Eating meat = huge risk

[Ceallaigh]

The priests of the Temple ate meat that was slaughtered and sacrificed to God at the Alter.

 

[Henric72]

I am used to think in risk VS reward. It is not very smart to eat meat when we do not need it. Perhaps people who support death and suffering will not have to pay but you can not be certain. Why do you want to take that risk?

 

[Sketcher]

I do not understand why any Christian would eat meat. It is not like we need it for survival.
How can you be sure that evil forces have not been conspiring to destroy you by making you believe murder is ok? Why would anyone sane take that risk?

I used to eat murdered animals and are now trying to make people go vegetarian. Perhaps that can help pay for my past sins.

Eating meat is not murder. Animals are food.
Jesus ate meat, and he facilitated the eating of meat. If it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

 

[Sketcher]

Let's not forget Romans 14:1-3 (which probably also comes up pretty regularly with this topic):

"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions. For one person has faith to eat all things, while another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him." ​

(Though, from a dietary standpoint, the aforementioned weakness might not necessarily lead to veggie-eating, but rather the other way around; the weakness may be due to a lack of adequate animal-protein in the diet since it has been excluded. If I recall right, it's the lack of vitamin B12, which is only found in animal and dairy products).

This existed because it is a sin to eat meat that has been sacrificed to idols, and much of the meat in the Roman markets had been sacrificed to idols (very often, leftover meat from the sacrifice would go on sale), and there were Christians who didn't want to take the risk that the meat they would eat had been sacrificed to idols.

 

[ss51]

"Arise Peter, kill and eat, that which I have called clean, call not thou unclean"

 

[Sketcher]

I could think up different ways to argue with you, but none of them might deal with what God knows is your real motive for saying this.

Jesus had the Passover supper with His disciples, and lamb is eaten during the Passover. So, of course, we can see how Satan would use evil forces to get us to suppose anyone who eats animal meat is a murderer. That would be in order to trick us into considering Christ to be a murderer.

And it could be Satan's scheme to get us to suppose all Jews who eat the Passover lamb have been murderers. So, it would be an anti-Semitic strategy, also. But I do not agree that Jews are murderers because they eat lamb meat.

But possibly there are spiritual powers who want us to accuse Jesus and Jews.

So >

Well, you are not going to pay for your sins by saying what would accuse Jesus God's own Son of being a murderer, or what means Jews are murderers.

And Jesus paid for your sins . . . so better than you could try to pay for your own.

So, be blessed by God; may God prove Himself to you.

Jews don't eat the Passover Lamb anymore, because there is no temple or tabernacle for their sacrifice of the lamb. Therefore I don't see as strong a connection for veganism as veiled anti-Semitism. But in Jesus' day, they did eat the lamb, and it was not optional. Jesus' only deviation from the Passover custom that we know about was when he took the bread and the wine, and established Communion. Hence, there is no evidence that he skipped the lamb either at that Passover, or previous Passovers.

 

[Eftsoon]

The fall certainly does denote a change in the physical nature of living beings on this planet. It's not just a matter of behavior. Rather, the change in behavior follows the change of nature from the fall.

If there was a hint in scripture that Christians should be vegans, you might have a point. But Jesus Himself is explicitly displayed as being, at the very least, pescatarian. It is wholly a man-made philosophy. Veganism falls into the category of asceticism, which Paul spoke of:

Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!?” These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.--Colossians 2

Our physical nature has changed, but this doesn't mean that we are now required to eat meat.

Asceticism has nothing to do with veganism - at least as I practice it. I do so because I am trying to be compassionate. We all believe that animals deserve our compassion. Only a moral monster would gratuitiously torture a small animal.

Christ lived at a time when veganism wasn't possible nutritionally. There was no way for them to do it without malnourishment. Today, we can. The bible can't provide specific guidance about veganism. It can of course provide us with guidance about compassion and mercy.

The point is that we're inflicting needless suffering on living beings. It's quite obvious that that is wrong. This is where the debate has to be waged.

 

[HIM]

"Arise Peter, kill and eat, that which I have called clean, call not thou unclean"

No mention of God cleansing unclean animals in those verses only the common.
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

 

[Sketcher]

Our physical nature has changed, but this doesn't mean that we are now required to eat meat.

Asceticism has nothing to do with veganism - at least as I practice it. I do so because I am trying to be compassionate. We all believe that animals deserve our compassion. Only a moral monster would gratuitiously torture a small animal.

Christ lived at a time when veganism wasn't possible nutritionally. There was no way for them to do it without malnourishment. Today, we can. The bible can't provide specific guidance about veganism. It can of course provide us with guidance about compassion and mercy.

The point is that we're inflicting needless suffering on living beings. It's quite obvious that that is wrong. This is where the debate has to be waged.

Not enough food can be produced for everyone on this planet to have a vegan diet without industrial farming. That industrial farming however, already kills countless field animals and insects so that enough grains, beans, vegetables, etc can be harvested. Animals die for humans to eat plant-based, or people starve.

