Elder Ephraim

[MariaRegina]

Dear Milty:

Isn't there a difference between the Leadership 100 and the OCL? The OCL (Orthodox Christian Laity) sent me and all the subscribers of the Orthodox Observer without permission three rag sheets that attacked both Archbishop Sypridon and Father Ephraim in the same "newspaper." The OCL wasn't punished for using the Orthodox Observer without permission. They were merely forgiven without offering any apologies. Shame.

 

[Reader Nilus]

The original mission of The Greek Archdiocese in America and continues to be the building of parishes. With the ever increasing number of Orthodox faithful the building of parishes and communities of worship is always going to be the primary focus.

The building of monastic communities is wonderful and thank God for instilling this gift into Father Ephraim. But the monasteries do not belong to him. There is one father in the Archdiocese and that is Archbishop Demetrios. As Greek Bishop in the America he is the authority, and not Metropolitans or auxiallry Bishops or even Father Ephraim. Due respect is given to these people as due respect is given to any member of the community.

The heart of the Orthodox faithful is and always will be the parish community. It is, and should be, in the parish communities where the faithful are baptized, are married and participate in all the Sacraments of the Church. The Monastic communities are the "spiritual conscience" of the Faith but are not the guides of the Church.

I also think it is a little naive to believe that organizations like the Orthodox-Clergy Association (Leadership 100) are using their influence in the Archdiocese to bring slander against Father Ephraim. Or the rumours that the Leadership 100 group brought the dethronement of Archbishop Sydridon as it was them that insisted so much in bring an American-born Bishop to the throne of the American Archdiocese.

As hard as people also do not want to believe that we must also deal with the "politics" involved in the organization of the Church. We can't simply dismiss it as a something bad or something that is ruining the Church. Far from! It is organizations from the simple Parish Councils and Ladies Benevolent Societies up to IOCC and Mission Groups, and yes, Leadership 100 that sustain the work and the Church as we see it today. In all its glory!! Thank God for these wonderful people! These wonderful people that keep the maitainace of the Theological Academies, Sunday Schools, charity work in the communities and abroad with the supplying of foods, books and the building of Churches!

Once people start thinking that there is a "Kabal" working within the Archdiocese then all this wonderful work that I mentioned above by these people is slandered as well. The Church does not keep secrets from anyone, as it is the Truth of God that we possess.

I also find it disheartening to read that Greeks were never proponents of monasteries. I do not know where should misguided comments like that come from and I am sadden to read them. When one begins to read some history one will quickly learn that the Typikon followed by the Orthodox Church was developed in GREEK monasteries.

I urge people to use caution when dealing with this kind of topic. It is not an easy thing to understand. We must look at the Church as a whole and not to break it down into parts. The Church functions and exists as a whole as a united entity reflected in the Holy Trinity!

Milty

The original mission of The Greek Archdiocese in America and continues to be the building of parishes. With the ever increasing number of Orthodox faithful the building of parishes and communities of worship is always going to be the primary focus.
That is all well and good, but Orthodoxy has always grown via the monastics. Russia and Alaska are prime examples of how the light of Christ in Orthodox Monastics converted the pagans to the Truth. For health of the Church in America, Orthodox Monasteries are a must and not an after thought. When I became Orthodox there were some GOA female monasteries and if one wanted to be a monk you need go to the OCA or ROCOR.
Greeks in Greece have a fine monastic tradition, but the GOA does not, and the OCA and ROCOR are the only ones with long standing monastic communities. St Tikhon's and Holy Trinity have been long standing communites here.
Jeff the Finn

 

[MariaRegina]

Great post Jeff.

Dear Milty:

Our church should be focused on repentance, not on building physical structures. What's unique in Greek Orthodoxy in America is that the first building to be built is generally not the Church but the social hall. I think someone has got their priorities backwards.

Within Orthodoxy, everyone of us is called to practice the Christian life, which is a life of sanctity, self-denial and continual repentance. Christ calls us to be perfect as Our Heavenly Father is perfect. We cannot be minimalists as Christ condemns the lukewarm. The monks are on fire in living the Christian life. Oh, that more of that zeal would rub off on us!

