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Eating swine & other unclean animals is a work of the flesh

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Dkh587, Aug 17, 2017.

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  1. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Christ upheld the law, and fully taught it & preached it. He didn't abolish it. The Christ i believe in did not teach his followers to disobey God's law, what you are erroneously are calling "Jewish law"

    Christ obeyed God's law, and lived the life that the law teaches us to live. And we all know we are supposed to imitate Christ.

    Was Christ walking around teaching folks to eat unclean animals? Did Christ eat unclean animals? Did Christ teach disobedience to God's commandments?

    If Christ didn't eat unclean animals, didn't teach his followers to eat unclean animals, and didn't teach disobedience to God's law, are we really imitating him if he didn't do these things, & teach his followers to do the same, yet we are doing and teaching them?

    I would have to say NO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  2. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    Both of those passages that I mentioned came from the New Testament. What language was used to write the New Testament? Why even bother mentioning Aramaic or Hebrew, when you know it was written in Greek. Your argument is deliberately misleading, and you're attempting to use esoteric terms to construct a fallacious argument.
     
  3. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

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    Than our interactions are at an end, I wish you well following Jewish law and reject the law of Grace
     
  4. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Don't say I am deliberately misleading, that is calling me a liar. We don't agree so automatically I am a liar? That's why we have over 20,000 divisions in the ONE body of Messiah. As for what language the NT was written in? The answer is, mostly Aramaic, some Hebrew... a little Greek. If you want to get together and go over the Hebraic syntax we can. The idea that the NT was written in Greek is a fallacy. The language of the day in Judea was Aramaic... the Temple language was Hebrew... and the Jews who had to interact knew enough Greek to get by save for the Hellenists of course, who were already Greek raised. All of the Jewish writings from that time period (see Dead Sea scrolls for a few thousand examples) are in Aramaic and Hebrew... and the NT is a Jewish writing.

    Be blessed. :)
    Ken
     
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  5. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm a little disappointed that you were not willing to answer my questions, but no hard feelings. Peace & blessings to you
     
  6. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is a ridiculous statement. First of all, he is talking about "God's law," it is only known as "Jewish law" culturally. It is like saying, "Feasts of the Jews" and ignoring God calling them "My Feasts" or the two verses that plainly state, "these are the Feasts of the LORD."
     
  7. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    When you are intimately familiar with the requisite languages (and I'm speaking from experience here :) ) Greek is the best explanation. The NT as we have it was compiled in Greek – despite there being some Aramaic source material, predominantly in the Gospels. Aramaic Primacy for the entire NT is an untenable fringe hypothesis.
     
  8. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

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    I am sorry if I was bad to you a fellow brother in Christ. Blessings to you
     
  9. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No hard feelings. It's okay. We all want everyone to see and understand things the way we understand them.
     
  10. Nato12

    Nato12 New Member

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  11. Nato12

    Nato12 New Member

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    Sorry man,
    but I would have to take issues with two things you've said here.

    1) Christ obeyed God's law . . but was He not caught doing work on the Sabbath? (Mark 2:23, Luke 6:1-11). And another time, he intentionally did not wash His hands before eating (mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread). So if He violated those laws, then so can we, right?

    2) Are you sure that we have to do our best to imitate Christ? I know from my Bible that he was born without sin, but in sin my mother conceived me. No matter how hard I try, I'll never be perfect like Him. What am I trying for? It is like putting patches on the old wineskins; to put on the mind of Christ, I must first die
     
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  12. Anand Prabhu Antony

    Anand Prabhu Antony Member

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    That was regarding gentiles, but not swine.
     
  13. RGW00

    RGW00 Member

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    Jesus died for our sins and cleared this right of us. Of course, there are people on this forum that believe otherwise but God wouldn't forbid people of this today. If God forbid these things then I guess 99.9999% of the world is going to Hell. Because it is almost impossible to say that you have never eaten unclean meat unless it's a family value you have kept all of your life. But there are lots of health benefits that come from those that make us stronger, and God means for us to take care of those animals the way we see fit, as God gave Adam the permission to do this in the beginning of time.
     
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  14. Anand Prabhu Antony

    Anand Prabhu Antony Member

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    Romans 14: 14-17, 20-23
    Paul said: "I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself; except that to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
    Yet if because of food your brother is grieved, you walk no longer in love. Don’t destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
    Then don’t let your good be slandered,
    for God’s Kingdom is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit".
    Don’t overthrow God’s work for food’s sake. All things indeed are clean, however it is evil for that man who creates a stumbling block by eating.
    It is good to not eat meat, drink wine, nor do anything by which your brother stumbles, is offended, or is made weak.
    Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who doesn’t judge himself in that which he approves.
    But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because it isn’t of faith; and whatever is not of faith is sin".
     
  15. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    The Church would be a better place if the sheep knew what covenants where, and who they applied to and who they don't apply to.
     
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  16. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    This is a theological novelty that you've arrived at through your own reasoning. What makes you think that you know better than the entire church, which for two thousand years has said that you're wrong? How do you know that you're not one of those spoken of in 2 Peter 3:16?
     
  17. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am surrounded with some of the world's finest Koine Greek scholars. The interesting thing about this form of Greek is the Semitic undertones... it is almost Yiddish to German in the sense that the Hellenists made it their own. That said, there are many reasons why I said what I did and stand by it. This is also not the thread for a debate on languages... you are welcome to start one and tag me or send me a PM.

    Shalom and brakhot.
    Ken

    Edit - by the way, no means did I say nor think (are you trying to read my mind? :) ) that the entire NT was written in Aramaic. I don't have a primacy at all.... I said I think much of it was written in Aramaic, but I teeter between that and saying much was written in Hebrew. There were Hellenists in Judea but the disciples and Paul were not Hellenists and their views of Greek people (see the Peter and Paul dispute, also the vision God gave Peter wasn't about food it was about people... and in the immediate sense, Greek speaking Romans) were not high, in fact, at first, they were viewed as loathsome. Document after document from that time period written by a Jew is done in Hebrew or Aramaic... the problem is, we don't have a 1st century NT book. So we really don't know...

    What I teach because of this is that regardless of the original language, the mindset was Semitic, the idioms and other abstract phraseology also Semitic, and the rules of exegesis also Semitic. Context is lost, when we read the NT, without considering those things.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
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  18. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    You make a fantastical assertion in defense of your argument – one considered pseudoscience by those who are actively in the field, a fringe theory at best – and then (in all practicality) retreat from it while still insisting that you "stand by it"?

    As far as debate goes, this is a foul.
     
  19. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I just edited my post... and will cease talking to you now since I am fanatical. If you can't have an intelligent discussion without demeaning the other, then the discussions are a waste of time.
     
  20. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    I respectfully ask that you take a closer look at what I typed: "Fantastical" not "fanatical". It is quite a difference and I could see how such a mis-read would mar your opinion of my words. :)

    I'll take the time in a bit to read over your edit, as I did not see it before I submitted my response.
     
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