ECLA LCMS personallity test

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Well, either way to join the church I would expect you would have to take some type of class. Prior to which you would probably have a discussion with the pastor which would most likely better sort out your questions.

Especially in the confessional LCMS, WELS, etc.

Attending the classes in no way compels one to become a member... that's up to the Holy Spirit!

Mark

 

[wildboar]

While the flat earth thing may not have been held by all, or even most, the idea that the Sun revolved around the earth was!

I'll take some liberties with a quote I heard recently from a Roman Catholic about Freud and say, "You're quite the traditionalist! You still hold to the Copernican system." If modern science is correct, then everything is moving and the earth makes just a good a center as anything else you feel like using. It works just as well as the sun does. Just pick something it doesn't really matter.

But this whole wheeling out of the geocentric/heliocentric debate doesn't deal with the basic problems of death before the fall and Scriptural references that assume ordinary days to have ocurred during creation.

 

[JacksLadder]

Well, I talked to a LCMS pastor today on the phone. He said as long as I accept that God made the earth he is cool with me being there. He did say he just tries to remain silent on areas the Bible kept silent so he is not going to push YEC or OEC just Creation. My next church visit is going to be between the LCMS and a Baptist church down the street.

 

[JacksLadder]

Well I asked a Reformed(Calvinist)Chaplain(and big Luther fan) today what he thought about Lutheran churches. He said he loved LCMS and would attend a service at one here and there. He also told me that ELCA was no longer Lutheran but was just liberal protestant and if I wanted to be Lutherian to go with LCMS. Now this guy is a very good theologin and very intelligent so I take his word very seriously.Thoughts?

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Well, I talked to a LCMS pastor today on the phone. He said as long as I accept that God made the earth he is cool with me being there. He did say he just tries to remain silent on areas the Bible kept silent so he is not going to push YEC or OEC just Creation. My next church visit is going to be between the LCMS and a Baptist church down the street.

Gotta' love those LCMS pastors. So your signature thing says your semi-Calvinist. Are you a Calvinist when it comes to the Eucharist, because if you've never been to a Lutheran service you must know that we affirm the real presence of the Lord in, with, and under the elements of wine and bread. There is even Eucharistic adoration within the service. Ahh, the beauties of the Lutheran Church! Be sure to tell us about your experience at both churches, I'm very interested, as I've never been to a Baptist Church. Good Luck!

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Well I asked a Reformed(Calvinist)Chaplain(and big Luther fan) today what he thought about Lutheran churches. He said he loved LCMS and would attend a service at one here and there. He also told me that ELCA was no longer Lutheran but was just liberal protestant and if I wanted to be Lutherian to go with LCMS. Now this guy is a very good theologin and very intelligent so I take his word very seriously.Thoughts?

Very interesting. Truth be told we both have problems, both rooted in our leadership. Truthfully I think you'll enjoy your experience with the LCMS. IMO it's one of the best liturgical institutions we have this side of heaven! The Lutheran Service Book is a masterpiece!

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Well I asked a Reformed(Calvinist)Chaplain(and big Luther fan) today what he thought about Lutheran churches. He said he loved LCMS and would attend a service at one here and there. He also told me that ELCA was no longer Lutheran but was just liberal protestant and if I wanted to be Lutherian to go with LCMS. Now this guy is a very good theologin and very intelligent so I take his word very seriously.Thoughts?

Certainly the synod has made decisions of late that mirror other liberal church bodies in which it could be labeled "liberal protestant", although as I Lutheran I do not consider myself protestant. It also depends on what you consider Lutheran I suppose. I say that since he would not be the first one to say the ELCA is not "Lutheran", but I would disagree. While it does at times follow trends that are more on that liberal protestant spectrum, it still considers Lutheran theology at its core, it still teaches and is guided by the Lutheran Confessions, and Justification by Faith is still its central doctrine. It would certainly be considered probably more "pietistic" lutheran in its demeanor.

I also would note that ultimately the synod is not simply "liberal" but more appropriately diverse. And what many people not in the ELCA do not understand is the great disconnect between the hierarchy and the congregation. What the synod decides often in no way affects the congregational level. Two recent decisions to illuminate this would be on gay marriage the assembly said since there was no union for it layed out biblically they could not expect it of the churches (in favor of a more conservative view), but they encouraged each congregation to decide how it chooses to minister to gay couples thus allowing those who would still like to marry gays, the freedom to (for the liberals). The new statement on sexuality that is being proposed to the assembly this summer uses the concept of 'bound conscience" to allow each group to hold to various convictions on the matter.

What this means is that stereotypes of the ELCA (as in truth of any denom/synod) do in no way show the true picture or prove anything. As you encounter various ELCA lutherans in this forum you can see the diversity in them. Ultimately, if you have interest in the ELCA, you need to contact them and meet them in your area. Only among God's people can you ultimately know how the Spirit is working among them.

I would encourage you to consider the ELCA, but you sound as if you already have received a warm welcome to the LCMS and I urge you to consider how God is calling you in your interactions.
Blessings on your faith journey,
Pax

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Well I asked a Reformed(Calvinist)Chaplain(and big Luther fan) today what he thought about Lutheran churches. He said he loved LCMS and would attend a service at one here and there. He also told me that ELCA was no longer Lutheran but was just liberal protestant and if I wanted to be Lutherian to go with LCMS. Now this guy is a very good theologin and very intelligent so I take his word very seriously.Thoughts?