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[mtown]

The first missionaries in the Americas were not building Monasteries. "Monks" that came here in 1794 were priest. Even if they came from a Monastery, not every monk is a priest! St. Herman was a priest first, and help build parishes in Alaska not Monasteries. Fort Ross, was not a monastery either, but a community of Russian-Americans that contained a parish community. This goes the same for all Russian missionary work in Siberia, China and the islands that surround the Northern Asian-Pacific coast.

The first Greek Orthodox to the Americas were not monks but priests that were called to the Americas to tend the Greek Orthodox faithful.

Plus, if someone chooses to be a monk, the monastery is not located around the corner from the local 7-11. The Monastic life is a journey of a continual baptism! and remember not every monk is a priest! and monks that are acknowledge as well, that they are ministers in a "special" parish community.

I credit the role of the Monasteries to the development of the Orthodox Faith. But it is not central to the spread of the Orthodox Faith. The missionary work is an apostolic mission, asked by each and everyone of us to be ministers of the Gospel of Christ.

I will not get into the break down of how the Greek Orthodox Clergy-Laity association is made. It is too long to explain in the post and not worth explaining in the forum. I will only reiterate what I wrote in my last post. We must look at the Church as a whole and not to break it down into parts. The Church functions and exists as a whole as a united entity reflected in the Holy Trinity! At the same time must be willing to pray for the mercy of the Lord for all peoples shortcomings. We must not judge them outrightly as we become hypocrites ourselves. For when we "Shame" those we fail to look at our own shortcomings. The only sinner you can acknowledge is yourself. Whatever Father Ephraim has been accused of, he must also be aware of his own sinful nature.

My discussion of this topic is over.

Milty

 

[Reader Nilus]

The first Greek Orthodox to the Americas were not monks but priests that were called to the Americas to tend the Greek Orthodox faithful.

The first Greek Orthodox in America were lay folk that were faithfully served by the Russian Orthodox Church in America. The only reason for a GOA was the Russian Revolution. The Russian Revolution came and went, but jurisdictions in America are still here, and their reason for existence is over. St Herman and 4 others came from where else, Vaalam Monastery a center of Athonite Spirituality in Russia! How did it work? They set up a skete, on Spruce Island and from there the Light of Christ shown forth. St Peter the Aleut was one of the first converts and his Martyrdom began to spread the seed among the Native Americans. No the first missionaries were monks and they came not to win converts, not to build anything, they came to pray, to fast, to aquire the Holy Spirit. And as St Seraphim of Sarov said, if that happens then there will be converts, and in America there were.
The Church will not grow here just by having bazaars and selling ethnic food. It will grow by the light of our monastics.
Jeff the Finn

 

[MariaRegina]

The Church will not grow here just by having bazaars and selling ethnic food. It will grow by the light of our monastics.
Jeff the Finn

Dear Milty:

People are spiritually hungry. They go to monasteries to find silence where they can find the answers to problems that life presents. Unfortunately many of our Orthodox Priests do not know how to help people, so they refer our faithful to shrinks who can only prescribe drugs to deaden their consciences. One priest told me that many Greeks are alcoholics and that we have a serious problem with spousal abuse here in the USA. Greeks don't want to go to AA because they are ashamed, so they drink in solitude. Shrinks admit that they don't have the answers yet are willing to charge people $200+ per hour just to talk. Only God can cure a sick soul. And Holy Confession is the best medicine not psycho-babble.

The popularity of The Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos Markides proves that people are seeking the truth. This is a book written about Hieromonk Maximos who came to Cyprus to build a monastery -- not a church. The people are flocking to his monastery -- so now he is building a drug rehabilation center because of the serious alcohol and drug problem on Cyprus. He discovered that if you put addicts into a monastic environment, they can be changed by the power of God. Father Maximos was falsely accused by the Greek masons of Cyprus, but he was vindicated in the end.

Unfortunately masonry has always been at enmity with monasticism. I think that this may be the real crux of the problem between the OCL (Orthodox Christian Laity) and Father Ephraim.

Have you ever read, "The Illness and Cure of the Soul in the Orthodox Tradition" by Metropolitan Hierotheos. The Metropolitan says that the Orthodox prayers, sacraments, and liturgies are designed to cure the soul. Who are the monks? They are laity who have a sincere desire to be cured of their illnesses and become whole through repentance. Only a very few monks ultimately become priests. Monks enter the monastery to repent and pray.

