Eating Pork

[thereselittleflower]

I myself tend to avoid things like Pork and seafood because the OT prohibits it and because both give me stomach problems. Today I had some sausage and I felt like I was "selling out" because I had chosen a while back to try to follow the OT dietary law. Are there any Catholics here who avoid things like pork and seafoods??

Would it be a sin to eat a food like pork that you vowed would not eat anymore??

A foolish vow needs to be repented of.

We do not live under OT laws. .. .Peter was shown that nothing is unclean. Paul taught we ar to eat whatever is sold in the market place .. there is nothing unclean.

We live under the NT now . .

 

[thereselittleflower]

Well, if food was about keeping ritual purity, and ritual purity did not equal sin... then since we do not have to keep the ritual purity laws anymore, the ritual purity restrictions concerning food do not apply, either.

Is that... okay? =/ Sensical?

They are all part of the OT law .. . .that was fulfilled, became obsolete and had virtually passed away in Paul's lifetime. It was awaiting the final judgment Christ prophesied of the coming judgment on Jerusalem . . . which was imminent to Paul's writings. Paul died shortly before the Temple was destroyed.

If it was obsolete and virually passed away then, what force does it have today for us?

None whatsoever.

Those laws were for the Jews.

In the NT Covenant, in the Body of Christ, there are no Jews. . .. meaning that there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile .. .Gentiles do not become Jews . . . Both become something NEW . . . as Paul says One New Man.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I think that it is true though, yuck

It's not a ceremonially (?) unclean animal but it's still a dirty one

Here is what Paul said:

! COR 10:23 9 "Everything is lawful," but not everything is beneficial. 10 "Everything is lawful," but not everything builds up. 24 No one should seek his own advantage, but that of his neighbor. 25 11 Eat anything sold in the market, without raising questions on grounds of conscience, 26 for "the earth and its fullness are the Lord's." 27 If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is placed before you, without raising questions on grounds of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, "This was offered in sacrifice," do not eat it on account of the one who called attention to it and on account of conscience; 29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other's. For why should my freedom be determined by someone else's conscience? 30 If I partake thankfully, why am I reviled for that over which I give thanks? 31 So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. 32 12 Avoid giving offense, whether to Jews or Greeks or the church of God, 33 just as I try to please everyone in every way, not seeking my own benefit but that of the many, that they may be saved.​

 

[thereselittleflower]

I am not Catholic, but I never eat much pork or shellfish because they are very unhealthy.

Breaking a Vow is a Sin.

That's why we are told not to make rash vows - but simply let our yeah be yeah and our nay be nay.

A rash vow needs to be confessed so absolution can come and one be released from it.

 

[thereselittleflower]

You didn't even read the other post before yours, that is rather obvious. Acts 10 is not about food at all.

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=50370915&postcount=30

Yes it is, as much as it is about the gentiles . . .. it is about the ending of the OT and its laws . .all of them .. including dietary laws.

It is about the ushering in of something new . . . the One New Man Paul speaks of in his letters, where there is no Jew or Greek anymore.... .but something NEW.

 

[thereselittleflower]

this i believe is the Jerusalem counsil regarding gentiles:

Acts 15:6-21 6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." 12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me. 14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. 15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 `AFTER THESE THINGS I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN, AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL RESTORE IT, 17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,' 18 SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO. 19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

That has to do with what Paul spoke of in the verses quoted a couple posts above this one. . . . not doing something for the sake of the conscience of others . . . . not because there was anything unlawful for Christians.

 

[stone]

that's not what's written.

 

[stone]

tlf,

Ok, why don't i eat pork?

So i hear this voice speak to me, long ago, that i must believe the word of Jesus. I don't know what this means, so i search. As i'm searching i find this place and start asking questions. Much later i decide that i need to pick a side, or denomination, because everbody is saying different things. So i was going to choose catholic, this was 4 years ago. Well, at the time, i'm asking alot of questions to the messianics and i say well, i can't figure out all these things that christians talk about because everybody says something different. They say no, don't go to the catholics because, well.. you guys know what is said about catholics.

so i hang around the messianics for awhile asking lots of questions.

Months later, i decide, i'm going to try out this not eating pork thing and if there is somthing to it, i will know, because i've seen angels and they've spoken to me, so if this is something that is good, i will know.

