could) if it was true that celibacy was required/strongly suggested in marriage after the desired number of children

Do we decide what God's will is for us regarding how many children we have or do we let God? There are families in Greece, albeit rare these days, with seven or more children, some with more than ten. They are not earning more than your average family income yet they have everything they need. They have faith and God provides

God bless,

John.

 

[Yana]

Dear Selene,

I'm sorry if I offended or confused you. In no way I meant to say that you or your friends are slandering Elder Ephraim. He is so dear to me that I just naturally try to defend the Elder everytime I talk about him.

Please forgive me.

With love in Christ,
Yana

 

[countrymousenc]

I am really confused. If sexual intercourse should be only for having children, or only engaged in with the possibility of having children, then what do Orthodox couples do after childbearing years are over? And how is this reconciled with Paul's instructions:

1 Corinthians 7:

3. Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
4. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
5. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 

[prodromos]

what do Orthodox couples do after childbearing years are over?

Abraham and Sarah?
Zechariah and Elizabeth?
Joachim and Anna?

yeah, I know they were the exceptions.

Speaking personally, I hope as I and my wife grow older that our love for God and for each other will deepen and mature to the point where the question would not even enter our minds. In heaven, we will be like the angels, and not given in marriage. We will be in actuality siblings in Christ and of Christ, and though this won't be made complete until our resurrection, our life on earth should always be moving in that direction. Our aim in this life is to acquire the Holy Spirit, and as husband and wife we should be doing our utmost to aid each other in this venture.

I believe that as we put off our old flesh and put on Christ, that in time the question will simply become irrelevant. Then again, God may wish to bless you with more children in your old age

God bless,

John.

 

[MariaRegina]

Well, this is curious, and confusing. The original reply to my question asking (apologetically and as politely as I could) if it was true that celibacy was required/strongly suggested in marriage after the desired number of children, I thought was a basically affirmative reply - or at least for those who were spiritually mature enough, and that sex even in mariage was a selfish act unless it was for kids.

Now there is a response to my query saying "Blessed are you when men revile and persecute you", leaving me with the impression that those who say (like my friend) that their priest told them sex was only for procreation are slandering and reviling Elder Ephraim.

Of note, Saint John of Kronstadt and his wife did not take vows of celibacy, and his wife even brought him before the church authorities because she wanted children.

Well, my question is unanswered but I guess I should mind my own business. (I like Nicodemus' answer and hopefully that reflects reality, and maybe my friend's priest was an exception. But really, it is none of my business.) Forgive me.

In Christ,
Selene

Dear Selene:

Where did you read about the wife of St. John of Kronstadt taking her saintly husband before the authorities? I read two highly recommended biographies of St. John and this was never mentioned. One was published by the Greek Archdiocese. St. John mentioned to her on his wedding night that he wished to remain a virgin and to dedicate his life to God in virginity and she agreed.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[prodromos]

Dear Elizabeth,

the book my wife read on St John of Kronstadt (which is in Greek) states that she was devastated on learning his desire after their marriage because she dearly wanted to have children. Her love and devotion to him was stronger than her own desire however and she eventually came to terms with it. Though I have not read the book myself, St John's wife (Elizabeth, wasn't it?) taking him to the church authorities over this would not have surprised me. I remember reading somewhere that there is a possibility of her being canonised as well. Does anybody know anything more about that? She certainly must have been a remarkable woman.

God bless,

John.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Elizabeth,

the book my wife read on St John of Kronstadt (which is in Greek) states that she was devastated on learning his desire after their marriage because she dearly wanted to have children. Her love and devotion to him was stronger than her own desire however and she eventually came to terms with it. Though I have not read the book myself, St John's wife (Elizabeth, wasn't it?) taking him to the church authorities over this would not have surprised me. I remember reading somewhere that there is a possibility of her being canonised as well. Does anybody know anything more about that? She certainly must have been a remarkable woman.

God bless,

John.

There was a website that mentioned that she was being considered but then someone else told me that it wasn't legitimate. So, I don't know.

Maybe Tikon would know?

 

[Selene]

I would like to thank everybody for their kind and thoughtful replies. Regarding St. John of Kronstadt's wife taking him before the church authorities because she wanted children, unfortunately I can't remember where I read or heard that, as it was in my first few years of Orthodoxy quite a while ago (I was baptized in the Russian Synod and he was/is one of my favorite Saints). But I do remember a friend thinking it was chauvinistitc that the church authorities sided with Saint John and not his wife (of course I didn't agree).

