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Dkh587

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Im listening...
First, let me share with you the definition of the word Paul used where we see "unclean" in Romans 14:14. It's the Greek word KOINOS

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

In 2 Corinthians 6:17, we see Paul use the word unclean when he quotes God, but this time, the Greek word is different. It's AKATHARTOS.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

as you can see, there is a difference between the words. When you click the links, if you scroll down, you can see just how the 2 different words are used - you will see that in Romans 14:14, Paul was not using the word for unclean that we understand to be in reference to things like
Unclean animals. That's akathartos. Paul used koinos in Romans 14:14. And it's more properly translated as COMMON, not unclean.

ETA: I don't know why, but the links show up as "Genesis 1". I linked you to the Strongs dictionary on BlueLetterBible.org

In Acts 11:8, Peter uses both words!
 
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W2L

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First, let me share with you the definition of the word Paul used where we see "unclean" in Romans 14:14. It's the Greek word KOINOS

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

In 2 Corinthians 6:17, we see Paul use the word unclean when he quotes God, but this time, the Greek word is different. It's AKATHARTOS.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

as you can see, there is a difference between the words. When you click the links, if you scroll down, you can see just how the 2 different words are used - you will see that in Romans 14:14, Paul was not using the word for unclean that we understand to be in reference to things like
Unclean animals. That's akathartos. Paul used koinos in Romans 14:14. And it's more properly translated as COMMON, not unclean.

ETA: I don't know why, but the links show up as "Genesis 1". I linked you to the Strongs dictionary on BlueLetterBible.org

In Acts 11:8, Peter uses both words!
Paul clearly seems to be distinguishing between those who eat and those who dont. That's the context of chapter 14.

What is common supposed to mean anyway?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Wasn't Paul the one who wrote .
a big list of sins that will keep people from inheriting the Kingdom?
I guess I will look it up for ya
Nothing about pork or shellfish here

Gala 5:
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corin 6:
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
 
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disciple1

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Shalom!

This thread is only about the subject of eating unclean animals, and how they make us unclean. Paul wrote to the Galatians that uncleanness is a work of the flesh. What is one of the things we can do to make ourselves unclean? Eat unclean animals.

Galatians 5:19-21


Keep in mind, this is in regards to what God says, and not man-made traditions.

Now, we know what animals are clean and unclean because the Scriptures record God telling Moses what animals are clean and unclean. HalleluYah!

The swine, or pig, is specifically mentioned:

Leviticus 11:7



Leviticus 11:43 shows us that eating unclean animals, birds, sea creatures, bugs etc defiles us and makes us unclean.


God specifically says that we should not defile ourselves and make ourselves unclean by eating unclean animals. Even touching their dead flesh makes us unclean.

No matter which unclean animal we eat, they all have the same effect: they make us abominable, they make us unclean, and they defile us(according to God)

There are other things that make us unclean, but considering that Paul wrote more than once about uncleanness, we should heed his words in light of what the Law of God says in regards to things that make us unclean, such as eating unclean animals(which is what this topic is about)

Ephesians 5:1-5


Again, there are many more things that make us unclean, but this thread is only about how eating unclean animals makes us unclean, per the word of God.

Shalom!
Your disobeying God by calling things unclean, look.
Acts chapter 10


9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.


Look here in verse 15
“Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
 
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Dkh587

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Paul clearly seems to be distinguishing between those who eat and those who dont. That's the context of chapter 14.

What is common supposed to mean anyway?

Common is like the opposite of holy, or set-apart. For example, Aaron had set-apart/holy garments for his priestly duties

When Aaron took off his holy clothes, he would then put on his "common" clothing. It's just common. It's not set-apart. There's nothing wrong with it - it's just common (koinos)

Paul was distinguishing between people who would eat meat and vegetables, and people who only ate vegetables. Now, this was only in regards to clean meats. To Paul and 1st century believers of Christ, when he talks about meat and food, it's only in regards to clean food, not things like pork

And then he talks about people who consider things common. Most translators incorrectly use the English word unclean, but the word that should be used is common.