So i stop eating it, about a month later, as i'm waking, i hear a voice speaking to me. It's coming from above. It says, "My son, you are doing good, now fast until tonight". Imidiately, i realize, that this is the voice of God speaking to me. I think, what is it that i am doing that is good? What is it that i'm dooing that i have not done before? That's when i realize that its the pork, God spoke to me for the veryt 1st time to say to me that it's good to not eat it, so i don't.

Also, since you don't believe me, i later found a test written by Moses that says if God ever speaks to a man, let that man document a dream, etc... it's the test for a man that claims to hear from God. I pass it every time i take it. Most of the time, what happens just happens on its own, or by God, i'd say.

So, what you say and what my father says are two different things. I'd suggest you use caution when trying to teaching against what God finds appeasing.

stone

 

[stone]

That has to do with what Paul spoke of in the verses quoted a couple posts above this one. . . . not doing something for the sake of the conscience of others . . . . not because there was anything unlawful for Christians.

What you say has nothing to do with Acts 10. It has to do with Gentiles and that Peter has received word from our father, that they are also clean. Nothing about food.

 

[thereselittleflower]

that's not what's written.

Excuse me?

 

[thereselittleflower]

tlf,

Ok, why don't i eat pork?

So i hear this voice speak to me, long ago, that i must believe the word of Jesus. I don't know what this means, so i search. As i'm searching i find this place and start asking questions. Much later i decide that i need to pick a side, or denomination, because everbody is saying different things. So i was going to choose catholic, this was 4 years ago. Well, at the time, i'm asking alot of questions to the messianics and i say well, i can't figure out all these things that christians talk about because everybody says something different. They say no, don't go to the catholics because, well.. you guys know what is said about catholics.

so i hang around the messianics for awhile asking lots of questions.

Months later, i decide, i'm going to try out this not eating pork thing and if there is somthing to it, i will know, because i've seen angels and they've spoken to me, so if this is something that is good, i will know.

So i stop eating it, about a month later, as i'm waking, i hear a voice speaking to me. It's coming from above. It says, "My son, you are doing good, now fast until tonight". Imidiately, i realize, that this is the voice of God speaking to me. I think, what is it that i am doing that is good? What is it that i'm dooing that i have not done before? That's when i realize that its the pork, God spoke to me for the veryt 1st time to say to me that it's good to not eat it, so i don't.

Also, since you don't believe me, i later found a test written by Moses that says if God ever speaks to a man, let that man document a dream, etc... it's the test for a man that claims to hear from God. I pass it every time i take it. Most of the time, what happens just happens on its own, or by God, i'd say.

So, what you say and what my father says are two different things. I'd suggest you use caution when trying to teaching against what God finds appeasing.

stone

I thought as Catholics we were to listen to the Church, not our own private revelations when they are in contradiction to what the Church teaches.

Basically, you are saying that God has told you the Catholic Church is wrong . . . that it has false teaching, that it teaches falsely.

Basically, you are saying that you are more infallible in proper Christian teaching on this matter than the Church is. . .

So . . are you saying that you are going to obey what you think you hear God saying to you instead of the Church and scripture?

Hmm . . . I wonder why God told you not to eat pork, but told Paul to eat anything sold in the market place or put in front of him at a dinner party?


hmm Did Paul get it wrong too?

Are the scriptures wrong because of something "God" told you personally? Does this revelation you received trump both the scripture and the Church?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Stone, I remember when you were messianic . ..

when and how diid you become Catholic?

I'm interested as I didn't see your story . .

 

[thereselittleflower]

What you say has nothing to do with Acts 10. It has to do with Gentiles and that Peter has received word from our father, that they are also clean. Nothing about food.

You are missing the bigger picture . . it is about the New Covenant that includes the gentile, which means the OT is over, with all its dietary laws . . .

God does not contradict Himself, but you have God contradicting Himself. ..

Either you are right and the Church and scripture are wrong, Or the Church and scripture are right and you are wrong.


Which is it?

 

[Lady Bug]

I am trying to follow the part where you guys are discussing Acts 10 where Peter was talking about not to eat certain foods, and trying to reconcile that with 1 (or 2?) Cor 10:23 and the passages in Luke where Jesus declares all foods clean

after having finished the 4 Gospels, I skipped Acts and went to Romans (I've read Acts about 3 times and still can't remember so much of what I read).