God Bless,
Selene

 

[Euthymius]

I saw Elder Ephraim in 1998. He has an energy around him. I knew the moment I saw him walk in the church ( his back was facing me ) that it was him. He is so humble and pius. He sounded like a little child when he spoke. His body is on earth, his mind is in Heaven. This is difficult for us sinners to understand. Let us thank God for granting us such a rare and precious jewel. However, let us keep our eyes on Christ. It's all about Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords. Let us love one another equally. Don't pay special favors to the rich and educated. Jesus chose low members of society to be his apostles. All are welcome. There are no Greeks, Russians or Americans in God's eyes. We are either children of God, or we aren't.

Euthymius ( a dumb convert who doesn't know anything )

 

[Georgios]

People, you have questions about Elder Ephraim. Why don't you have a trip in Arizona? Meet this holy man and then express yourself.

 

[Photini]

People, you have questions about Elder Ephraim. Why don't you have a trip in Arizona? Meet this holy man and then express yourself.

That would be great!

 

[petrso53]

I think it's interesting that, although the Ephraim monasteries and convents fall under GOA jurisdiction, they are not mentioned on the GOA web site. I mean, there are 16 of them, and they're not listed on the archdiocese web site?

Neither are they mentioned in the Orthodox Observer, the archdiocese newsletter that goes out to GOA families in the U.S. Millions of dollars go into the building of these monasteries--last I heard it was 10 million for the convent in Kenosha, Wisconsin--and they aren't featured in the GOA newsletter?

It was posted here that the writer is thankful for such monasteries, but look at the money that could be going into parishes, into the seminary in Brookline (where incidentally the number of young men enrolling for the priesthood is dropping while the number of young men becoming monks is increasing), and into GO charities. These monasteries and convents do no charity--they just build monasteries, make religious trinkets, and host the pious who want a retreat.

Read Paul Cromidas' articles on the Orthodox News web site for more information:
The Ephraim Question
Yes, Investigate the Monasteries!

 

[countrymousenc]

Perhaps it could be argued that the pious sometimes need a retreat, and providing one is an act of charity. However, if the appeal of monasticism is reducing the number of priesthood candidates, that is cause for concern.

 

[prodromos]

Maybe there are fewer candidates for priests, but look at all the future bishops they will be producing

John.

 

[countrymousenc]

Well, now, that's true.

Doesn't Orthdox monasticism have a history of charitable activity?

 

[prodromos]

These monasteries and convents do no charity--they just build monasteries, make religious trinkets, and host the pious who want a retreat.

I honestly believe if it wasn't for the constant prayer and intercession of these monks and nuns (around the world), that the world would be a much, much worse place than it is today. You seem not to understand that these people have taken on a much more serious role on our behalf. They are fighting on the front lines of the spiritual battle that rages around us. If you don't understand that, then my friend I'm afraid you don't know the first thing about Orthodox monasticism.

Also, who are you to judge what people do with their money? If they wish to donate to the work of the monasteries then that is their business. If the seminaries are struggling then it is up to people like you or rather the bishops, to raise awareness in the parishes so they will know to support them financially.

Finally, men don't choose to become priests. God calls them. If there aren't enough men entering the priesthood then that is something we have to take up with God.

God bless,

John.

 

[petrso53]

It's also interesting to me that any time someone questions Ephraim's monasteries or the fact that the GOA doesn't know what to do with this growing problem, the questioner is accused of "not knowing the first thing about Orthodox monasticism." I am not questioning Orthodox monasticism; I am questioning Ephraim's brand of Orthodox monasticism. I understand callings and the quest for a simple, reflective life, but what I don't understand is the personality cult that has grown around this particular monk. I have spoken with families who have lost their family members to this cult. I say "lost" because these novices have been told to adhere to Luke 14:26.

Cult literature abounds in criteria that identifies a cult, and this one fits so snugly into these criteria that one must question: isolation or distance from friends/family, loading the language, control of sleep and food, thought control, and strict obedience. How are the novices cultivated? The elder does this by his own interpretations of the Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers and by pointing to certain patristic statements found chiefly in the Ladder of Divine Ascent (e.g. 4:121, "It is better to sin against God than against our father").

Novices and monks are led to believe that total obedience is a monk's only path into the Kingdom of Heaven and that a monk can gain access to God only through his elder; they are led to believe that their belief in God and their belief in their 'elder' are one and the same; they are led to believe that if they disobey their 'elder' by any action or even thought, they have disobeyed and betrayed God and are therefore no better than atheists unless they repent, that is, obey.

I believe there is much for concern here.

God bless,
Petros