Sincerely in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Perhaps the attacks on Father Ephraim have everything to do with the fact that we are living in the endtimes. See this attached prophecy by the desert father, Abba Pambo.

PROPHECIES by Abba Pambo (Speaking to One of his Disciples)

...And I'll tell you this, my child, that the days will come when the Christians will add to and will take away from, and will alter the books of the Holy Evangelists, and of the Holy Apostles, and of the Divine Prophets, and of the Holy Fathers. They'll tone down the Holy Scriptures and will compose troparia, hymns, and writings technologically. Their nous [intellect, mind] will be spilled out among them, and will become alienated from its’ Heavenly Prototype. For this reason the Holy Fathers had previously encouraged the monks of the desert to write down the lives of the Fathers not onto parchment, but onto paper, because the coming generation will change them to suit their own personal tastes. So you see, the evil that comes will be horrible.

Then the disciple said: So then, Geronda, the traditions are going to be changed and the practices of the Christians? Maybe there won't exist enough priests in the Church when these unfortunate times come?

And the father continued: In these times the love for God in most souls will grow cold and a great sadness will fall onto the world. One nation shall face-off against another. Peoples will move away from their own places. Rulers will be confused. The clergy will be thrown into anarchy, and the monks will be inclined more to negligence. The church leaders will consider useless anything concerned with salvation, as much for their own souls as for the souls of their flocks, and they will despise any such concern. All will show eagerness and energy for every matter regarding their dining table and their appetites. They'll be lazy in their prayers and casual in their criticisms. As for the lives and teachings of the Holy Fathers, they'll not have any interest to imitate them, nor even to hear them. But rather they will complain and say that "if we had lived in those times, then we'd have behaved like that". And the bishops shall give way to the powerful of the world, giving answers on different matters only after taking gifts from everywhere and consulting the rational logic of the academics. The poor man's rights will not be defended, they'll afflict widows, and harass orphans. Debauchery will permeate these people. Most won't believe in God, they'll hate each other and devour one another like beasts. The one will steal from the other, they'll be drunk and will walk about as blind.

The disciple again asked: What can we do, in such a state?

And Elder Pambo answered: My child, in these times whoever will save his soul and prompt others to be saved will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Juice]

Dear Chanter...

your comment:

What's unique in Greek Orthodoxy in America is that the first building to be built is generally not the Church but the social hall. I think someone has got their priorities backwards.


is a terrible cheap shot at the Greek Orthodox communities of the Americas.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Chanter...

your comment:

What's unique in Greek Orthodoxy in America is that the first building to be built is generally not the Church but the social hall. I think someone has got their priorities backwards.

is a terrible cheap shot at the Greek Orthodox communities of the Americas.

Please forgive me.

I also go to the Greek Orthodox Church.

 

[Juice]

It's not forgiveness from me that you should be asking for. You seem to have shaken up someone on this forum enough to drive him off. That just baffles me.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Juice:

He was attacking Father Ephraim on hearsay. We lost Photini because of that. So two people left and Photini has been here a long time. We miss her.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

There should be room for disagreement, It should not make one want to leave. At the end of the day, we are all Orthodox Christians, and that should be the true bond that keeps us all together.

 

[Juice]

That makes no sense at all. What happened to simple decency?

The comments that I read about Elder Ephraim about him had validity to them. He was not attacking Elder Ephraim, but thats what happens to people when Christ in the Church becomes distorted.

And I agree with him. The things I have heard about Elder Ephraim, and the way that people talk about him is not very Orthodox-like. And I know several people that have gone down to Arizona to see him and they lose all focus in their community. They start complaining that that is not how it's done with Elder Ephraim. There is a real reason why Elder Ephraim has been not allowed to come up here to Canada, and many people are angry at the Metropolitan Bishop. I think he did a good think, people should prioritize themselves again in the Church. This is only strengthened by the fact that now several Metropolitans Bishops have not allowed him either to enter into their jurisdictions.

I surprised that this does not worry people when it comes to Elder Ephraim.

 

[MariaRegina]

That makes no sense at all. What happened to simple decency?

The comments that I read about Elder Ephraim about him had validity to them. He was not attacking Elder Ephraim, but thats what happens to people when Christ in the Church becomes distorted.