 

[Crankitup]

You are missing the bigger picture . . it is about the New Covenant that includes the gentile, which means the OT is over, with all its dietary laws . . .

God does not contradict Himself, but you have God contradicting Himself. ..

Either you are right and the Church and scripture are wrong, Or the Church and scripture are right and you are wrong.


Which is it?

I don't think he's necessarily saying that there is nothing in the NT that does away with eating pork, it's just that the passage in Acts 10, is teaching something else much more important. It's not about pork.

As to your argument about "the bigger picture" of the Gentiles being included proves it - nothing in the mere fact of the inclusion of the Gentiles necessarily requires that both Jew and Gentile would be under the same rules. For instance men and women are under different "rules" in certain areas (like teaching and leadership).

Having said all that, my own belief is that scripture adequately does away with the dietary (and other) laws for all simply because Christ has fulfilled the purpose of the law. So I agree with your belief, just not in your method of proving it.

OTOH, just because the dietary laws are no longer required to be followed to be in "right standing" with God, doesn't mean some of them aren't still wise advice from a health point of view.

 

[JoabAnias]

I don't think he's necessarily saying that there is nothing in the NT that does away with eating pork, it's just that the passage in Acts 10, is teaching something else much more important. It's not about pork.

In the process of hermeneutics, these meanings in scripture are what we call both explicit and implicit truths.

The point about the fulfillment of the new covenant is just as valid as the point about not scandalizing the gentiles.

Each have many other supports in similar fashion throughout Scripture.

Its not an either or situation but a both and.

The old covenant dietary laws are fulfilled so that when in Chirst we needn't follow them explicitly.

Recommended reading:

Abolished or Fulfilled? The Mosaic Law in Relation to the New Covenant

This paper will survey the beginnings of Christian thought regarding the Mosaic Law. According to the Fathers of the Church, the Mosaic Law was not to be followed literally in its entirety now that Christ had come. Although certain parts of the Law were still to be applicable to daily Christian living, many parts, especially the ceremonial aspects, were no longer to be regarded as binding. The justification for this division of the Law and the declaration of its invalidity comes from the fathers’ belief as to the original purpose of the Law. According to the Fathers of the Church, the original purpose of the Law was twofold: first, it was a "divine accommodation" by God on account of the Jews’ sinfulness, to lead them out of their sin and idolatry; secondly, it was to prefigure the Christian covenant and the Christian life through typology and allegory. Many of the fathers develop or emphasize one or both of these two purposes, but many times they are simply intermingled without explanation. The twofold purpose, however, combine to form the basis of the patristics’ explanations of the ultimate purpose of the Mosaic Law in relation to the new covenant of Christ.

Covenant in the Old and New Testaments: Some Current Research (1994–2004)
Covenant Oath and the Aqedah: Diatheke in Galatians 3:15-18
Covenant, Treaty and Prophecy
Introduction to the Biblical Covenants
The Covenantal Structure of the Bible
The Importance of the Covenants
The Meaning of Covenant
The Eucharist Sacrifice - Banquet of the New Covenant

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, it would not be a sin.

But have you ever considered becoming Muslim?

Greetings. I am the type that will just about eat anything and I do love pork-ribs and bacon. [I don't like lima beans though ]
Heck, Rambo ate things that would make a billy goat puke!

As far as Muslims, I think they still follow a lot of the Law of Moses and this one Muslim gave this reason why they do not eat pork:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=2885502&page=44&highlight=pork

Why Christians do eat pork despite its forbidden in the bible?!!.....................................

Pork prohibited in the Bible

The Christian is likely to be convinced by his religious scriptures. The Bible prohibits the consumption of pork, in the book of Leviticus

5. Pig is the most shameless animal

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs.

 

[Lady Bug]

LLoJ is that a joke? (the last paragraph that is)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLoJ is that a joke? (the last paragraph that is)

Nope. That is how the Muslims actually view Pigs.....He seemed to be pretty serious about it.....

 

[Lady Bug]

Since they regard Jesus as a Prophet they are forgetting the line about how it's not what we eat that defiles us. But I guess they don't know that he even said such a thing - but even if they did...

I don't eat pork simply because I don't like it. I'd puke at the smell of ham. It may be a very unclean animal biologically but it doesn't taint you before God to eat it either.