 

[Eftsoon]

Not enough food can be produced for everyone on this planet to have a vegan diet without industrial farming. That industrial farming however, already kills countless field animals and insects so that enough grains, beans, vegetables, etc can be harvested. Animals die for humans to eat plant-based, or people starve.

30% of food crops are fed to animals. 55% of calories are eaten by humans.
How much of the world's cropland is actually used to grow food?

If the world turned vegan, land used for farming would be repurposed for food. There are also hydroponic solutions and a wide range of innovations that would emerge as a result of the pressing need. 75% of agticultural land is used for animals

Remember additionally that 30% of our food is wasted.


If the whole world went vegan, would there be enough plant matter to feed both humans and animals? - Quora

 

[klutedavid]

I do not understand why any Christian would eat meat. It is not like we need it for survival.
How can you be sure that evil forces have not been conspiring to destroy you by making you believe murder is ok? Why would anyone sane take that risk?

I used to eat murdered animals and are now trying to make people go vegetarian. Perhaps that can help pay for my past sins.

Jesus ate fish?

 

[Sketcher]

30% of food crops are fed to animals. 55% of calories are eaten by humans.
How much of the world's cropland is actually used to grow food?

If the world turned vegan, land used for farming would be repurposed for food. There are also hydroponic solutions and a wide range of innovations that would emerge as a result of the pressing need. 75% of agticultural land is used for animals

Remember additionally that 30% of our food is wasted.


If the whole world went vegan, would there be enough plant matter to feed both humans and animals? - Quora

And rabbits and gophers and field mice get torn apart by combines so that people can get enough soy products at the supermarket. Insects are poisoned so there are enough fruits and vegetables. Rats are killed when fields are tilled.

I personally don't care, but it presents a problem for those who claim that their avoidance of meat doesn't kill animals. I can believe that if you only eat from your own vegetable garden, but if you go to the store, animals are still dying for the food you eat.

 

[ss51]

You have to go to some fringe churches and thinking to get back under the law that Jesus freed us from, like this drivel based thread.

 

[ss51]

No mention of God cleansing unclean animals in those verses only the common.
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

What does Holy Spirit tell you? If you keep leaning on your own understanding and misuse of scripture like this you will continue to miss the mark.

 

[Eftsoon]

And rabbits and gophers and field mice get torn apart by combines so that people can get enough soy products at the supermarket. Insects are poisoned so there are enough fruits and vegetables. Rats are killed when fields are tilled.

I personally don't care, but it presents a problem for those who claim that their avoidance of meat doesn't kill animals. I can believe that if you only eat from your own vegetable garden, but if you go to the store, animals are still dying for the food you eat.

Veganism is about reducing suffering as much as possible.

 

[ss51]

and placing the creation ahead of the Creator.

 

[Sketcher]

Veganism is about reducing suffering as much as possible.

That's the intent, but just because the animals that suffer and die for plant-based crops are smaller, doesn't mean it doesn't take place.

I would also say that responsible hunting does more to reduce suffering than not hunting at all, but I have not met a vegan in favor of that.

 

[Eftsoon]

That's the intent, but just because the animals that suffer and die for plant-based crops are smaller, doesn't mean it doesn't take place.

I would also say that responsible hunting does more to reduce suffering than not hunting at all, but I have not met a vegan in favor of that.

We have to eat something. Not eating meat reduces suffering as much as possible.

Conservation can be accomplished without hunting.

 

[Sketcher]

We have to eat something. Not eating meat reduces suffering as much as possible.

Conservation can be accomplished without hunting.

Consider the ways a deer dies without hunters.

Some may die of old age, but many will die because of sickness, starvation, injury, or predation by wolves, bears, or mountain lions. Enter hunting, where the goal is to shoot it in the heart. If that shot is landed, it takes less than a second. One moment, it is feeding or standing peacefully, the next moment it's all over. Better than the terror and the pain of having it's throat ripped out, or the prolonged suffering of having it's bones crushed by a car, or of starvation. Those fates will still befall the deer, but with hunting, some of them will be lucky enough to get that clean death.

 

[RDKirk]

Consider the ways a deer dies without hunters.

Some may die of old age, but many will die because of sickness, starvation, injury, or predation by wolves, bears, or mountain lions. Enter hunting, where the goal is to shoot it in the heart. If that shot is landed, it takes less than a second. One moment, it is feeding or standing peacefully, the next moment it's all over. Better than the terror and the pain of having it's throat ripped out, or the prolonged suffering of having it's bones crushed by a car, or of starvation. Those fates will still befall the deer, but with hunting, some of them will be lucky enough to get that clean death.

Highway traffice, big time.

One summer we were driving up Interestate 270 crossing the boarder from Maryland to Pennsylvania, right at dawn, and for a few miles the deer slaughter on the highway was incredibly horrible. We had to slow down to wind around what had to be a couple of hundred carcasses on the road. During the time I was in the DC area, driving the highways through Virginia or especially Maryland at night was always dicey. You turn a curve on a wooded, mountain road and instantly there were the bright lights of a deer's eyes right in front of you.

I found that true even in the Nebraska plains if there were groves of trees here and there. Give deer just a little bit of wooded area with no major predators, and they proliferate like crazy.