And I agree with him. The things I have heard about Elder Ephraim, and the way that people talk about him is not very Orthodox-like. And I know several people that have gone down to Arizona to see him and they lose all focus in their community. They start complaining that that is not how it's done with Elder Ephraim. There is a real reason why Elder Ephraim has been not allowed to come up here to Canada, and many people are angry at the Metropolitan Bishop. I think he did a good think, people should prioritize themselves again in the Church. This is only strengthened by the fact that now several Metropolitans Bishops have not allowed him either to enter into their jurisdictions.

I surprised that this does not worry people when it comes to Elder Ephraim.

We are not to judge -- and you just admitted that you are judging Elder Ephraim on hearsay. Furthermore, the OCL has published hearsays - not a reputable group -- and to be attacking a priest!

His Eminence Metropolitan Anthony of Oakland, California, has personally been to Father Ephraim's monasteries. In fact, the Metropolitan had a retreat for Priests at the monastery in Florence, Arizona. I don't know any priests who attack Father Ephraim except those allied with the OCL.

Again, why do you believe hearsay and gossip.

 

[Reader Nilus]

Just a little report about what happened to me one year at the Feast of the Dormition at the Assumption Greek Orthodox Church in Seattle. I was a tonsured reader and it was a weekday, so the Washington State Orthodox Churches all celebrated at the Assumption Church being it was their feast day. I got there early for the hours and drove into their parking lot and parked and was walking to go into the temple when I was greeted by one of the members there with this, "You don't go to our church!" I bite my tongue as I was going to recieve the Holy Mysteries. I told my priest about the greeting. He passed that on to the Assumption priest, and the next time I was in a Greek Church the welcome was far different.
There are devout Greeks, but the impression a great many people recieve from the Greek Orthodox is that they are far more concerned about being a Greek folk church than being Orthodox.
Nothing on this thread should have shaken anyone up. It was the witness of places like the Holy Mountain and St Catherine's that convinced me of the Truth of Orthodoxy and its living Spiritual Tradition. Fr Ephraim represents that Tradition here, so I will defend his work.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Juice]

goodness gracious..... what has happened to the Orthodox faithful?

Elder Epharim... OCL.... blah... blah...blah.... and again I am not judging Elder Epharim on heresay, I am making note of the people that have gone to see him. I personal have never met the man. And I have really no intention of doing so. Not because I don't like him. I love him like I love all people. The image of Christ is in all of us. Christ is the Church and the center of everything!!!

 

[MariaRegina]

goodness gracious..... what has happened to the Orthodox faithful?

Elder Epharim... OCL.... blah... blah...blah.... and again I am not judging Elder Epharim on heresay, I am making note of the people that have gone to see him. I personal have never met the man. And I have really no intention of doing so. Not because I don't like him. I love him like I love all people. The image of Christ is in all of us. Christ is the Church and the center of everything!!!

I once talked with Father Thomas Hopko during a retreat about this judging of priests. He said it is tearing our church apart. When you attack a priest, you are attacking Christ. St. Ignatius of Antioch says the same thing. By believing hearsay, as you are doing, you are cooperating with evil.

Father Thomas Hopko said that we should personally write or visit a priest who is being defamed. Why haven't you? Who are these friends of your? Sorry, I would not accept a friend's account. I would personally investigate.

Again, all the priests and laity I know who have visited Father Ephraim say that he is a living saint. His gaze pierces into their very soul. He draws them into repentance. However, since Father Ephraim follows Orthodox Traditions, he is known as a strict confessor. He follows the rules. For this he is attacked.

 

[Anastasia]

Great post Jeff.

Dear Milty:

Our church should be focused on repentance, not on building physical structures. What's unique in Greek Orthodoxy in America is that the first building to be built is generally not the Church but the social hall. I think someone has got their priorities backwards.

