ECLA LCMS personallity test

[JacksLadder]

Would a person who is o.k. with women pastors but not o.k. with homosexual practices or illegal immigration and likes letting scripture interpret scripture be more welcome with the ELCA or the LCMS?

 

[filosofer]

Howdy.

ELCA. LCMS, AALC, WELS, and ELS do not ordain women to the pastoral office.

 

[Till]

homosexual practices or illegal immigration

What has the acceptance of homosexuality as an alleged non-sinful behaviour by a church and the ruling on immigration by a government got to do with each other?

 

[JacksLadder]

What has the acceptance of homosexuality as an alleged non-sinful behaviour by a church and the ruling on immigration by a government got to do with each other?

In the U.S. the answers given to these questions when juxtaposed will generally tell you a lot about the non written views of a given denomination.
I am not looking for clear cut answers but want to see the thought patterns of the Lutherans on this board.

BTW... I went to a ELCA(The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) church this morning and they had a woman as a pastor. The service was great

Is this a trivial post.... yes ,but it is me getting better acquainted with the Liberal and Conservative Lutheran wings

 

[JacksLadder]

I also believe in evolution.

 

[wildboar]

I think you would probably find a pretty wide range of views on illegal immigration and how to handle it pastorally in the LCMS.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Man's theory on evolution is opposite of Biblical view of Creation. It is my understanding that there are more ELCA members believe in evolution than LCSM and WELS members.

 

[DaRev]

Howdy.

ELCA. LCMS, AALC, WELS, and ELS do not ordain women to the pastoral office.

Your punctuation is confusing.

The ELCA does ordain women, contrary to Scripture.

 

[DaRev]

I also believe in evolution.

One who believes that Scripture interprets Scripture cannot belive in evolution. The two are directly opposed.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

It sounds like you would be a frustrated ELCA member. Certainly there are people in the LCMS who believe in evolution or ordaining women (I've known some), but I would say that in general it would be easier to be an ELCA member with some views more conservative than the denom than being an LCMS member with views a bit more liberal than the denom (I've been both).
But one thing to consider is the views of the LCMS will be more lasting and stable, that is, you will know what you disagree with and since they do not revisit or consider as many changes there is not the issue of the synod moving in a direction you further dislike. The ELCA is a constantly fluxing denom moving in a steady liberal direction (at least at the synodical level).
In terms of the scripture interpret scripture, both will claim this, they both will accuse the other of not doing it (or at least not doing it as well).
As to the immigrant thing, people very on this ever debated topic. But I will note that the ELCA being involved in social justice would generally seem to be more apt to speak out for the sake of the immigrant, but I am speaking only in terms of their trends towards social justice. I am unaware of any specific stance or statement on this issue.
The other thing to consider is the parishes near you. I am unsure of your locale so maybe you're in an area filled with both ELCA and LCMS churches, but if you are in an area of only one or two of each it is worth while going to the churches, meeting the people, speaking with the pastors, worshiping. You might find that your local churches might or might not represent their synod within what we might call the stereotypes of the ELCA and LCMS and that could change your persepectives completely.
Hope that helps.
Pax

 

[JacksLadder]

One who believes that Scripture interprets Scripture cannot belive in evolution. The two are directly opposed.

Not really....depends on your reading of the word day/age. I use the old earth creationist approach Where day = age.

 

[JacksLadder]

It sounds like you would be a frustrated ELCA member. Certainly there are people in the LCMS who believe in evolution or ordaining women (I've known some), but I would say that in general it would be easier to be an ELCA member with some views more conservative than the denom than being an LCMS member with views a bit more liberal than the denom (I've been both).
But one thing to consider is the views of the LCMS will be more lasting and stable, that is, you will know what you disagree with and since they do not revisit or consider as many changes there is not the issue of the synod moving in a direction you further dislike. The ELCA is a constantly fluxing denom moving in a steady liberal direction (at least at the synodical level).
In terms of the scripture interpret scripture, both will claim this, they both will accuse the other of not doing it (or at least not doing it as well).
As to the immigrant thing, people very on this ever debated topic. But I will note that the ELCA being involved in social justice would generally seem to be more apt to speak out for the sake of the immigrant, but I am speaking only in terms of their trends towards social justice. I am unaware of any specific stance or statement on this issue.
The other thing to consider is the parishes near you. I am unsure of your locale so maybe you're in an area filled with both ELCA and LCMS churches, but if you are in an area of only one or two of each it is worth while going to the churches, meeting the people, speaking with the pastors, worshiping. You might find that your local churches might or might not represent their synod within what we might call the stereotypes of the ELCA and LCMS and that could change your perspectives completely.
Hope that helps.
Pax

Thanks...I have both in town. Currently church shopping Tough being the liberal of the conservatives and the conservative of the liberals.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Thanks...I have both in town. Currently church shopping Tough being the liberal of the conservatives and the conservative of the liberals.

you could always try reforming one of them.
Good luck on that one

 

[Archaenfel]

As you are a 'seeker', it should be expected that you ask questions that do not have pat answers ... or perhaps would even seem to be non-sequiturs. I personally delight in your question and encourage more.