I would agree with that statement, but as others have replied, there are some Congregations and Pastors in LCMS that have deviated also. (I'm LCC and we have a few deviants as well.)

 

[JacksLadder]

Certainly the synod has made decisions of late that mirror other liberal church bodies in which it could be labeled "liberal protestant", although as I Lutheran I do not consider myself protestant. It also depends on what you consider Lutheran I suppose. I say that since he would not be the first one to say the ELCA is not "Lutheran", but I would disagree. While it does at times follow trends that are more on that liberal protestant spectrum, it still considers Lutheran theology at its core, it still teaches and is guided by the Lutheran Confessions, and Justification by Faith is still its central doctrine. It would certainly be considered probably more "pietistic" lutheran in its demeanor.

I also would note that ultimately the synod is not simply "liberal" but more appropriately diverse. And what many people not in the ELCA do not understand is the great disconnect between the hierarchy and the congregation. What the synod decides often in no way affects the congregational level. Two recent decisions to illuminate this would be on gay marriage the assembly said since there was no union for it layed out biblically they could not expect it of the churches (in favor of a more conservative view), but they encouraged each congregation to decide how it chooses to minister to gay couples thus allowing those who would still like to marry gays, the freedom to (for the liberals). The new statement on sexuality that is being proposed to the assembly this summer uses the concept of 'bound conscience" to allow each group to hold to various convictions on the matter.

What this means is that stereotypes of the ELCA (as in truth of any denom/synod) do in no way show the true picture or prove anything. As you encounter various ELCA lutherans in this forum you can see the diversity in them. Ultimately, if you have interest in the ELCA, you need to contact them and meet them in your area. Only among God's people can you ultimately know how the Spirit is working among them.

I would encourage you to consider the ELCA, but you sound as if you already have received a warm welcome to the LCMS and I urge you to consider how God is calling you in your interactions.
Blessings on your faith journey,
Pax

I have not ruled out ELCA just yet. I did like the one service I went to. Just the more I read the less it seems like they take firm stances on things. This dose make me a bit nervous.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

I have not ruled out ELCA just yet. I did like the one service I went to. Just the more I read the less it seems like they take firm stances on things. This dose make me a bit nervous.

If you want firm stances, particularly on a synodical level, the ELCA is probably not for you. But that does not mean its people are not filled with convictions, stances, and beliefs.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

I have not ruled out ELCA just yet. I did like the one service I went to. Just the more I read the less it seems like they take firm stances on things. This dose make me a bit nervous.

Want firm...type in anything into the LCMS.org search engine. Boom, they have a position. It's very convenient!

 

[DaRev]

There is even Eucharistic adoration within the service.

Ummmm... excuse me???

Where?

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Ummmm... excuse me???

Where?

Agnus Dei, after consecration. The Agnus Dei follows the Pax Domini, the Agnus Dei is sung by all. "The Agnus Dei (Lat. "Lamb of God") is our hymn of adoration to our Savior Jesus Christ who is truly present for us in the Sacrament. The Agnus Dei recalls the testimony of John the Baptist when he pointed to Jesus and proclaimed: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."
Oh and I'm pretty sure Luther wrote a treatise on Eucharistic adoration outside of the Divine Service...I just haven't got to reading it yet. Finals bleh.

 

[DaRev]

Agnus Dei, after consecration. The Agnus Dei follows the Pax Domini, the Agnus Dei is sung by all. "The Agnus Dei (Lat. "Lamb of God") is our hymn of adoration to our Savior Jesus Christ who is truly present for us in the Sacrament. The Agnus Dei recalls the testimony of John the Baptist when he pointed to Jesus and proclaimed: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."
Oh and I'm pretty sure Luther wrote a treatise on Eucharistic adoration outside of the Divine Service...I just haven't got to reading it yet. Finals bleh.

The Agnus Dei is not Eucharistic Adoration. It is a prayer of mercy and forgiveness in preparation for receiving His body and blood.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

The Agnus Dei is not Eucharistic Adoration. It is a prayer of mercy and forgiveness in preparation for receiving His body and blood.

So we don't adore our Lord's Body and Blood within the Divine Service after consecration? If we are worshiping the Lord at any time after consecration we are worshiping his presence within the bread and wine no?

 

[DaRev]

So we don't adore our Lord's Body and Blood within the Divine Service after consecration? If we are worshiping the Lord at any time after consecration we are worshiping his presence within the bread and wine no?

No. Christ does not give His body and blood in the Sacrament to be worshipped. He gives it into our mouths to be eaten for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

No. Christ does not give His body and blood in the Sacrament to be worshipped. He gives it into our mouths to be eaten for the forgiveness of sins.

So it is unbiblical to worship his presence in the Eucharist during the Divine Service? I don't think it could be considered idolatry, because we are worshiping the Body and Blood of our Lord...or is it?

 

[DaRev]

So it is unbiblical to worship his presence in the Eucharist during the Divine Service? I don't think it could be considered idolatry, because we are worshiping the Body and Blood of our Lord...or is it?

Does He give us His very body and blood to worship or to eat?

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Does He give us His very body and blood to worship or to eat?

Technically by worshiping Him we are worshiping His body and blood? Haha I'm so confused.

 

[wildboar]

For some reason I'm having trouble with my Libronix software and so I'm having trouble looking at the original work, but doesn't Luther have a treatise called On the Adoration of the Sacrament where he sort of encourages adoration but says its optional?