My goodness, if you could just see the mess at our church you would cry. The social hall is run seperate from the church as it's own business. The church council consists of a family that has been 'in power' for many years, and also controls all the monetary business of the church, including the hall. Anyway, they've made some poor monetary decisions, namely spending money on things like new doors, which was just frivolous and best suited serving those in need or at least, contributing perhaps newer supplies in Greek school or some other such things. The money has mostly been spent on vanity, with the addition of more icons, and yet the raise which was promised to father has not been delivered. The council cannot stand him, they've tried so very hard to make his life miserable, they've even gone so far as to trying to have him removed. Why? Because father has tried to guide them in their spending, because he has tried to correct some of the members in their misinformation (like taking communion only once a year and other things regarding the faith), and they simply don't like someone coming in and 'telling them what to do'. It is quite sad, you should see our monthly bulletins. It seems as if these last few have letters from the council president urging unity and peace, urging families which have left because of this petty arguing to return, and yet the council are the very ones badgering father, refusing to pay him what he is rightfully due! I just don't understand it all, not one bit. All I know is that father is a great person and his only crime was trying to help the council make wiser monetary decisions and trying to correct misinformation among some in the congregation. I suppose people just prefer doing things their own way and doing things for cultural reasons, rather than doing things the Orthodox way. Sad indeed.

In Christ,
Anastasia

 

[MariaRegina]

"I surprised that this does not worry people when it comes to Elder Ephraim." -- Juice

Dear Juice:

It is the above concluding statement which colors your whole post and is disturbing, to put it mildly.

We should be praying for all those in authority in the Orthodox Church: hierarchs, priests, and deacons. We should especially pray for those who are modernists, ecumenists, and masons. There is a canon against masonry in the Orthodox Church which many people are ignoring. We are falling into complacency. We cannot tolerate evil. If we had saintly men ruling our church, we wouldn't have offsprings like ROCOR, ROAC, and HOCNA, etc.

I have met godly people in those so-called "uncanonical" churches, mentioned above, who are sincerely concerned with the direction that some of our Greek, Russian, and Antiochian Metropolitans and Bishops are taking with their ecumenism, where all religions are considered good, and where no effort is made to evangelize people and baptize them into Christ.* I wonder if this "ecumenism" has anything to do with membership in the World Council of Churches. What has been the influence of this WWC on our Holy Orthodox Church? Are we gradually capitulating? I am more concerned about those hierarchs and clergy who are modernist-ecumenist than I am with Father Ephraim who is praying that all men will come to the Truth. We need the monastics to challenge us to become repentant and to keep the faith undefiled.

*Metropolitan Philip is allowing the Department of Evangelization to do a wonderful job of evangelization in his Archdiocese. Bishop Tikhon of San Francisco (OCA) and his priests are also to be commended for their evangelical work among protestants and the Society of Mans.

BTW: It was the monastics, like St. Athanasius, who freed us from the deadly grip of Arianism. Remember that about 80 percent of the Catholic Hierarchy (pre-schism) had fallen into the Arian heresy. And the Arian heretics killed many of the Orthodox Catholic Bishops, priests, laity and monastics. I recently posted the readings in the Saints for Today thread about these martyrs. These postings come straight from the website of the Greek Archdiocese of North America with their permission.

It's interesting how you can cast doubt on Father Ephraim's integrity then deny that you did. People who visit him (and I never have, so I'm not a groupie) tell me that the Hieromonk is not a rabble rouser. All he does is encourage repentance and regular daily prayer. We can say prayers in our homes. We are encouraged by St. Paul to pray ceaselessly. All Father Ephraim is doing is telling people to pray, follow the Holy Scriptures, and our Holy Traditions. Is there anything wrong with that? Let's start praying for our leadership as Father Ephraim does.

Our God is a God of wonder.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Juice]

Arianism? where in the world did that come from? That point has nothing to do with this discussion on Elder Ephraim.

Now if you want to talk about schismatic Orthodox Churches, don't be fooled to think that ROCOR and Orthodox Churches that call themselves "True Orthodox Church of...." are this way because Ecumenical differences with the other Orthodox Churches.

ROCR, still levels charges against Patriarch Alexy that his is a communist. The will not accept the canonization that St. Tikhon of Moscow because they also believed that he was a puppet to the Community regime. These "Orthodox" Churches have blinded themselves because of the puffed up pride. The use reductionary arguements to justify their position without recognizing the first that Christ is the Orthodox Church.

Even that article published in the post notes that Elder Ephraim was inrformed not to be involved with monastic communities in the Americas associated with the ROCOR.

I just wanted to highlight and make clear that you should not elevate priests and monks to some loftier ideal of Orthodoxy.