To answer your inquiry, let me start by stating that I am LCMS:

1) The LCMS is opposed to the ordination of women. For myself I am neutral on the topic given the testimony of Judges 4 & 5 which speak of Deborah the Prophetess, who held court under the Palm of Deborah. This speaks of a woman leader of Israel in the time of the Judges who led under her own authority, and the only Judge who was also a prophet. Cross references to Judges 4:4 name four other prophetesses.

I intend no cruisade for equal rights, but if the LCMS chooses to alter their view based on this testimony I have no objection.

2) Homosexuality is wrong - see the ELCA sexuality thread for my views on the subject.

3) Illegal immigration is, well, illegal. It is a secular matter, but we should obey all laws and ordinances which do not conflict with the Divine Word of God. Because of this: while we should seek humane treatment of all people regardless of deed, laws are laws - and illegal immigration is illegal and should not be supported.

The prior message is one person's views on the matters questioned. Your milage may vary.

 

[JacksLadder]

As you are a 'seeker', it should be expected that you ask questions that do not have pat answers ... or perhaps would even seem to be non-sequiturs. I personally delight in your question and encourage more.

To answer your inquiry, let me start by stating that I am LCMS:

1) The LCMS is opposed to the ordination of women. For myself I am neutral on the topic given the testimony of Judges 4 & 5 which speak of Deborah the Prophetess, who held court under the Palm of Deborah. This speaks of a woman leader of Israel in the time of the Judges who led under her own authority, and the only Judge who was also a prophet. Cross references to Judges 4:4 name four other prophetesses.

I intend no cruisade for equal rights, but if the LCMS chooses to alter their view based on this testimony I have no objection.

2) Homosexuality is wrong - see the ELCA sexuality thread for my views on the subject.

3) Illegal immigration is, well, illegal. It is a secular matter, but we should obey all laws and ordinances which do not conflict with the Divine Word of God. Because of this: while we should seek humane treatment of all people regardless of deed, laws are laws - and illegal immigration is illegal and should not be supported.

The prior message is one person's views on the matters questioned. Your milage may vary.

I agree with everything you've said. As far as Homosexuality it is wrong and if a person is a celibate homosexual(which I believe would be acceptable) then we would not know they were homosexual.

 

[Archaenfel]

It is a sin - but through the celibate life the individual in question honors Christ's sacrifice by resisting said sinful urges. Thus his sin is no different than the legions of us who suffer every day with lustful / wrathful / slothful / gluttonous / envious / avaricous / prideful urges to resist in one fashion or another.

Any church would be blessed to have such a person in their congregation.

 

[DaRev]

Not really....depends on your reading of the word day/age. I use the old earth creationist approach Where day = age.

If Scripture interprets Scripture, then the word "day" in Genesis 1 can only mean a 24 hour day. Context is king.

 

[JacksLadder]

If Scripture interprets Scripture, then the word "day" in Genesis 1 can only mean a 24 hour day. Context is king.

The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (1980, Moody Press)

"It can denote: 1. the period of light (as contrasted with the period of darkness), 2. the period of twenty-four hours, 3. a general vague "time," 4. a point of time, 5. a year (in the plural; I Sam 27:7; Ex 13:10, etc.)."
​

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (symbols omitted)

from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), [often used adv.]:--age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, end, evening, (for)ever(lasting), ever(more), full, life, as long as (...live), even now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaineth, required, season, since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), whole (age), (full) year (-ly), younger
​

As you can see, Hebrew dictionaries attest to the fact that the word Yom is used for anywhere from 12 hours up to a year, and even a vague "time period" of unspecified length. cont....@.... -www.answersincreation.org

Check this out on the word Yom(Day)

 

[DaRev]

Check this out on the word Yom(Day)

I know all about the different uses of the word "yom" in the Hebrew. As I said before, context is king. If we use the hermeneutic of Scripture interprets Scripture, the word "yom" in Genesis 1 can only mean a 24 hour day. There is nothing in Scripture as a whole to suggest otherwise.

 

[Zoness]

Lurking this thread because it relates to me well GO MODERATES!