As you can see in Acts 11:8, Peter used both the words unclean AND common, showing that there is a difference. The translators used the right word for koinos, which is common, which is what Paul used in Romans 14:14 all 3 times where we see "unclean"

In Romans 14:14, Paul is talking about people who consider certain foods "common". Not "unclean". We are not allowed to decide whether or not we think unclean(akathartos) animals are clean, or unclean. God decided that and it's in Leviticus 11
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Gotta hand it to you, Dkh.....trolls usually don't make it over 500 posts.
Maybe he's just starved for attention.......
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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just sharing the word of God, that's all. No attention needed :)
I myself think this thread belongs on the Sabbath and Law board.....You would have a ball on it..

Sabbath and The Law

ALL READ - Law -based salvation

This is a reminder of the rules. From the Statement of Purpose of this forum:

Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer, it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)

We've had some issues with this lately. Please remember that you cannot promote the idea that the Law must be kept in order to attain salvation.
I just know that the place where I read about eating certain types of foods, or anything else mentioned in Levitical law 76 Things Banned in Leviticus (and their penalties) - ***Dave Does the Blog is not focused on in the New Testament when Jesus taught his disciples, nor in the letters written by the apostles. It seems that those are not the things we're to be focusing on now.
I guess that means this thread would be moved over there.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/are-christians-allowed-to-eat-pork-under-the-new-covenant.7765451/
 
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Dkh587

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I myself think this thread belongs on the Sabbath and Law board.....You would have a ball on it..

Sabbath and The Law

ALL READ - Law -based salvation

This is a reminder of the rules. From the Statement of Purpose of this forum:

Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer, it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)

We've had some issues with this lately. Please remember that you cannot promote the idea that the Law must be kept in order to attain salvation.
I guess that means this thread would be moved over there.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/are-christians-allowed-to-eat-pork-under-the-new-covenant.7765451/

Irrelevant.

I never said that salvation is through the law. This is how I know some of you aren't paying attention.

In fact, I've already stated that Christ is our salvation. Christ being our salvation does not mean it's okay to disobey God's law.
 
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Hank77

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All I can do is share the word of God with you - if you choose to eat abominations, despite knowing what the word says, that's between you & God. I'm not here to force you to change your eating habits, nor can I make you change them.

may those that have ears to hear, hear!
What if the Law of Moses was obsolete, then what meats could man eat?
 
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PropheticTimes

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I'm a believer of the Messiah written about in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, that was prophecied in the Law of God, and the Prophets and the Writings.

Hebrew Roots Movement ;)
 
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ToBeLoved

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Paul was distinguishing between people who would eat meat and vegetables, and people who only ate vegetables. Now, this was only in regards to clean meats. To Paul and 1st century believers of Christ, when he talks about meat and food, it's only in regards to clean food, not things like pork
Nope. Paul was the first one to sit down at the table with the Gentiles and he called out Peter for not doing the same.

You are ascribing beliefs to Paul that he did not have, nor did he make that deliniation.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Hebrew Roots Movement?
I'm a believer of the Messiah written about in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, that was prophecied in the Law of God, and the Prophets and the Writings.
So do all Christians. We just have to be careful that wolves in sheep clothing don't sneek in among us......

Galatians 2:4 Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus.
They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations.
Acts 20:29 "For I have-perceived this.
That shall be entering wolves after the departure of me, wolves, weighty, into ye, no sparing of-the shepherded/flock"

images
 
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Hank77

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So acts ch 15 was only a start with those four laws? Gentiles were free to murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, bear false witness until they went away and learnt those laws?
Doesn't sound right to me!
And years later the church reaffirmed they only asked gentiles to follow those four laws( acts ch21) so they hadn't expected them to go and learn others
Since when is stealing, murder, adultery, etc. 'Loving your neighbor as yourself?"
 
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31gH9N.9.

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I have a question. Why was Noah and his family aloud to eat all meat, even what was considered already unclean at the time.

~Every living thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.~ Genesis 9:2
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Thank you for sharing the words of Christ, even though you have taken his words out of context - he is addressing manmade tradition and how not washing your hands before you eat does not defile you.

Unclean animals was not the subject of his discussion - not washing your hands before you eat was what Christ was talking about

I suppose it would take the actual words of scripture saying Jesus made all foods clean to convince you . So here you are!

Mark 7:18-19 And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)
NASU
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Hey let's not call each other names and stuff man, he's just trying to do right and understand. You can't fault him for that

He is quoting a bible verse. the "Are you so dull?" part is part of the Bible.
 
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